Regulation quetions

[Witmo]

I'm close to taking the commercial check ride and have recently had a discussion concerning the restrictions placed on a commercial pilot without an instrument rating. Do the prohibitions of carrying a passenger at night or flying farther than 50 miles at any time apply to a instrument rated pilot who is no longer instrument current? On a similar vein, can an instrument rated private pilot in an instrument equipped airplane who is not instrument ciurrent request special vfr at night? It would seem to me that if the FAA required currency in instrument flight, the regulatios could easily have said so and not have to be "implied. "

 

[Greg Bockelman]

No and yes.

 

[bobmrg]

I'm close to taking the commercial check ride and have recently had a discussion concerning the restrictions placed on a commercial pilot without an instrument rating. Do the prohibitions of carrying a passenger at night or flying farther than 50 miles at any time apply to a instrument rated pilot who is no longer instrument current? On a similar vein, can an instrument rated private pilot in an instrument equipped airplane who is not instrument ciurrent request special vfr at night? It would seem to me that if the FAA required currency in instrument flight, the regulatios could easily have said so and not have to be "implied. "

If you hold an instrument rating and are not current, you no longer have an instrument rating. Nice thing is that you can bring it back to life fairly easily.

Bob Gardner

 

[Witmo]

If you hold an instrument rating and are not current, you no longer have an instrument rating. Nice thing is that you can bring it back to life fairly easily.

Bob Gardner

Huh? Where do you get that interpretation?

 

[RotorAndWing]

If you hold an instrument rating and are not current, you no longer have an instrument rating. Nice thing is that you can bring it back to life fairly easily.

Bob Gardner

Huh? Where do you get that interpretation?

 

[poadeleted20]

If you hold an instrument rating and are not current, you no longer have an instrument rating. Nice thing is that you can bring it back to life fairly easily.

Bob Gardner

I don't see that anywhere in the regulations, and there are a number of things which require an instrument rating you can still do without being 61.57(c) instrument current (starting with being a required second in command under IFR).

To answer Tim's two questions...

Regarding SVFR, I believe that you must be 61.57(c) IFR current to get a SVFR clearance at night because the regulation requires that "The person being granted the ATC clearance meets the applicable requirements for instrument flight under part 61 of this chapter", and those "applicable requirements" would include 61.57(c). However, for carrying paying passengers beyond 50nm or at night, 61.133 specifically requires that limitation only if the pilot "does not hold an instrument rating in the same category and class". The Chief Counsel has been consistent in holding that "rating" means only what's printed on your certificate, and not anything that's in your logbook.

So, I agree with Greg's "No and yes" answer.

 

[Palmpilot]

I don't see that anywhere in the regulations, and there are a number of things which require an instrument rating you can still do without being 61.57(c) instrument current (starting with being a required second in command under IFR).

To answer Tim's two questions...

Regarding SVFR, I believe that you must be 61.57(c) IFR current to get a SVFR clearance at night because the regulation requires that "The person being granted the ATC clearance meets the applicable requirements for instrument flight under part 61 of this chapter", and those "applicable requirements" would include 61.57(c). However, for carrying paying passengers beyond 50nm or at night, 61.133 specifically requires that limitation only if the pilot "does not hold an instrument rating in the same category and class". The Chief Counsel has been consistent in holding that "rating" means only what's printed on your certificate, and not anything that's in your logbook.

So, I agree with Greg's "No and yes" answer.

Tim's first question was phrased prohibitively, and his second question permissively, so unless I'm misunderstanding what you wrote, your answer would be "no and no."

 

[Greg Bockelman]

You misunderstood.

 

[Palmpilot]

Can you be more specific? I've carefully reread the questions and answers, and I'm still not seeing it.

 

[midlifeflyer]

==============================
Q: Do the prohibitions of carrying a passenger at night or flying farther than 50 miles at any time apply to a instrument rated pilot who is no longer instrument current?

A: No.
==============================
Q: can an instrument rated private pilot in an instrument equipped airplane who is not instrument ciurrent request special vfr at night?


A: Yes.
==============================

It may have been Ron's "However" that confused you; made you think the analysis was different. In both cases the reason for the answer is the same. The applicable regulations have a rating requirement but do not specify a currency requirement.

 

[Witmo]

Thanks to everyone who responded. It's amazing how frequently people read much more into what the words actually say.

 

[poadeleted20]

==============================
Q: Do the prohibitions of carrying a passenger at night or flying farther than 50 miles at any time apply to a instrument rated pilot who is no longer instrument current?

A: No.
==============================
Q: can an instrument rated private pilot in an instrument equipped airplane who is not instrument ciurrent request special vfr at night?


A: Yes.
==============================

It may have been Ron's "However" that confused you; made you think the analysis was different. In both cases the reason for the answer is the same. The applicable regulations have a rating requirement but do not specify a currency requirement.

I agree as far as 61.133(b)(1) is concerned regarding passengers for hire at night/beyond 50nm (although it's not exactly an issue of a rating, but rather of a specific limitation placed on the airman's Commercial Pilot certificate), but not on the second point. 91.157(b)(4)(i) does not say "rated", it says "meets the applicable requirements for instrument flight under part 61 of this chapter." 61.57(c) includes recent instrument experience requirements, and 61.57(c) is a "requirement for instrument flight under part 61 of this chapter". So as I read 91.157, instrument currency under 61.57(c) is required to accept a SVFR clearance between sunset and sunrise.

 

[MikeELP]

Tim's first question was phrased prohibitively, and his second question permissively, so unless I'm misunderstanding what you wrote, your answer would be "no and no."

That's the way I read the OP's questions as well, Rich.

My answer would be "No and No".