Renegade LSA student

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Evening ladies and gents.

We've got a person at the local airport who solo'd in a light sport airframe in October of 2014.

The person comes from a legacy family, having many different types of aircraft flown in for decades. Has it all. Except for a medical or a consistent instructor.

A few of the locals have flown with the person, and another person solo'd him. The rumor mill began, and I heard stories of him doing aerobatics in this antique LSA. One day a week ago, he told me himself that he went out one day and did ten loops.

Continuing on, it began to make me feel uneasy. One of the other students in the area was under the impression he was about to take his LSA checkride, and then I began to hear two of his mentors telling me that he had taken up a passenger (while not being certified yet).

I mulled it around, decided that I needed to confront this issue head on with him. The conversation started out like they always do, and when it came to the meat and potatoes, it was nothing but short denials for answers and attempts to change the subject.

As a conservative pilot and advocate for the drop of the 3rd class medical, I'm on pins and needles and keep having to remind myself that this is not my circus and not my monkey. I can't help but worry that something tragic could happen. I guess on one side of the fence, if the person is solo and bends the airplane (any person solo for that matter) but if the person still is not a certified pilot and is taking up a passenger and bends the airplane... or worse... how bad of a black eye would that be on the LSA crowd?

I know this person's family, and there is about 30% of me that thinks some of his tales are made up... but the other 70% is worried for his safety, and that of the aviation community.

Not only is this dissertation just an outlet for me to get it in black and white, it's also a forum to see if anyone else has had a similar renegade, and what did you do to help the renegade make wiser decisions.

Everyone wants to be the cool kid, I get that. We are an elite group of people, a family. We have the passion to fly, but when one of our own starts making bad decisions, how far do we go to help them?

If this sounds like something blown out of proportion, I sincerely hope that this is all it is. Any advice?
 
What difference would it make if he had a medical?

If you think someone is going to end up dead, then you do what you think you should do. Or, encourage the individual to finish up with their ticket if the problem is primarily one of not having the proper paper/plastic. Could be he has been doing loops in that Cub since he was 10.
 
If you are concerned talk to one of the pilots in his family. Otherwise MYOFB. Pretty gay to be on the 'black eye for aviation' bit. GA stuffed a jet into a suburb killing a mom and her two kids with fire. This guy ain't gonna black eye anything with a LSA.
 
Like Judge Judy says, unless you witnessed these transgressions yourself or have an eye witness, it's hearsay and in-admissible.

I just did 11 loops in my skywagon. :lol:

Anybody can say anything.
 
txflyer said:
Like Judge Judy says, unless you witnessed these transgressions yourself or have an eye witness, it's hearsay and in-admissible.

I just did 11 loops in my skywagon. :lol:

Anybody can say anything.
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And while you were posting that I did 12 loops in your skywagon.:lol: Smoke rivets smoke
 
ClimbnSink said:
And while you were posting that I did 12 loops in your skywagon.:lol: Smoke rivets smoke
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I did have a cowboy who wanted to roll my wagon when I was doing the ten hours dual for the insurance company. I had just bought it.

He felt the controls and said " oh yeah, this baby is light on the yoke, I bet it would roll."

I told him we may not be fully insured yet if anything goes wrong, so he backed off. :nonod:
 
There's only one thing to do... You're going to have to kill him. Being Elite that shouldn't be a problem.
 
While I think LSA is worthy of our scorn... this is a cowboy-attitude thing, and happens in all sorts of planes, not just LSA.

Plenty of these dudes around. Not all of them will self-skim themselves from the gene pool.

Until he kills someone, we can't know if he's dangerous, can we? :)
 
You can't save the world. You spoke to him, he knows he's being watched. That's about all you can do. Well that and keep people you know and care about away from him.
 
Hurry up and get him certificated. Then if he augers it, with or without pax, at least he did so with the proper paperwork. Scandal averted.

Rich
 
Quite playing in the rumor mill, you sound like a little highschool girl.

Unless you see it with your own eyeballs, STFU.


txflyer said:
Like Judge Judy says, unless you witnessed these transgressions yourself or have an eye witness, it's hearsay and in-admissible.

I just did 11 loops in my skywagon. :lol:

Anybody can say anything.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah... I just snap rolled my amphib.
 
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One of the commercial pilots who frequents this site and is well regarded by just about everyone told me about looping a legacy LSA.
 
Unregistered said:
I know this person's family
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There's your out. Ask if he took his checkride? Mention that you think you saw him with a passenger. Then mention you also heard about him doing loops in the airplane. His family will ask him about it, he will get the warning.

Beyond that, you can't do much beyond following him with a camera and taking pictures.

Also, that might have been a CFI that you don't know. Why did you assume it was a passenger and not an instructor? If he's getting ready for a checkride, he has to ride with an instructor.
 
If you haven't seen it yourself, you don't know that it's happening. Unless/until you do see it yourself (or hear it from a reliable person who did, preferably two sources), you have no real basis on which to take any action other than being observant.
 
We have a neighbor "Stan" back in the US who's owned and flown a supercub for probably 4 decades. He frequently takes his brother or neighbors (cough) as a passenger as they count cows. No one can recall Stan ever taking a flying lesson or getting a BFR, he just started flying one day. Also, Stan swears (and I believe it) that after a disagreement over his VA benefits, he swore off doctors hasn't seen an MD of any stripe since the early 1970's. Does any of this mean Stan doesn't have a medical or license? Beats me, that's none of my business. But if one of my daughters or nieces can't find a 4-H calf I'd have no qualms about sending them for a ride with him to look for it.
 
steingar said:
One of the commercial pilots who frequents this site and is well regarded by just about everyone told me about looping a legacy LSA.
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In many this is no problem. I have looped, rolled, spun and done hammerhead stalls in a legacy LSA and it was totally legal :)

and fun


Remember LSA is basically weight and speed restrictions. A J-3 can be flown as LSA due to its weight, # of passengers and it has no chance of approaching 120kts in level flight.
 
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does he have a medical? you checked right before you posted and waited the number of days the system is behind to make sure?
 
Palmpilot said:
I take it you haven't read many of his posts yet! :rofl:
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I am familiar with his abrasive trollishness, and don't really know why I bothered to comment.

BTW, although I don't post much, I visit several times a day, and have done so for years.
 
What is an "LSA student"?
What is the definition of a legacy LSA? An example?
 
jnmeade said:
What is an "LSA student"?
What is the definition of a legacy LSA? An example?
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Its semantics... They really mean old airplanes that somebody with a Sport pilot can act as PIC in. Taylorcraft, Cubs, some Champs and Luscombes.

an LSA aircraft is an entirely different creature
 
VanDy said:
Its semantics... They really mean old airplanes that somebody with a Sport pilot can act as PIC in. Taylorcraft, Cubs, some Champs and Luscombes.

an LSA aircraft is an entirely different creature
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For a while, it was best to call them "Light Sport Eligible" aircraft.

But FAR 1.1 actually does define Light Sport Aircraft, so since they meet that definition, it's not wrong to call them Light Sport Aircraft.

Light-sport aircraft means an aircraft, other than a helicopter or powered-lift that, since its original certification, has continued to meet the following:

(1) A maximum takeoff weight of not more than—

(i) 1,320 pounds (600 kilograms) for aircraft not intended for operation on water; or

(ii) 1,430 pounds (650 kilograms) for an aircraft intended for operation on water.

(2) A maximum airspeed in level flight with maximum continuous power (VH) of not more than 120 knots CAS under standard atmospheric conditions at sea level.

(3) A maximum never-exceed speed (VNE) of not more than 120 knots CAS for a glider.

(4) A maximum stalling speed or minimum steady flight speed without the use of lift-enhancing devices (VS1) of not more than 45 knots CAS at the aircraft's maximum certificated takeoff weight and most critical center of gravity.

(5) A maximum seating capacity of no more than two persons, including the pilot.

(6) A single, reciprocating engine, if powered.

(7) A fixed or ground-adjustable propeller if a powered aircraft other than a powered glider.

(8) A fixed or feathering propeller system if a powered glider.

(9) A fixed-pitch, semi-rigid, teetering, two-blade rotor system, if a gyroplane.

(10) A nonpressurized cabin, if equipped with a cabin.

(11) Fixed landing gear, except for an aircraft intended for operation on water or a glider.

(12) Fixed or retractable landing gear, or a hull, for an aircraft intended for operation on water.

(13) Fixed or retractable landing gear for a glider.
 
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So, it looks like LSA means two things:
One is an airplane that can be flown by a person exercising Sport Pilot privileges and one is an airworthiness certification category.
 
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