Renewing my Night Currency

[Ted]

From my first night flight towards the beginning of my flight training, I knew that night flight was something that I loved and wanted to do as much as possible. Unfortunately for my love of night flying, my flying club has a rule saying that night flight is not allowed without an instrument rating.

There is one exception to this rule: You are allowed night flight within a 3 nm radius of KIPT for your night currency requirements. In other words, they give you a leash precisely long enough that you can do pattern work for your three take-offs and landings to a full stop for currency. I haven't bothered to keep up with this, seeing as night flight has been a non-issue for me. I'm just not allowed to do it. Plus, here in Williamsport in the summer it doesn't get pitch black until about 9:30 or so. So, it's been probably 4.5 months since my last night flight.

I'm approaching the end of training before my instrument check ride, meaning that before long, night flight will soon (hopefully) be allowed. Because of this, and the fact that I might have cause to go on a night flight before long, I decided last night was a good time to go up and get my night currency. Besides, it was a beautiful night and something fun to do.

I'm a believer that legal and current does not mean safe and proficient. So, my goal was to go out and do pattern work for proficiency. I started out doing touch-and-gos. On the first one it was apparent that I needed more than three landings to a full stop to renew my proficiency at this. I was high and fast on my first time around, and had a hard time spotting the runways, and this is at the airport I fly out of every time I go flying.

I was, perhaps admittedly, somewhat distracted by the beauty that is night flight. Williamsport is a small town by my yard stick (being from a town of 8 million people originally), but at night it is beautiful when lit up. Plus there were no clouds in the sky, and the stars were perfectly visibile. In the distance, I could see other planes flying along, strobes blinking. Whenever I see the strobe lights of other planes blinking from afar, I wonder who they are and what trip they're on. For a brief moment, we're sharing the same bit of heaven.

After 5 times around the pattern, I decided I was comfortable enough, so I did my three landings to a full stop, and came back in to the hangar. Now I'm night current, and I believe a bit more proficient.

My mom hasn't been flying with me yet, but supposedly next weekend will be the first time for a trip we'll be making. Sometime when I get the opportunity (probably around fall once the days start getting shorter), I want to take her on a night flight around Manhattan. She's been getting used to the idea that I'm a pilot, but the one flight she always talks about fondly is once when she was in a GA cabin class piston twin (beats me as to what it was), and it was a perfectly clear night as they passed by New York City so she saw the city lit up in its evening splendor. I'd like to be able to give her that again. Maybe we'll go in the Aztec once I get my MEL. She doesn't trust single engine planes anyway, which I think is one of the reasons why she hasn't gone flying with me yet. Silly mother.

 

[GMascelli]

I'm a believer that legal and current does not mean safe and proficient.

Ted, I feel the same way. I don't do much night flying, heck, I don't like to drive at night. I am current but as you stated not proficient to my own standards. I do get to safety pilot now and then and we run into the night time situation. This has really helped me with the 'night vision' and the comfort level is much better. Heck I'm still just a newbie at 210 hours!

Time to head to the airport, ILG-GED for lunch at the beach and some good eatin' fat crabs!

 

[Rob Schaffer]

My night currency just expired last week, and I agree as well about the safe and proficient. During my training, even though we met the requirements, I continued on to work some night flights and hood work together.

I'll probably renew my night currency in Sept or October, before the time change again. I want to get some good practice in as well before the St. Michaels Christmas weekend in December, just in case my wife enjoys shopping a little to much

 

[stingray]

Not only do I fly better at night but my landings are far smoother. When I was doing my night lessons my instructor kept taking me to smaller and smaller airports and finally with out lights at all. My landings just got better and better. (****ed him off) he was a younger CFI and he wanted to show me how hard night landings were.

I have never had trouble flying at night but then I fly mainly in the Midwest. If I fly on CC at night I fly instrument approaches at destination. One of the night flights I did over South Dakota was a little nerve racking only because there was not much for roads or town lights. I will use my GPS mapping on air and street to keep abreast of possible places to land. If you are prepared flying at night is not that big a deal. If you are not, it is a crap shoot if you make it.

I look at flying at night about like flying over water. If I don't think the plane will make it why would I take it up even in the daylight. I would think that night flight falls into the CC type of travel. High, fast, and straight. The safest kind of flight. Know your MEA's and you should have no problems. By the way I do not do night patterns I follow an approach or go straight in. If you want to practice fly between two airports.

Dan

 

[midlifeflyer]

I was a bit lucky in the night department. I enjoyed night flying from the very beginning and kept at it during the first 6 months after earning the private. Then, when I did instrument training, I did it after work, so there was a lot of night flight.

I don't manage to get up to maintain night currency all the time (especially in the long days of summer). But, probably because I had so much of it at one time, it's pretty much a non-issue.

 

[dmccormack]

Night landings can be easier as the lack of visual cues help you focus on the few that are left.

Most pilots find that waiting until tire marks are visible before level-off helps improve landings.

 

[KennyFlys]

Night landings can be easier as the lack of visual cues help you focus on the few that are left.

Most pilots find that waiting until tire marks are visible before level-off helps improve landings.

I encourage students to look down the runway, particularly the last thousand feet; not focus on the approach end any more than they should be during the day.

 

[dmccormack]

I encourage students to look down the runway, particularly the last thousand feet; not focus on the approach end any more than they should be during the day.

The AFH would suggest otherwise.....

To aid in determining the proper roundout point, continue a constant approach descent until the landing lights reflect on the runway and tire marks on the runway can be seen clearly. At this point the roundout should be started smoothly and the throttle gradually reduced to idle as the airplane is touching down.

Airplane Flying Handbook, Chapter 10, page 6

 

[KennyFlys]

The AFH would suggest otherwise.....

After a few landings, I turn off the landing light. I want them using the edge lights for judgment of height.

 

[dmccormack]

After a few landings, I turn off the landing light. I want them using the edge lights for judgment of height.

Yep -- that is SOP as well.

But initially they need to learn how to roundout in normal conditions.

The Tire marks help.

Don't ask me about lading at an airport with no lights because the PCL was out.....

 

[KennyFlys]

Don't ask me about lading at an airport with no lights because the PCL was out.....

I've not had that happen but I have gone into Gadsden, AL at night and found issues. Flying in, there's good control of PCL. But, at the approach end of RWY 6, apparently you're too far away to reach the receiver. All we had were very dim lights. Upon departure, I was able to turn the lights up after climbing fifty feet or so.

 

[Pi1otguy]

There is one exception to this rule: You are allowed night flight within a 3 nm radius of KIPT for your night currency requirements.

Is there a specific weather pattern at night like a marine layer or ovc? I know my FBO doesn't allow night flight without a specific sign off unless you have an IR due to low clouds coming of the water quite often. The inland airports don't care cause its often CAVU at night.

 

[Ted]

Nope, nights here are actually normally nice and clear, like they were on Saturday when I went up for my currency. The issue is just that they don't want people taking the plane on night VFR flights. The club leaders made this decision, and the rest of us have no say in the matter.

 

[TknoFlyer]

...my flying club has a rule saying that night flight is not allowed without an instrument rating.

What?? I've heard of conservative, but this just takes the cake.

She doesn't trust single engine planes anyway, which I think is one of the reasons why she hasn't gone flying with me yet. Silly mother.

I'm proud to say the only time my mother has ever dared set foot on an airplane of any kind is with me at the controls (of SE Cessnas, too).

But more to the point...isn't night flight just simply great?

 

[TknoFlyer]

...smaller and smaller airports and finally with out lights at all.

Don't ask me about lading at an airport with no lights because the PCL was out.....

hehe

Reminds me of this trip I made to KEZF (Elkin, NC).

"Can you land in the dark?"

 

[azure]

Nope, nights here are actually normally nice and clear, like they were on Saturday when I went up for my currency. The issue is just that they don't want people taking the plane on night VFR flights. The club leaders made this decision, and the rest of us have no say in the matter.

Wow, sorry to say this, but that doesn't sound like a club I'd want to belong to. I'm looking into clubs right now and it's good to know that some are run in such an authoritarian fashion and have such restrictive policies. Yet another question to add to the list.

Personally I think a VFR-only pilot who does a lot of flying at night is a lot safer risk than an IR pilot who rarely flies except to maintain bare currency minimums. I can't help wondering if that restriction isn't something the club negotiated with their insurance company for a better deal on group rates. Is each member responsible for their own insurance or is there a group policy that covers members that you pay into, such as through dues?

 

[midlifeflyer]

What?? I've heard of conservative, but this just takes the cake.

I'm not sure it does. A good number of countries have decided that night flight by private pilots without instrument or "night" ratings is unsafe.

I don't agree that it is, but I look for more icing to make it a cake than "we do what a lot of countries do."

 

[Ted]

What?? I've heard of conservative, but this just takes the cake.

Well, it more or less falls in line with what you have in a lot of other countries. My understanding is that we are rare in this country about allowing night VFR flight.

I'm proud to say the only time my mother has ever dared set foot on an airplane of any kind is with me at the controls (of SE Cessnas, too).

My mom flies in the big aluminum pencils all the time, she goes to Europe regularly. But she hasn't been in a GA aircraft in decades. This will be the first time for her. I think her logic is a little more involved. We know that a multi engine aircraft with a pilot who is not proficient in single engine operations is more dangerous than a single engine aircraft in case of an engine failure. My mom is assuming I'm going to be proficient in single engine ops on a multi engine.

But more to the point...isn't night flight just simply great?

You ain't kidding! I can't wait to be able to do it again.

 

[Ted]

Wow, sorry to say this, but that doesn't sound like a club I'd want to belong to. I'm looking into clubs right now and it's good to know that some are run in such an authoritarian fashion and have such restrictive policies. Yet another question to add to the list.

You'd want to be part of this club if you knew what I was paying per hour wet.

Personally I think a VFR-only pilot who does a lot of flying at night is a lot safer risk than an IR pilot who rarely flies except to maintain bare currency minimums. I can't help wondering if that restriction isn't something the club negotiated with their insurance company for a better deal on group rates. Is each member responsible for their own insurance or is there a group policy that covers members that you pay into, such as through dues?

The membership dues cover the insurance. I don't know whether or not we get an insurance break for it, but my understanding is no. I would tend to agree that a VFR only pilot who is proficient at night flight is probably safer than a legally current IR pilot who's not proficient. I know a number of pilots who are instrument rated, but they refuse to do single pilot IFR. There are others I know who won't do IFR at all, unless they get in a pinch. To me, those are the ones who are the most dangerous to themselves and others, because they aren't proficient.

 

[TknoFlyer]

...I look for more icing to make it a cake than "we do what a lot of countries do."

Well, it more or less falls in line with what you have in a lot of other countries.

This is the same argument used by some of the pro-user fee crowd. That's not a yardstick I'd hold up very far.

Regardless, my opinion is the policy is too restrictive.

 

[Ted]

This is the same argument used by some of the pro-user fee crowd. That's not a yardstick I'd hold up very far.

Regardless, my opinion is the policy is too restrictive.

Hey, I'm the one who has to deal with the restriction! I agree, it's too restrictive. My point was that I can also see their side of the argument. Ultimately, I'm paying so little to use these planes that I'll just deal with it, especially since I have no desire to be on the club's board of directors. Before long the point will become moot, anyway.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

My mom hasn't been flying with me yet, but supposedly next weekend will be the first time for a trip we'll be making. Sometime when I get the opportunity (probably around fall once the days start getting shorter), I want to take her on a night flight around Manhattan. She's been getting used to the idea that I'm a pilot, but the one flight she always talks about fondly is once when she was in a GA cabin class piston twin (beats me as to what it was), and it was a perfectly clear night as they passed by New York City so she saw the city lit up in its evening splendor. I'd like to be able to give her that again. Maybe we'll go in the Aztec once I get my MEL. She doesn't trust single engine planes anyway, which I think is one of the reasons why she hasn't gone flying with me yet. Silly mother.

Is that because she knows you are not only flying the planes, but you work for the engine manufacturer as well?

Seriously though, tell her that the view will be MUCH better from a single-engine plane - No engine nacelles in the way of the view. Even better in a high-wing.

 

[gprellwitz]

Is that because she knows you are not only flying the planes, but you work for the engine manufacturer as well?

Seriously though, tell her that the view will be MUCH better from a single-engine plane - No engine nacelles in the way of the view. Even better in a high-wing.

Even better yet in a STRUTLESS high-wing!

 

[Ted]

Is that because she knows you are not only flying the planes, but you work for the engine manufacturer as well?

Nah... it's more than she's realized after 280,000 miles of driving in the past 8 years with no accidents (despite towing cars through snow and ice) that I have an idea of how to control a vehicle. Plus, my instructor keeps on saying I'm really good, and she believes him, despite having never met him. Go figure!

Seriously though, tell her that the view will be MUCH better from a single-engine plane - No engine nacelles in the way of the view. Even better in a high-wing.

I don't like high wings and you know that! I suppose the one thing I got from my mom about vehicles was a love for twins, but that's for completely different reasons. I will always have a love affair with twin-engine aircraft... hopefully that doesn't bother my girlfriend too much.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

What?? I've heard of conservative, but this just takes the cake.

No, it doesn't, though I wish it did.

THIS takes the cake: http://www.wbair.net/Rental/RentalAgreement.pdf

Some of it's pretty standard: Must fly with them every 60 days (though 90 is more standard), no Lake Michigan overflights, etc. But the rest is just ridiculous:

* Must provide a flight plan to the FBO (including departure/arrival times) and file with FSS on every single cross country, and you have to call in any changes.
* Minimum 3000 foot paved runway
* IFR is limited to MVFR or transitioning to VFR, no actual approaches allowed, and still requires an additional IFR checkout
* Night XC requires IR (hmm, sounds familiar) or a specific night checkout
* Minimum 2 hours/day on weekdays, 3 hrs/day on weekends, with a "day" defined as 4 hours (No more $100 burger runs!)

Oh, and they claim an Arrow II's cruise speed is 165 knots. Pointed straight down, maybe!

Man, I am glad I trained at an FBO that's pretty much the opposite.

 

[TknoFlyer]

THIS takes the cake: http://www.wbair.net/Rental/RentalAgreement.pdf

You win.

H) Single engine IFR is generally allowed only for marginal VFR, and transitioning to VFR conditions, unless approved by West Bend Air Instructor at the time of flight. (Must have IFR checkout by West Bend Air Instructor in type a/c flown)

Oh am I glad I'm not a renter.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

You win.

Oh am I glad I'm not a renter.

They're not all that bad. That's the worst I've ever seen. As I alluded to, the FBO where I trained, Wisconsin Aviation, was pretty much the opposite. You could land anywhere that the FAA recognized as an airport (including private and grass), really no restrictions on what you did in the air as long as it was within the FAR's, no minimum per-day rental, and the renter covered as named insured. Doesn't get much better than that. Plus, they have a rental fleet of both Cessnas and Pipers that goes from 152's all the way up to a Seneca II.

I chose 'em for a reason... A lot of reasons, really.

 

[ScottM]

No, it doesn't, though I wish it did.

THIS takes the cake: http://www.wbair.net/Rental/RentalAgreement.pdf

Geesh.Stuff like that makes me glad I own!

The local FBO where I did a lot of my training started to pull stuff like that. I got disgusted and bought a plane. Before long other left or bought and no one was left renting from them nor taking training. They are now out of the business entirely. The other FBO on the field is booming.

 

[Ghery]

The only restrictions we have are:

1. Paved runways only. No minimum length (other than imposed by the performance charts for the planes).

2. Flights over 100 miles from OLM or over the Cascades require filing a flight plan with FSS.

3. Put the planes away with full tanks.

4. Log at least 3 hours in a 180 day period in the Arrow, or get signed off (again) by a CFI and then fly within 45 days of that signoff (insurance requirement).

But, night currency? Not in the summer around here. It stays light until after my bedtime.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

1. Paved runways only.

Booooooooooo!

 

[flyersfan31]

What?? I've heard of conservative, but this just takes the cake.

Well, maybe. Is there anything that precludes night flight with an instructor on board? Maybe the restriction is one of the reasons Ted's rental rate is so cheap (and it is CHEAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). I don't really have a problem with it - yes, night VFR is legal, but it is certainly more dangerous than day VFR. How much so, well, that gets into statistics which I won't argue about here. Still, I think it is sound decision making to require instrument proficiency for night XC flight. One man's opinion. YMMV, and that's what makes America great.

 

[Ted]

Well, maybe. Is there anything that precludes night flight with an instructor on board? Maybe the restriction is one of the reasons Ted's rental rate is so cheap (and it is CHEAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). I don't really have a problem with it - yes, night VFR is legal, but it is certainly more dangerous than day VFR. How much so, well, that gets into statistics which I won't argue about here. Still, I think it is sound decision making to require instrument proficiency for night XC flight. One man's opinion. YMMV, and that's what makes America great.

There are several reasons my club rate is so cheap, the fact that our insurance is so low is only a part of it for our yearly dues, which are what cover the insurance. I think the low insurance has more to do with us not making a claim on it in so many years than anything else. Anyways, my rate is great, nyah nyah nyah!

In my club, night flight is only allowed greater than 3 miles away if you're on a filed instrument flight plan. So, what that means to me is that if you're a CFI with an IR (but not a CFII), you can't technically take your students on their night XC. I'm not sure what the workaround is for this, but I'm going to have to find out one of these days when I become a CFI myself. The CFII I may get eventually, but certainly not immediately. I don't believe we get any insurance discount for this. The club leaders have some various arbitrary rules, some of which I can understand, others I can't. Ultimately, I continuously put the most hours on these planes every month... so I win a prize! The highest bill at the end of the month!

 

[TMetzinger]

I'd bet there's a waiver for instructional flights, Ted, as they are seen to be lower risk than solo work.

 

[dmccormack]

There's a club about an hour from here that requires the IR just to fly the Piper Archer.

Another local guy will "rent" his airplane as long as he sits in the right seat -- he's an owner, and still a student pilot.

Another FBO near the Big City nearby logs many student hours of "Taxi practice" (it's a way to bill during poor weather).

All these dumb -- in some cases illegal -- policies wouldn't be such a problem if there was actual competition, but the small flight schools and FBOs with lots of leaseback rentals have vanished.

So you put up with nonsense, do something illegal, or buy an airplane.