Raptor Aircraft

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Unit74, Nov 6, 2015.

  1. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Which can best be described as “sacrificial”, right?

    Not sure that’s what you’re going for in a bearing.
     
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  2. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    They are indeed. I doubt I'd use one in the internals of anything. They make good externals though.
     
  3. Omalley1537

    Omalley1537 Cleared for Takeoff

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    My guess is that this is just another example of PM demonstrating his willingness/ability to take a small amount of information and apply it incorrectly. He probably saw something that referenced Delrin as a bearing material and rather than ask around, he ran with it (not realizing that the bearings Delrin is good for see limited range of motion and certainly don’t involve a shaft spinning at (relatively) high rpm.

    The lengths he is willing to go to avoid admitting that he doesn’t know something are staggering.
     
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  4. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

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    My question is how in the world did he get this far in the first place using these methods?
     
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  5. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    I ask myself this question with most people I meet
     
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  6. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 En-Route

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    He had experts helping him through the initial design all the way up to just before test flight. Most left after dealing with him long enough.
     
  7. kayoh190

    kayoh190 Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    HEY!

    :p
     
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  8. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    haha.. *most* .. not all.. lol
     
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  9. jaxcessnadriver

    jaxcessnadriver Pre-Flight

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    Anyone notice the case of 5-30 mobil1 behind him in the last video? I know the 3.0tdi typically a calls that but I can’t believe he hasn’t tried a ticker weight oil considering the usage application.
     
  10. WillFly4Food

    WillFly4Food Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I missed that. But I got bored while he was talking about the oil cooler, so I started looking around at what else was on the table. Saw a bag of some kind of Hilman grommets. Typical Lowe’s/hardware store basic quality stuff. I have no idea what he intends for them. But, Hilman on an airplane? Wow. Smh.
     
  11. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    I loved the video from the turbo guy. I didn't know any of that, it was really interesting. The Raptor guy should really watch that video. If the turbo guy is right, and I assume his graphs were genuine, the Raptor won't make it's ceiling or anything near it.
     
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  12. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Line Up and Wait

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    The graphs are genuine, they're easy to find for pretty much any turbo setup ever made since they are used exactly in the manner the guy explained for helping determine proper turbo sizing.
     
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  13. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach

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    Yup. The amazing thing is that it's not even specialty knowledge. I remember Ford making a big to-do about it when they came out with the 6.7L Powerstroke back in 2012 or so. They specifically advertised that it had a smaller turbo to help with throttle response and eliminate turbo lag, as well as a larger turbo for big power. It's just another link in the chain of failures the Raptor has become.
     
  14. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 En-Route

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    I remember that from my "tuner" days a long time ago. In a twin turbo setup, you either can run two identical turbos in parallel, each feeding its own bank of cylinders, or you can have a sequential setup with a small turbo for the faster response at lower rpm, and a larger turbo for the bigger boost at higher rpm. Having a sequential setup with two identical turbos makes no sense, and a lot of heat.
     
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  15. mondtster

    mondtster En-Route

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    Your two descriptions detail common approaches to gas powered setups. Diesels often run compounded systems to improve flow while also increasing pressure ratio. It is similar to the compressor stages used in a turbine engine.

    The Ford system being referenced by Sooner is more or less none of the above, and as far as I know really doesn’t have much in common with the Audi engine used in the Raptor. The early 6.7 used a two sided compressor wheel attached to a single turbine wheel. They abandoned that setup after a few years for a conventional setup, which was better in most (all?) ways anyway.

    Thanks to emissions regulations, turbo technology is improving rapidly. Even designs that were cutting edge a few years ago are now archaic.
     
  16. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 En-Route

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    Ah ok, yeah the limit of my knowledge was in gas engines for the most part. I have seen some interesting setups in diesels, but never dug too much into them. Even at work we have a Detriot 8v92 that has a turbocharger feeding a supercharger. All my life I had always been told you couldn't supercharge a diesel for some reason, but that was obviously wrong.
     
  17. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach

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    My mistake, I was actually thinking of the 6.4L from '08 which had the sequential setup like the Audi engineer described. The 6.7L still uses the twin compressor setup I believe. There are performance kits for the Ford that even use a 3rd turbocharger for massive power. Either way, the design which Raptor-boy chose is destined for failure. I'm sure his Delrin bearing will fail in spectacular fashion, although it'll probably melt during his ground runs rather than while in the air.
     
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  18. mondtster

    mondtster En-Route

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    That application is a little different too. The 2 stroke detroits need the blower in order to move air so they even run, without the blower there would basically be no way to get air in the cylinders.

    But things can and have been compounded using a blower and a turbo. Back in the late '90s one of the magazines (I think it was Turbo) did a V6 swap in an MR2 and put the TRD blower that was available on it along with a turbo. I recall it working ok but I thought the performance seemed lacking compared to what I was expecting. Of course, engine controls have come a long way since then too and the outcome of a similar experiment may be quite a bit different if it was done today. There have been others since then too, it just isn't a real common approach to things.
     
  19. mondtster

    mondtster En-Route

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    The 6.7 has employed a single compressor since 2015...

    I wondered if you were referring to the 6.4 setup.
     
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  20. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    One thing for certain, if that guy tries to take his Raptor West he's going to wind up a smear on a mutant somewhere. That thing won't climb high enough.
     
  21. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach

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    I tend to forget about the 6.4L since it wasn't around too long and had a worse reputation than the 6.0L, especially when it came to catastrophic failure, lol.
     
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  22. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Line Up and Wait

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    Correct. When my 2011 6.7 ate an exhaust valve I put a 2015 engine in specifically because of the updated turbo.
     
  23. Racerx

    Racerx Line Up and Wait

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    He had help... Then they left. The progress he's made since slowed to a crawl.
     
  24. Racerx

    Racerx Line Up and Wait

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    My 2017 6.7 is on turbo number 3 with less than 25k on it...
     
  25. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach

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    I don't think that's normal, but that also isn't catastrophic engine failure. The 6.4L was notorious for failures that resulted in engine coolant getting dumped into the engine oil, oil dilution, and cracked pistons blowing the engine up. They were pretty responsive to performance mods though, for those who dared. The 6.4L is often considered by many to be "done" by 200K miles. Emissions equipment like DPF also plagued it. If there was ever a Powerstroke to avoid, it'd be the 6.4L.

    Sent from my SM-N976U using Tapatalk
     
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  26. Racerx

    Racerx Line Up and Wait

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    Go to pull out, usually when I need to get on it. And it only happens after it's sat for a bit. Goes...then look at turbo and it's pegged at 40. Then reduced engine power brings it to idle. Scarier than hell when you kind of pulled out in front of a semi and needed to go. Four trips to the dealer and they said I needed a new turbo at 16,000 miles. A year or so later and the same thing happens. Only this time it's out of warranty. I'd say 2 out of 10 times it'll do it. Shut off and start back up and it's usually back to normal. Not a turbo or a diesel guy. Just a dumb welder with a bone stock 550 service truck
     
  27. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach

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    Yeah, I'd be pretty puckered up as well if I pulled out and the turbo decided to give up the ghost. Losing a charge pipe is one thing, but shelling the turbo is another. Did they ever come up with a root cause for the failures? Seems odd that it would go through them in such a short period since it's not likely they'd get fouled with soot in such a short time frame. Oil feed line starvation?

    Sent from my SM-N976U using Tapatalk
     
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  28. Racerx

    Racerx Line Up and Wait

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    Havent had a chance to bring it in yet. Just started acting up. Once the initial pucker inducing event passes the rest of the trip is much less eventful. It'll happen maybe 2 out of 10 times and always at the initial acceleration. They clearly didn't resolve the root cause the first time. Just replaced the effect. They manually cycled the exhaust cleaning and I believe replaced the air filter in 2 of the first 4 visits. Said I'll be back in a week. I think I was back in 3 days. They could never replicate the event, but I got it on video now. But again, 3 year warranty was up last September.
     
  29. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach

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    Almost sounds like a VGT control issue where the vanes get stuck in a low boost condition when you are commanding high boost with the throttle. On my 6.0L that usually occurs due to buildup of deposits on the unison ring or vanes themselves from not "exercising the throttle" often enough. Most guys recommend pouring the coals to it once or twice a month just to ensure the VGT cycles through the entire range. Hope you get it sorted out, otherwise you may need a new driver's seat from all of that puckering!
     
  30. Racerx

    Racerx Line Up and Wait

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    The way I drive I put the hammer down more than a couple times a month. Put in some pretty stout seat covers for the puckering.
     
  31. Sierra_Hotel

    Sierra_Hotel Line Up and Wait

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    Once or twice a month? Psshh. It's once or twice a day around here :D
     
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  32. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Maybe we need a thread on diesel truck engines? The recent discussion seems pretty far afield from the Raptor.
     
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  33. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach

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    Not sure what you mean. We were discussing compound turbo arrangements and issues with the Audi diesel engine he's using in the Raptor. Sure, we're comparing the arrangement in modern diesel trucks because that's predominantly where you see diesels, but I'd say the comparison is still within bounds. The linked video that spurred the conversation was from an Audi engineer who was discussing why Peter's arrangement would cause a bunch of unnecessary heat and limiting engine performance. Now if it devolves into a Chevy vs Ford vs Ram discussion you can call foul. Besides, ol' Peter hasn't been doing much on his Raptor worth talking about lately.
     
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  34. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Well, carry on then!
     
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  35. aftCG

    aftCG Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Well, Ford obviously
     
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  36. jsstevens

    jsstevens Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Only if it's high wing! Fortunately: Ford-Tri-Motor-NC80407-EAA-0013.jpg
     
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  37. 3393RP

    3393RP En-Route

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    I traded in an '04 Excursion 6.0L for a new '08 F-250 with a 6.4L. it was a big mistake. Sold the F-250 six months later for an $8,000 loss. It sucked bad, 10-12 MPG vs 15-20, it ran in regen mode all the time, and was a pig to drive. Absolutely terrible engine.
     
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  38. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach

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    Lol, yeah that's what I've heard. The 6.4L was the one with the recall about flaming exhaust pipes because the regen was dumping absurd amounts of fuel into the system and reigniting after the cat. Some guys who like to mod them for high power seem to defend them fiercely, but most of the PowerStroke community is firmly in the "avoid at all cost" group. Most of the 6.0L crowd admit that it has it's design flaws, but when the couple of issues are rectified they're fairly reliable. Not 7.3L reliable, but good enough for most and much better as a daily driver engine than the 7.3L. At least Ford/GM/Ram got the emissions stuff *mostly* figured out with the DEF/DPF/regen equipment on the latest diesel variants, but they can still have some eye-opening repair bills when that stuff fouls up.

    I can't imagine what the Audi would do long-term for Peter's Raptor if they're as finicky as the typical Audi is in general!
     
  39. pilotrick

    pilotrick Pre-Flight

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    The most hated airplane builder posts a new video!
     
  40. jsstevens

    jsstevens Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    All this because the prop shaft is damaged and he doesn't want to replace it?