Redesigned Immigration Test - Would you pass?

wbarnhill

wbarnhill

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http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/28/washington/28citizen.html

Federal immigration authorities yesterday unveiled 100 new questions immigrants will have to study to pass a civics test to become naturalized American citizens. The redesign of the test, the first since it was created in 1986 as a standardized examination, follows years of criticism in which conservatives said the test was too easy and immigrant advocates said it was too hard.
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10 Questions From the Redesigned Naturalization Test

1. How many amendments does the Constitution have?

2. What stops one branch of government from becoming too powerful?

3. The House of Representatives has how many voting members?

4. There are four amendments to the Constitution about who can vote. Describe one of them.

5. What are two rights only for United States citizens?

6. The Federalist Papers supported the passage of the U.S. Constitution. Name one of the writers.

7. What territory did the United States buy from France in 1803?

8. Who was President during World War I?

9. Name one U.S. territory.

10. Why does the flag have 13 stripes?

Answers attached (PDF). I've also attached the questions so if you want to give family members or coworkers a test as well. :D
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/national/Ten_Answers.pdf
 

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This was actually much easier than the last one I saw. I got 9/10.
 
well im glad that i looked at the answers first. wouldve gotten more than half right, im sure i knew a lot of that stuff when i was in high school and had to take the class.
 
SkyHog said:
This was actually much easier than the last one I saw. I got 9/10.
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Do you think the test should be harder, or that this is good enough?

I understand wanting to set a bar for immigrants, but I also think we should probably be setting the bar at the same height if not higher for our own citizens.

That said, I didn't do nearly as well as you Nick. oy.
 
Without looking at the answers, I only got a couple right. :redface:

The citizenship test is like the airman written tests - you get to study the questions and answers before actually taking it. As such, it's not that hard.
 
JohnR said:
Without looking at the answers, I only got a couple right. :redface:

The citizenship test is like the airman written tests - you get to study the questions and answers before actually taking it. As such, it's not that hard.
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True, but at least you could probably still answer questions on the airman written because you studied for it so much. I'd like for our high school students to be able to pass the same citizenship test we give immigrants. It's just shameful if we can't answer the questions we're asking others, y'know?
 
wbarnhill said:
Do you think the test should be harder, or that this is good enough?
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I don't know about harder or easier, but I think they should ask practical questions of a real-world nature, not things like the number of amendments or representatives (both of which I got wrong). Does it really matter who wrote the Federalist Papers? Does knowing that make you a better citizen? :confused:
 
Everskyward said:
I don't know about harder or easier, but I think they should ask practical questions of a real-world nature, not things like the number of amendments or representatives (both of which I got wrong). Does it really matter who wrote the Federalist Papers? Does knowing that make you a better citizen? :confused:
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I personally think there should be a mix.

What rights do you have?
Why do you have those rights?
How can you exercise those rights?
When were those rights acknowledged?

Critical thinking versus rote memorization.
 
wbarnhill said:
Critical thinking versus rote memorization.
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yes that would be ideal. but try to grade thousands of tests that test critical thinking. it would take lots and lots of employees, and then you are grading based on the bias of the individual grading. its no different than what teachers of large lectures face. how to fairly test a subject but make it reasonable for everyone involved. its not very practical if there is a 6 month backlog (or worse) to get the grades back.
 
tonycondon said:
yes that would be ideal. but try to grade thousands of tests that test critical thinking. it would take lots and lots of employees, and then you are grading based on the bias of the individual grading. its no different than what teachers of large lectures face. how to fairly test a subject but make it reasonable for everyone involved. its not very practical if there is a 6 month backlog (or worse) to get the grades back.
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Completely agree. Wishful thinking :(
 
wbarnhill said:
Do you think the test should be harder, or that this is good enough?
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Remember, the higher we set the bar, the smarter our country becomes. We already have a lot of stupid Americans. Lets get some smart ones in! :D

I understand wanting to set a bar for immigrants, but I also think we should probably be setting the bar at the same height if not higher for our own citizens.
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I don't. They are getting a special change at a decent life coming here. They have to earn it. We were lucky enough to be born here, but if we want to emigrate, I'm sure whichever country takes us will want us to be smart too.

That said, I didn't do nearly as well as you Nick. oy.
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I found the easiest way to answer the questions was to think practically.

For example, knowing it was Woody that was president during WWI, one only needs to remember the years WWI happened, and then figure out the presidents in order by length of term. Takes a minute or so, but you're assured of the answer.

I hope everyone knows about "The Louisiana Purchase" by now.

There's 27 amendments, the last being passed only about 16 years ago in 1992, and it keeps representatives from voting on their own pay raises. That's an important amendment!

The Federalist Papers were written in 1787 (if I remember correctly), which means a good chance at picking a writer would be John Jay, cheif justice of the supreme court....just saying, who else would be a good guess from the time period?
 
SkyHog said:
The Federalist Papers were written in 1787 (if I remember correctly), which means a good chance at picking a writer would be John Jay, cheif justice of the supreme court....just saying, who else would be a good guess from the time period?
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Oh I was thinking about Adams and Jefferson, to name two.
 
SkyHog said:
...
For example, knowing it was Woody that was president during WWI, one only needs to remember the years WWI happened, and then figure out the presidents in order by length of term. Takes a minute or so, but you're assured of the answer.

I hope everyone knows about "The Louisiana Purchase" by now.

There's 27 amendments, the last being passed only about 16 years ago in 1992, and it keeps representatives from voting on their own pay raises. That's an important amendment!

The Federalist Papers were written in 1787 (if I remember correctly), which means a good chance at picking a writer would be John Jay, cheif justice of the supreme court....just saying, who else would be a good guess from the time period?
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But in terms of being a good citizen, none of that stuff matters.

Who cares that it was called "the Louisiana Purchase?" Does it matter that you the name, or does it matter that you know the purchase of those western lands opened up the continent for expansion (and the oppression of hundreds of thousands if not millions of indigineous peoples)?

Who cares that there are 27 Amendments? Does it matter that you know the number, or does it matter that you know the substance of those 27?

Who care who was the Prez during WWI? Does it matter that you know his name, or does it matter that you know his actions in promoting some useless organization (the League of Nations) would contribute directly to Hitler's rise and the outbreak of WWII?

Sure, if you're interested in all of that stuff, names and dates do matter. And there's nothing wrong with knowing them, and I respect anyone who can put a historical occurrence within 10 years of when it occurred.

But, in order to be a good citizen, it matters more that you understand the substance of historical occurrences - not the fluff. In other words, it matters that you know that Gettysburg was the turning point of the Civil War, not that it was fought on July 1-3, 1863 and that the Confederates probably would have won it if Lee hadn't been so pigheaded.
 
Anyone know what the passing score is? I know eight for sure, can only give one right reserved to citizens, and lost count of the amendments some years back (I was off by one) -- figure an 85% for me. BTW, one of the answers they gave on the citizen's rights question is wrong (you don't have to be a citizen to have a Federal job).
 
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Ron Levy said:
Anyone know what the passing score is? I know eight for sure, can only give one right reserved to citizens, and lost count of the amendments some years back (I was off by one) -- figure an 85% for me. BTW, one of the answers they gave on the citizen's rights question is wrong (you don't have to be a citizen to have a Federal job).
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On the radio this morning, they said passing was 6 out of 10.
 
I doubt you could get 5 people to agree on what is important to put on a test to determine if a person would be a good citizen. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't universal agreement on the qualities that make a good citizen.
 
steingar said:
I doubt you could get 5 people to agree on what is important to put on a test to determine if a person would be a good citizen. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't universal agreement on the qualities that make a good citizen.
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Hmmm...that's a good point.

My top 5 qualities for U.S. citizenship:
1) Enjoying football;
2) Liking bratwursts cooked in Miller High Life;
3) Being able to recite Top Gun word-for-word;
4) Talking louder to people who don't speak English because the "talkee" understands the "talker" better that way; and
5) An obsessive desire to make it onto Springer.

Those 5 things are what make the United States what it is.

All joking aside, your point is a good one.
 
Ron Levy said:
Anyone know what the passing score is? I know eight for sure, can only give one right reserved to citizens, and lost count of the amendments some years back (I was off by one) -- figure an 85% for me. BTW, one of the answers they gave on the citizen's rights question is wrong (you don't have to be a citizen to have a Federal job).
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I missed the admendments. But then, I'd swear there were only 18 when I was in school (and didn't THAT get repealed?).
 
Without looking at the answers, I will later answer all questions with perfection! For now, I'm still busy paying fuel taxes!
 
Most of my citizenship ceremony and swearing in was in SPANISH! (El Paso Tx 2001)
I didn't understand most of it. :(
 
silver-eagle said:
I'd swear there were only 18 when I was in school (and didn't THAT get repealed?).
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Yes, it did, but if you were in school before the 19th Amendment (women's suffrage) was ratified in 1920, you would at least 92 years old -- and I'm impressed you're still flying.
 
Okay, here goes... as promised! :)

1. How many amendments does the Constitution have?
Not enough. There should be amendments forbidding politicians from lying and going back on their campaign promises. There should also be requirements to limit spending and the President to have a quota to veto 85% of all spending bills. He can pick his favorite 15% to keep.

2. What stops one branch of government from becoming too powerful?
Law suits, hearings and lots of time in recess where they are not meddling in the lives of citizens.

3. The House of Representatives has how many voting members?
534 too many.

4. There are four amendments to the Constitution about who can vote. Describe one of them.
One lets women vote in spite of their decisions based on hair.

5. What are two rights only for United States citizens?
The right to contribute to social security and the right to die before it's collected.

6. The Federalist Papers supported the passage of the U.S. Constitution. Name one of the writers.
How about two:
Henry Kiss & William Tell

7. What territory did the United States buy from France in 1803?
The South Pole?

8. Who was President during World War I?
Robert Byrd?

9. Name one U.S. territory.
Ames, Iowa?

10. Why does the flag have 13 stripes?
There are thirteen cards in each suit of a deck of cards which represent the different levels of society from the illegal alien duce to the King. Fourteen had been considered but there are only two jokers in a deck and Ted Kennedy and Ted Stevens refused to give up the prestige of their cards being used.

There ya go! And, I never looked at the answers. I still haven't! :)
 
JohnR said:
Without looking at the answers, I only got a couple right. :redface:

The citizenship test is like the airman written tests - you get to study the questions and answers before actually taking it. As such, it's not that hard.
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Not when I took mine, and it wasn't a written either, it was an oral given by a Judge. I got a DAR manual manual to study (of course I grew up and went to school here as well) which was not a questions and answers book, and went into a Judges chambers at the appointed time and he gave me an oral exam that took about 30-45 minutes including discussion of other issues that were not even mentioned in the manual.
 
KennyFlys said:
Yep... they should be reduced to one vote for both houses. Let's let the citizens actually say what they want for a change. Those elected as representatives sure aren't truly representing their constituents.
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I think he was pointing out that there are only 435 in the House of Representatives ;)
 
KennyFlys said:
Yep... they should be reduced to one vote for both houses. Let's let the citizens actually say what they want for a change. Those elected as representatives sure aren't truly representing their constituents.
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What I was getting at is that the number 534 is wrong. :p
 
Y'all need to take the politics out of this discussion. If you have a political point to make, make it in the Spin Zone.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
What I was getting at is that the number 534 is wrong. :p
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The Senate does not vote on bills after or before the House of "Representatives"?

435 Representatives + 100 Senators = 535 votes combined from the upper and lower houses. So der! :p
 
KennyFlys said:
The Senate does not vote on bills after or before the House of "Representatives"?

435 Representatives + 100 Senators = 535 votes combined from the upper and lower houses. So der! :p
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Ah, yes. The infamous "gang of 535".
 
Henning said:
Not when I took mine, and it wasn't a written either, it was an oral given by a Judge. I got a DAR manual manual to study (of course I grew up and went to school here as well) which was not a questions and answers book, and went into a Judges chambers at the appointed time and he gave me an oral exam that took about 30-45 minutes including discussion of other issues that were not even mentioned in the manual.
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Each and every applicant for citizenship is examined in person by a government official. Today the exam is generally given by an employee of the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service a sub division of DHS. There are still provisions for judges to perform the oath ceremony, and one can appeal adverse decisions, but generally the exam is given by an adjudications officer specially trained to give the exam.

The process begins with an application and the submission of a rather hefty fee. If you want to know what a user fee based system is like - look at immigration. This is not a statement about good or bad, just a statement about the impact of user fees - the government loses all incentive to control its costs and fees sckyrocket while service seems to get worse every day.

The exam may be given orally or in writing. The passing score is 60% - we're not admitting only scholars, just someone who knows when they take the citizenship oath, what it is they are talking about.


Oath of Allegiance for Naturalized Citizens


"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."
 
KennyFlys said:
The Senate does not vote on bills after or before the House of "Representatives"?

435 Representatives + 100 Senators = 535 votes combined from the upper and lower houses. So der! :p
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And the question was...

3. The House of Representatives has how many voting members?
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And the 534... If you're including the Senate... Are you implying that there's actually one good one? :eek: :rofl:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
And the question was...



And the 534... If you're including the Senate... Are you implying that there's actually one good one? :eek: :rofl:
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Oops! I didn't realize I had answered the question wrong way back then. Yep, there's 435 in the lower house.

Nope, I'm not convinced there's one good one... there may be but who??? I do think allowing ONE vote between the two houses against the votes of a hundred million... yeah, that's the ticket! And, odds are Tom Coburn would be voting along with the hundred million.

He was the one who pushed a vote on the "Bridge to nowhere" when Teddyboy wanted to keep it going. But, Teddy now has his own problems.
 
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