Ramp fees?

docmirror said:
Maybe that's an east coast thing. West of the Miss river, no way, no how.
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Agreed. I remember seeing this once. In the Chicago area.

Out west you have to call in advance and even then the receptionist may not know offhand. They have to go look it up!
 
cirrusmx said:
In another note, what really irks me is paying upwards of 150 dollars on a flight school to fly a 40 year old beat up arrow that doesn't even have a HSI. I would seriously consider in pitching in for one.
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Thread jack - funny you say this. My flight school/maintenance shop/FBO has a 1974 Skyhawk they rent for $130 an hour. The thing still has the original radios, the SAME engine (and I mean same - the thing must be 1000 over TBO. Since 1974. Same.), and from what I hear, was bought for about $12K. The plane is getting about 400 hours a year put on it in the year or two they've had it. That's well over $40,000 per year made on one plane. And the flight school isn't even their bread and butter as a business. It baffles me that the owner - wonderful, nice and super guy that he is - won't splurge a little on an overhaul, or at least some modern, reliable communication equipment. Or replacing the inoperative turn coordinator. Or heck, maybe even a fire extinguisher in the plane. I've half-jokingly made remarks that I'd contribute to any of those causes...but that the $5000 or so I spent flying the already-paid-for plane should be enough.

It treated me fine during my training and I loved training there...but there was always something popping up, it seemed. Since getting my PPL, I've moved to renting a Cherokee 140 with a brand-spanking-from-the-factory-new engine, a Garmin GTN 650 and a few other technical amenities. And it rents for $95 an hour. Affordable training like I had was great, but it's also nice to know that not EVERYTHING in the plane is 40 years old.


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I don't mind paying an overnight parking fee. (Most places this is really cheap.) And I will certainly buy fuel if appropriate when staying over or making a long round trip. However, I DO mind being charged $35 to use your ramp for 10 minutes to drop off a passenger or pick up an item for transport back to my lab. Kudos to Buffalo, Portland, North Philly, Trenton/Mercer, and Gaithersburg (Montg. Co.) for playing ball and being nice. Most airports are reasonable. I'll be back to them. Jeers to one metro upstate NY airport that insisted on a substantial ramp fee for a quick pickup. Ramp fees were not in the AFD or in the AOPA database. Not going back.

Cheers.
 
Although my experience level pales in comparison, I only remember a few places that have ramp fees posted. But, if they did, they might as well say, "If you can read this sign, you owe us money"!! :rofl::rofl:
I don't think I've paid a ramp fee more than once or twice, I call ahead to find out if they have a fee and 95% of the time I buy fuel.
Ramp fees tend to be in big cities and resort areas, not the general aviation airport in Podunk OK, it's to offset the high costs of these areas. I don't like them, and seldom pay them, but they are a reality of big city life.:rolleyes:
I'm in Pinehurst NC right now, landed in Southern Pines KSOP, $100.00 landing fee and $50.00 overnight!!:eek: Landing fee is waived with fuel, overnights aren't! There were maybe 5 transient airplanes on their huge ramp and it's the Women's US Open! :dunno: I came up two weeks ago, the Monday before the Men's US Open, and the ramp had maybe 15-20 planes, including N1AP :D
On the way out that evening I heard Phil Mickelson coming in, he was working the radios in his GIV, N800PM. :D

Ron Levy said:
Sometimes they only say there is a fee based on size, but in my experience over 40+ years, it's rare that an FBO with a ramp fee doesn't have some notice of that displayed.
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I'm thinking of selling signs to FBO's that read:


NO WHINING

It is simple math. It costs the FBO money to have that ramp be there.
And he is being right up front with it
Please buy some gas from me so I don't have to charge a ramp fee.
And all the cheapskates do is whine. :mad2:
​
 
N747JB said:
I don't think I've paid a ramp fee more than once or twice, I call ahead to find out if they have a fee and 95% of the time I buy fuel.
Ramp fees tend to be in big cities and resort areas, not the general aviation airport in Podunk OK, it's to offset the high costs of these areas. I don't like them, and seldom pay them, but they are a reality of big city life.:rolleyes:
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This is true. Ramp fees are also highly dependent on the size of the airplane. FBOs which do not charge small pistons often have a ramp fee for turboprops and jets. I would say that, when not making the FBOs minimum fuel purchase, we pay a ramp fee more often than not, and it is frequently in the multiple $100s.
 
Ron Levy said:
FBO's nearly always have their fees posted somewhere prominently visible as you walk in.
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Bullpoop. I rarely see this at most places I go to. ESPECIALLY those who charge ramp fees. Landmark or Signature wouldn't do anything so gauche (or obvious) like posting the fees or even how much fuel is going for. Some smaller FBOs might list the rental/fuel prices, but most likely they aren't charging the gouge fee.
 
chemgeek said:
Jeers to one metro upstate NY airport that insisted on a substantial ramp fee for a quick pickup. Ramp fees were not in the AFD or in the AOPA database. Not going back.

Cheers.
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Do tell.
 
paflyer said:
Do tell.
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KROC. My comment was "they must not want much GA business."

At my home drome, we don't charge ramp fees for non-turbine aircraft, and we waive our handling fee for turbine aircraft buying fuel. (We relucantly added a handling fee a few years ago to discourage turbine "drive-bys".) We want GA business, and want folks to come back often. I don't even think we charge parking fees. We don't expect to gouge users to make up for poor financial management of the airport. (And we don't gouge our taxpayers, either--we've been pretty much self-sufficient the last 5-7 years, including paying off a large debt from the previous contracted management. We are fully municipally owned and operated now.) If you encourage enough activity to move fuel, rent hangars, and repair aircraft, you don't have to gouge the customers.

Radical, isn't it?

Cheers.
 
Captain said:
I called my Chief Pilot and told him what went down and within an hour an email went out to all pilots informing us to NOT pay Atlantic for parking at customs unless services were requested.
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Atlantic anywhere can be a pain. My company has the same policy, never go to Atlantic.
 
chemgeek said:
KROC. My comment was "they must not want much GA business."

At my home drome, we don't charge ramp fees for non-turbine aircraft, and we waive our handling fee for turbine aircraft buying fuel. (We relucantly added a handling fee a few years ago to discourage turbine "drive-bys".) We want GA business, and want folks to come back often. I don't even think we charge parking fees. We don't expect to gouge users to make up for poor financial management of the airport. (And we don't gouge our taxpayers, either--we've been pretty much self-sufficient the last 5-7 years, including paying off a large debt from the previous contracted management. We are fully municipally owned and operated now.) If you encourage enough activity to move fuel, rent hangars, and repair aircraft, you don't have to gouge the customers.

Radical, isn't it?

Cheers.
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What makes turbine "drive-bys" so bad compared to piston "drive-bys"?

If your fuel price is competitive, and the aircraft (piston OR turbine) needs gas, they will buy from you.
 
When I used to have a personal plane and I used a crew car, I usually stop somewhere and pick up enough pizza to feed the crew at the airport. Never was asked to pay an over night fee or a landing fee. And I always tip the lineman...oops, line person.

As for the company planes, since we are a pt 135 operation, we usually buy gas instead of the ramp fee. We don't get any return for a ramp fee, however we will use the gas.
 
Zeldman said:
Atlantic anywhere can be a pain. My company has the same policy, never go to Atlantic.
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Atlantic isn't always bad, however, some of my worst FBO stories involve Atlantic.

My all time worst FBO story was calling in range to KSUN. Can't get them on the radio because they are in a Vally (which presumably has sun) so I call them on the Sat Phone. My co-pilot and I are starving as it's been a long day. With a tight turn coming up I figured we could have them order a pizza while we're 15 minutes out and it'd arrive just after we got there.

Get queen biatch on the phone and ask if there's a pizza joint that will deliver a pizza to the FBO. She says she can give me a list of phone numbers if I like. I explain I'm flying a plane and it'd be super handy if she'd please make the call. We just want a large pepperoni pizza with sausage.

She puts me on hold for a full 4 to 5 minutes. Comes back and says she has no way to pay them. I said we'll be there by the time the guy gets there to which she finds another problem. Back on hold I go. I waited for a couple minutes and then hung up stopping the phone bill at I'd guess the $80 mark.

We land and this cnut starts yelling at me for hanging up on her! Like I got nothing better to do at 20,000 feet than sit on hold for her to figure out how to order a pizza like EVERY OTHER FBO IVE EVER ASKED has been able to do with no problem.

Since then every fuel order I've ever placed at KSUN has been for min fuel. Screw their stupid Atlantic Bucks!
 
I have to smile at our local airport linemen, when they tell stories about the charter/fractional jet crews that visit the airport.
some crews are friendly and genuinely grateful for the extra help and willing assistance the linemen offer.
Others crews treat them like they are personal hired help and expect all kinds of service and accommodation, including waiter/waitress, errand boy, office assistant, and general "go for" attendant.
 
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An exception is Houston Exec out in Katy to the west. Big shade canopy, no ramp fee, and modest gas cost. They get all my business when I go to Houston. I think Exxon and Phillips corp use them as well.
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Great FBO!!! I flew in a few weeks ago to pick up my Mom and when I announced at 10 miles out they answered back asking if I needed any services, etc... First time that has happened. I told them I didn't and was just picking up. I greeted the lady at the desk and told her I was just picking up and she said, welcome...help yourself to water/cookies and pointed me to the restroom. The bad ass F1 Ferrari in the lobby is pretty fun to look at too. Apparently they are the same operation that runs the Austin Executive Airport as well - which I've never been to but heard it's equally as nice/well run.

On the way out I gave the line kid $10...easy pay for pushing/pulling chocks. :)
 
dans2992 said:
What makes turbine "drive-bys" so bad compared to piston "drive-bys"?

If your fuel price is competitive, and the aircraft (piston OR turbine) needs gas, they will buy from you.
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We don't generally have to move piston aircraft around the ramp--and turbine operators don't flinch at handling fees. Plus the piston drivers hardly ever stiff us on fuel. Some turbine aircraft were taking advantage of gratis handling and parking.
 
Captain said:
Atlantic isn't always bad, however, some of my worst FBO stories involve Atlantic.

My all time worst FBO story was calling in range to KSUN. Can't get them on the radio because they are in a Vally (which presumably has sun) so I call them on the Sat Phone. My co-pilot and I are starving as it's been a long day. With a tight turn coming up I figured we could have them order a pizza while we're 15 minutes out and it'd arrive just after we got there.

Get queen biatch on the phone and ask if there's a pizza joint that will deliver a pizza to the FBO. She says she can give me a list of phone numbers if I like. I explain I'm flying a plane and it'd be super handy if she'd please make the call. We just want a large pepperoni pizza with sausage.

She puts me on hold for a full 4 to 5 minutes. Comes back and says she has no way to pay them. I said we'll be there by the time the guy gets there to which she finds another problem. Back on hold I go. I waited for a couple minutes and then hung up stopping the phone bill at I'd guess the $80 mark.

We land and this cnut starts yelling at me for hanging up on her! Like I got nothing better to do at 20,000 feet than sit on hold for her to figure out how to order a pizza like EVERY OTHER FBO IVE EVER ASKED has been able to do with no problem.

Since then every fuel order I've ever placed at KSUN has been for min fuel. Screw their stupid Atlantic Bucks!
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I would love to hear her side of the story :rolleyes:
 
Cruiser said:
I have to smile at our local airport linemen, when they tell stories about the charter/fractional jet crews that visit the airport.
some crews are friendly and genuinely grateful for the extra help and willing assistance the linemen offer.
Others crews treat them like they are personal hired help and expect all kinds of service and accommodation, including waiter/waitress, errand boy, office assistant, and general "go for" attendant.
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If you fly people around in a charter/fractional/managed airplane you ARE the hired help, just as much as the line crew is. :D
 
chemgeek said:
We don't generally have to move piston aircraft around the ramp--and turbine operators don't flinch at handling fees. Plus the piston drivers hardly ever stiff us on fuel. Some turbine aircraft were taking advantage of gratis handling and parking.
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Ok, I can see if there's actual "handling" done (like moving the aircraft around on the ramp), that makes sense.
 
Hawka said:
I would love to hear her side of the story :rolleyes:
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No problem. Join up over at horribleFBOsofamerica.com and read her post.

Seriously, there's not much to the story. I don't treat FBO staff poorly. I tip. I smile and I have many CSRs across the country that know me by name and greet me warmly when I walk in.

I wasn't some jerk calling in demanding a pizza. I was a hungry line pilot asking for a little help getting the crew fed so we could make the tight turn and get our peeps out on time. Every single person is working for the same goal ultimately...to move the passengers on time. I've never had a problem at any other FBO with the request to order a pizza.
 
Everskyward said:
This is true. Ramp fees are also highly dependent on the size of the airplane. FBOs which do not charge small pistons often have a ramp fee for turboprops and jets. I would say that, when not making the FBOs minimum fuel purchase, we pay a ramp fee more often than not, and it is frequently in the multiple $100s.
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I don't get the much, much larger fee for jets and turboprops. I show up with my little 4 seater and pay nothing, or nearly so. But some jet shows up and pays a couple hundred for only slightly more effort on the FBO's part. What's the rational beyond "they have the money"? Is there one? Is the jet really demanding that much more service than I am? I would think the possibly of the larger plane buying a ton of fuel (perhaps literally) would make up for any additional hassle they might otherwise cause.
 
The larger the plane the more space they take up on the ramp. Fees are waived with fuel purchase but the larger the plane the more fuel you have to buy before you get fees waived too.

But yeah, it's mostly they have more money so they can pay more. It's true too. People who fly $80,000,000 airplanes dont usually bat an eye at a $300 ramp fee.
 
Everskyward said:
I have not found that to be the case, especially since fees almost always vary according to the size of the aircraft.
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Nor have I.
I also think the fees (or the waiving of said fees) are often based on the attitude of the aircraft owner/pilot.
 
JOhnH said:
Nor have I.
I also think the fees (or the waiving of said fees) are often based on the attitude of the aircraft owner/pilot.
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We fly into DTS a lot, sometimes weekly and I usually stay 2-3 days at a time, I always buy fuel, they give me a small discount. Out of 75-100 overnights in the last 5 years I don't think I've paid tie down fees more than a few times.:D I'm always pleasant, even when the forget a fuel order, and the girls at the counter love our dogs.:D When there is some discretion, the key to getting a break is to be a nice person and treat the staff with respect! :D Much easier to give a break to someone you like vs an a-hole that thinks he's special. :rolleyes:
 
The worst FBO story I had didn't even involve a landing fee. We were just arriving at BVY and just wanted to know where we could tie down. The FBO manager chewed us out for not telling him we were coming, yada yada yada. Finally the flight school next door who had heard all this took care of us: showing us where the transient tiedowns were (which were not managed by the FBO to begin with) and letting us use his phone to call the hotel to come pick us up.
 
I got to pay the Mac Daddy of fees today!! $150.00 per night to be chocked on the ramp at KSOP!! :eek::eek:The ramp was virtually vacant, one KA was departing when we loaded our bags, a Flex-Jet was loading people, a Turbo Commander was being worked on. Those 3, me and 5-6 piston singles that were tied down, probably based there.
I was not a happy camper!:mad2: I was expecting the same gouge that I got in December, either $50 or $75 per night, but this just pi$$3d me off!
I emailed the airport manager and updated AirNav, not expecting or even wanting anything, but it felt good to vent! :D They do waive the landing fee, $100.00 with fuel purchase!:rolleyes:
 
N747JB said:
I got to pay the Mac Daddy of fees today!! $150.00 per night to be chocked on the ramp at KSOP!! :eek::eek:The ramp was virtually vacant, one KA was departing when we loaded our bags, a Flex-Jet was loading people, a Turbo Commander was being worked on. Those 3, me and 5-6 piston singles that were tied down, probably based there.
I was not a happy camper!:mad2: I was expecting the same gouge that I got in December, either $50 or $75 per night, but this just pi$$3d me off!
I emailed the airport manager and updated AirNav, not expecting or even wanting anything, but it felt good to vent! :D They do waive the landing fee, $100.00 with fuel purchase!:rolleyes:
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This is the kind of thing i was wondering about. As an uncontrolled field, what is there to stop the poster from getting in his plane and flying away, never to return?
 
Captain said:
No problem. Join up over at horribleFBOsofamerica.com and read her post.

Seriously, there's not much to the story. I don't treat FBO staff poorly. I tip. I smile and I have many CSRs across the country that know me by name and greet me warmly when I walk in.

I wasn't some jerk calling in demanding a pizza. I was a hungry line pilot asking for a little help getting the crew fed so we could make the tight turn and get our peeps out on time. Every single person is working for the same goal ultimately...to move the passengers on time. I've never had a problem at any other FBO with the request to order a pizza.
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Next time you're going to be flying in and hungry get a list of local pizza joints and call them yourself. Google is your friend.
 
Captain said:
No problem. Join up over at horribleFBOsofamerica.com and read her post.

Seriously, there's not much to the story. I don't treat FBO staff poorly. I tip. I smile and I have many CSRs across the country that know me by name and greet me warmly when I walk in.

I wasn't some jerk calling in demanding a pizza. I was a hungry line pilot asking for a little help getting the crew fed so we could make the tight turn and get our peeps out on time. Every single person is working for the same goal ultimately...to move the passengers on time. I've never had a problem at any other FBO with the request to order a pizza.
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I'm sorry, Captain, you've painted a pretty full picture of the kind of person you are. You just called up this gal and told her to order a pizza for you? Nice. Very nice.

I'm not surprised you get the "full treatment" of a full fee schedule at every FBO you visit. :rofl:

A word of advice: ****oles get treated worse in pretty much every area of life. I'm not saying you're an ****ole. I'm just stating a fact about ****oles. Just for the record, you're NOT an ****ole.

;)
 
Flew into KSUS (spirit of St. Louis airport) today only because I had to. I avoid that airport like the plague. They cater to kerosene and everything is expensive.

But I had to go...PnP trip and the pilot I was handing the dogs off to is based there. Met at Millionaire. Thought of this thread.

Walked in, peed (isn't that the first thing we all have to do?) walked back out, studied the outside of the building, walked back in and studied the posters in the vestibule, waked the rest of the way back in and studied the walls of the main lobby.

Guess what? Yeah, you didn't have do guess did you? No mention of ramp fees anthwhere.

Talked to the lovely young lady behind the counter and she said "ramp fees are $20 for a 182."

"Do you waive them for compassion flights?" No, but we allow 20 minutes on our ramp without charge.

I walked back out and shot the **** with the guys working planes. "BTW, what's the ramp fee here?"

"$50 for you're plane."

"Do you waive the fee for compassion flights?"

"Yup! We love dogs!"

"What's this about the 20 minute limit?"

"WTF are you talking about?"

So much for fees being standardized and published.
 
timwinters said:
Flew into KSUS (spirit of St. Louis airport) today only because I had to. I avoid that airport like the plague. They cater to kerosene and everything is expensive.

But I had to go...PnP trip and the pilot I was handing the dogs off to is based there. Met at Millionaire. Thought of this thread.

Walked in, peed (isn't that the first thing we all have to do?) walked back out, studied the outside of the building, walked back in and studied the posters in the vestibule, waked the rest of the way back in and studied the walls of the main lobby.

Guess what? Yeah, you didn't have do guess did you? No mention of ramp fees anthwhere.

Talked to the lovely young lady behind the counter and she said "ramp fees are $20 for a 182."

"Do you waive them for compassion flights?" No, but we allow 20 minutes on our ramp without charge.

I walked back out and shot the **** with the guys working planes. "BTW, what's the ramp fee here?"

"$50 for you're plane."

"Do you waive the fee for compassion flights?"

"Yup! We love dogs!"

"What's this about the 20 minute limit?"

"WTF are you talking about?"

So much for fees being standardized and published.
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So who runs the charge on your credit card? The lovely young lady behind the counter or the guys working the planes? If the answer is the lovely young lady then you probably need to listen to her ;)
 
timwinters said:
None of them...'cause I left!
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Were you intending on buying fuel?

Or were you there just to make use of their fine estabishment, pee in their toilet, maybe steal some cookies and coffee and generally just freeload?
 
Hawka said:
Were you intending on buying fuel?

Or were you there just to make use of their fine estabishment, pee in their toilet, maybe steal some cookies and coffee and generally just freeload?
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Maybe you can't read.

I was there because I flew over five hours today transporting two English Bulldogs and two little ****s...ummm...Tzus from Russellville, AR to St. Louis.

Something I do for others...not me.

No cookies, no coffee, just one flush of the urinal. I'll send them $0.50 for the water if you like.

And I was gone within the 20 minute time limit stated.
 
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timwinters said:
Maybe you can't read.

I was there because I flew over four hours today transporting two English Bulldogs and two little ****s...ummm...Tzus from Russellville, AR to St. Louis.

Something I do for others...not me.

No cookies, no coffee, just one flush of the urinal. I'll send them $0.50 for the water if you like.

And I was gone within the 20 minute time limit stated.

IOW

F*ck you!
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Well not all of us are dog lovers. In some parts of the world dogs are eaten as food. This is a meaningful as you saying your transported cows from one place to another. As you know some people eat cows. I love eating animals myself. If I could eat a dog I would. I've eaten bear. What's the difference?

So what if you were carrying dogs. Some people have to make a living. They have to pay for that fancy place you want you swap your animals at. How are they supposed to do that?
 
I think that post 11 min ago is completely out of line and should be pulled.
 
One of the best FBOs I stopped at was Panorama in Westchester. Free cheesecake, a ride to a local restaurant, and a pickup when we were ready. Another was Rockland Me for the Owlshead Transportation Museum. First time we got a ride from the Museum's Blue'smobile, and the second was from the local FBO. Another airport, and fbo, gave me their crew car because they were busy and only two. It was a nearly new Hertz.
I don't mind ramp fees or landing fees so long as the business really does offer service. But just charging for stopping for a pick up will really torq me off. Surely you can equate these fees to cars. Reasonable is one thing, extraordinary is something else.
 
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