Rebate Flight?

Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by MBDiagMan, Mar 6, 2019.

  1. AK737pilot

    AK737pilot Pre-Flight

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    Anyone here do it in Anchorage airspace?


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  2. Matthew Rogers

    Matthew Rogers Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Although others have said they got a good rebate flight outside of rule airspace, I did warn that the PAPR report specifically tallies the amount of time in rule airspace. It seems that that is the only hard rule now, the listed maneuvers are not necessary, just whatever gentle turns and stuff you would normally do to waste time in the air. If you don’t have any Mode C, Brave, or Charlie, then certainly climb to 10,500, spend 35 mins up there and come back down.
     
  3. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I was in rule airspace for 5-6 minutes at most, but my report specifically states I was in rule airspace for more than 30 minutes... But I did the maneuvers.

    Maybe it's one or the other.
     
  4. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    Okay, I did the flight this morning and got an apparently good PAPR, but no GAIRS was included. Not sure I know where to go from here.
     
  5. kgruber

    kgruber En-Route

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    Email them. The GAIRS report OFTEN doesn't show up.............even with the secret url website. They email back quickly.

    For me, they said it wasn't needed.
     
  6. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    Thanks very much for the response gruber!

    If they said you did not need the GAIRS, did you not have to enter the incentive code that was supposed to be provided in that report?

    Thanks again!
     
  7. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    I tried submitting without the incentive code from the GAIRS and it wouldn’t submit.
     
  8. kgruber

    kgruber En-Route

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    When my GAIRS report wouldn't show up and I commented to them by email.......here was their response.

    """GAIRS reports are sent when you request your ADS-B Performance Report from the rebate website rather than the Public Performance Report site. We are providing an override for that requirement so you can claim your rebate directly.

    We have cleared your reservation so you can proceed to the rebate claim. Please go to the Rebate Claim page https://adsbrebate.faa.gov/RebateClaim.aspx to complete your rebate request. You will need the Rebate Reservation Number (RR-XXXX-XXXX) provided in your Rebate Reservation confirmation email, but will not need an incentive code.""""

    ADS-B Rebate Program Office,
    Federal Aviation Administration
    http://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/rebate/
    Have questions? Get answers from our ADS-B Rebate Frequently Asked Questions: http://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/rebate/faq/

    Read the Program Rules: http://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/rebate/media/ADS-B_Rebate_Program_Rules.pdf
     
  9. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    Gruber. Thanks very much for the help. I tried that link and got the same problem I had before. It sounds as if they cleared something for you specifically. I have an email into them which replied that they would not be back in the office until the nineteenth. There is another member also going out of his way to help. There are some good folks here including yourself. Thanks very much.

    At least I have a PAPR with no red marks and have about fifty days left to work it out I 5ink I will get there.
     
  10. Jim_CAK

    Jim_CAK Pre-takeoff checklist PoA Supporter

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    Eventually. As everyone suggested - you should fly per the recommendations. I did not spend enough time in the Class C airspace. I looked up my flight and saw the track so I submitted it. I should have been paying more attention.
    Eventually the flight was approved.
    Here is the first email I got after I submitted:
    A few days later - I got the approval.

    At least in our case - we got the rebate without any issues.
     
  11. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    Glory Hallejuua! I got an email with the incentive code and made a successful submittal.

    I flew 2.3 hours this morning including to the Charlie, flying in the Charlie and returning home. Jumping through all the hoops was a lot more trouble than the flight.

    Thanks to all of you who responded and helped!
     
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  12. Punkinhead

    Punkinhead Pre-Flight

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    My wife and I did the rebate flight for her plane this morning. We just climbed to 10,500 over our little rural airport and putzed around for 35 minutes. No particular maneuvers or anything. I sent the report request and got the automated pass email within seconds.
     
  13. kgruber

    kgruber En-Route

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    Yes! By far the easiest method. cheap...fast...good..........pick any three!
     
  14. cgrab

    cgrab Pattern Altitude

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    Flew today and FAILED. My flight was over the closed parallel runway at a Class C. I climbed to 3500 feet (2000 AGL). I did two loooong figure eights and then descended to pattern altitude and landed.
    My Results: Flight Duration: 35:06 In Rule: 35:01
    Failed NIC
    % Fail: 3.19
    Max dT: 00:00:22
    MCF: 13
    Avg NIC 7.8
    Min 0
    Max 8

    What does all this mean?
    What do I do to pass on my next flight
     
  15. Matthew Rogers

    Matthew Rogers Pre-takeoff checklist

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    NIC failure is what I got on my first flight. Uavionix diagnosed it as a failure to let the GPS get a fully developed position before moving the airplane when first started and taxiing. If you do it again, turn on the airplane and sit tight not moving from your parking spot for a full 5 minutes to make sure that everything is working perfectly and then do a flight. The test system is so sensitive that even a few seconds in the beginning can fail the test. You may also want to slow down and come to a complete stop once on the ground after landing and then turn off your ADSB before taxiing back if you have a long way to go in case there is some place where you may lose GPS coverage on the ground from buildings, hills, or trees. It could prevent a failure of the last 22 seconds of the flight.
     
  16. cgrab

    cgrab Pattern Altitude

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    Thanks Matt, I did wait for a while before starting but I taxied behind the hangar at the end. Next time I'll turn off the Skybeacon when I come to a stop on the runway (after a few seconds). Is it OK to use your cell to check that the Skybeacon has a fix before taxiing?
     
  17. Matthew Rogers

    Matthew Rogers Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Well, I would just come to a complete stop and wait there a minute or two, then turn it off, but the stuff at the end is less important than the wait at the beginning. You can't connect to the skybeacon after 5 minutes from turning it on (FAA regulation). You have to turn it off and back on and you can connect again to check and change settings. They told me that I could check the NIC failure thing by doing the same thing, but just a short 10 minute flight, then do the full one when the NIC went away on the short test flight. But I trusted them and omitted that step and it worked fine.
     
  18. Matthew Rogers

    Matthew Rogers Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Oh, and if you don't get a GAIRS report, even using the correct link, that seems to be totally normal these days. Only certain people with the magic touch can get the GAIRS report and someone here will will help pass it along to you. Seriously, it sounds like I must be joking, but too many people have followed the exact same directions and links, but get different results with the GAIRS and luckily, anyone can ask for a report and pass along your Incentive Code to you. Without a friendly aviation community the process would fall apart.
     
  19. cgrab

    cgrab Pattern Altitude

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    I was able to get a GAIRS even though it said failed.

    So at start-up, I would like to connect my phone to the Skybeacon and wait until it shows a GPS fix then disconnect. That way I won't start moving without a fix. Is that OK?
     
  20. Matthew Rogers

    Matthew Rogers Pre-takeoff checklist

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    unknown exactly, could be a bit of magic. Just try it again and it will work.... or it won't and then you get to try it again. Good thing is that your equipment is not faulty, just the process as mine had the exact same thing happen and it is a known issue (short NIC failure).
     
  21. cgrab

    cgrab Pattern Altitude

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    OK, thanks again.
     
  22. kgruber

    kgruber En-Route

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    Best method is to climb to 10500 for 35 minutes. Forget EVERYtHING else.
     
  23. cgrab

    cgrab Pattern Altitude

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    That woould be fine but it appears that I failed because of action on the ground.
     
  24. Punkinhead

    Punkinhead Pre-Flight

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    We took off and landed at a rural airport with no ground coverage. Our rebate report said there was no record of ground activities,only air. We just flew around at 10.5 above rural class G for 35 minutes. Passed the first time.
     
  25. Matthew Rogers

    Matthew Rogers Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Yeah, but still something can happen in the first few minutes that makes a difference in the results. Don’t know what, just magic.
     
  26. Punkinhead

    Punkinhead Pre-Flight

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    It makes me wonder if the FAA's approach is something like, if there's no ground coverage then you can pass the rebate flight based solely on air coverage but if you takeoff & land at an airport that does have ground coverage then the ground portion of the test needs to be 100% right.
     
  27. jssmith.lh

    jssmith.lh Filing Flight Plan

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    I Passed mine the second try. Flew at 10.5 for 45 minutes from an airport with no ground coverage. Maybe it's the device. I put in a Stratus ESG. My problem the first time, I was only at 6500. I had minimal errors on that flight. With the Skybeacon you might need to keep it off until airborne due to its lower power output.
     
  28. Jesse Saint

    Jesse Saint Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I’ve never done a rebate flight from an airport with ground coverage. That is not part of the rebate flight. If you have a flight with 30 minute sounds or more in rule airspace, even if you just fly a straight line, the automated system gives you a passing GAIRS report with an incentive code. If you don’t meet the 30 minutes, then you fail the GAIRS report. The email with the GAIRS report has an email address that you can send a request to review your flight manually. If they do that, they will look at your flight on the specified date and if they see no problems, they will email you that you can get the rebate without the incentive code (they must put something in the system that releases it). One time I had one of my guys doing a rebate flight for a customer and his hand accidentally bumped the power button and turned the transponder off for about 3 seconds (plus maybe 10 seconds to find itself again). It failed on the GAIRS report because there was about 10-15 seconds of uncompliance. I emailed them. They asked what happened, and sent a diagram of the flight with the red marks for that short time. I told them that he accidentally powered the transponder off then right back on. They released the rebate, no problem.
     
  29. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Not true... I've passed two planes on the first try with only a few minutes in rule airspace (landed at a Class C)... But I followed my checklist of maneuvers that meets the spec in the AC.

    It sounds like if you do *either* one of those two things, you should get a pass if your equipment is functioning correctly.
     
  30. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    I passed my first validation flight with a Stratus ESG.
     
  31. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    As follow up, I received an email from the FAA that said my application has been approved and the check will be here in 4 to 6 weeks. So... check is in the mail.
     
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  32. AK737pilot

    AK737pilot Pre-Flight

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    [​IMG]

    Garmin GTX335 in a ‘68 182L.

    I took off from an airport outside rule airspace and climbed to 10,500’ and started a timer. Flew straight and level for 15 minutes, did standard rate 360° turns to the right and left, 180° to go back, started a descent at 35:00 on the timer. I was no closer than 40 miles from the nearest Class C airspace the whole time.

    According to the report it had me in rule airspace longer than my time at 10,500’.


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