Ramp fees?

Z06_Mir said:
You're not the one getting nickel and dimed on a regular basis by people who aren't even paying the bill.
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So let me see if I have this straight. The FBO charges me a ramp fee, facility fee, tie down fee (my plane doesn't even have tie down points), GPU fee, and security fee and when I make a joke about being a smaller plane I'm the one 'nickel and dimeing'?

Do I have that right? I never said I actually ever paid a Seminole rate, I said I just make a joke while she's looking it up. She laughs, I laugh and it passes time while she looks.

You are the one with a problem here, not me.

And the other peoples money thing is BS. Do you suppose I should just blindly spend 'other people's money' that I'm entrusted with? If I'm mis-billed should we all just shrug our shoulders and say, "oh well, it's just some rich dudes cash so it's a free for all"? I think your attitude blows as you seem to think the FBO is entitled to 'other people's money' and those pesky pilots are standing in the way. The nerve of them not letting you go through their wallets and take what you like!
 
As much as I hate to say it, I'm siding with Captain on this one.

[Comment about the desert, where its particulates end up, withheld]
 
timwinters said:
Can't really fault a guy for not putting an unapproved part on airplane for someone he doesn't know from Adam. For all he knew you might have been an FAA guy trying to set him up.
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What was 'unapproved' about the part? It has a data plate with the part and model number, and that part/model number is correct for my engine and plane. It would have taken 20 seconds to bench test it with a battery and watch the bendix work.

I guess there's a segment of aviation that runs on papers, and forms, and documents, then there's another segment of aviation that runs on metals, and fuels, oil and rubber.

Meh - I was about ten seconds from cabbing over to Autozone, buying a few sockets, and putting it in right there on the ramp myself, then flying home. In fact, if Cutter hadn't helped out, that's exactly what I would have done.
 
Captain said:
So let me see if I have this straight. The FBO charges me a ramp fee, facility fee, tie down fee (my plane doesn't even have tie down points), GPU fee, and security fee and when I make a joke about being a smaller plane I'm the one 'nickel and dimeing'?

Do I have that right? I never said I actually ever paid a Seminole rate, I said I just make a joke while she's looking it up. She laughs, I laugh and it passes time while she looks.

You are the one with a problem here, not me.

And the other peoples money thing is BS. Do you suppose I should just blindly spend 'other people's money' that I'm entrusted with? If I'm mis-billed should we all just shrug our shoulders and say, "oh well, it's just some rich dudes cash so it's a free for all"? I think your attitude blows as you seem to think the FBO is entitled to 'other people's money' and those pesky pilots are standing in the way. The nerve of them not letting you go through their wallets and take what you like!
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See below. Don't contradict yourself, Captain.
Captain said:
I play with that too. While she's trying to figure out what to charge for a Piaggio I tell her its a 'light twin...sorta like a Seminole'.
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I am just SO TIRED of being yelled at and taken advantage of by people. I've been around the game long enough where I can hold my own... but when people start to yell at my newer coworkers, or the older (elderly) ones that is where I break. Just remember, the person at the front doesn't set the prices, the taxes, the landing fees.... the city probably sets most of it (it's their runway and often their ramp) and we're not all as dumb as you make us out to be.
 
Z06_Mir said:
I am just SO TIRED of being yelled at and taken advantage of by people. I've been around the game long enough where I can hold my own... but when people start to yell at my newer coworkers, or the older (elderly) ones that is where I break. Just remember, the person at the front doesn't set the prices, the taxes, the landing fees.... the city probably sets most of it (it's their runway and often their ramp) and we're not all as dumb as you make us out to be.
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Right. It's not the CSRs or the line techs who set the policies and landing fees. If one of them lets you slide they may be risking their job if someone in management finds out. As was mentioned in another thread (the one about the FAA), it's often the customer-facing folks who take the brunt of the abuse.

On the other hand, in the specific case about Captain claiming the Piaggio was like a Seminole, I think he was joking around with the CSR. But of course that is hard to tell when related on the internet. The only reason I think so is that I have heard other pilots do similar and they do it with a smile. The CSR knows they are kidding.
 
Z06_Mir said:
See below. Don't contradict yourself, Captain.
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I'm not seeing a contradiction there. The second quote doesn't say whether he was being serious or not.

I think we all need to get out of the habit of assuming the worst about each other.
 
Z06_Mir said:
See below. Don't contradict yourself, Captain.





I am just SO TIRED of being yelled at and taken advantage of by people. I've been around the game long enough where I can hold my own... but when people start to yell at my newer coworkers, or the older (elderly) ones that is where I break. Just remember, the person at the front doesn't set the prices, the taxes, the landing fees.... the city probably sets most of it (it's their runway and often their ramp) and we're not all as dumb as you make us out to be.
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You're introducing new facts not in evidence. Nobody but you is talking about yelling at CSRs, elderly or young,...or suggesting CSRs set rates. If you have some weird kink where you hate pilots but love pilot forums that's not my fault.

Its a joke. 'Lighten up Francis'.
 
Captain said:
You're introducing new facts not in evidence. Nobody but you is talking about yelling at CSRs, elderly or young,...or suggesting CSRs set rates. If you have some weird kink where you hate pilots but love pilot forums that's not my fault.

Its a joke. 'Lighten up Francis'.
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Last time I checked I was a pilot :dunno:
 
Z06_Mir said:
Last time I checked I was a pilot :dunno:
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That's great news. Hopefully you are nice to CSRs and speak cordially to them. Maybe ask how their day is going. Ask politely for services and even use humor when appropriate.

Lots of times when I drop off the crew car I'll say, "thanks for the car, but you might want to get it looked at. Has a slight shimmy whenever it gets over 120 mph". That doesn't make me a jerk, it's a joke and they know what a joke is. Hopefully it brings a moment of levity to their work day. If they crack a smile then it's worth it.

Maybe an Internet forum has issues making obvious what's so plain to see in person. Maybe the post above is correct and we should think about that before assuming the worst of our fellow posters. We gather here as a group because we all share a pretty awesome activity...we freaking FLY!

Life's too short.
 
Captain said:
Maybe an Internet forum has issues making obvious what's so plain to see in person. Maybe the post above is correct and we should think about that before assuming the worst of our fellow posters. We gather here as a group because we all share a pretty awesome activity...we freaking FLY!



Life's too short.
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You feeling okay? Yesterday you claimed all I do is watch Fox News and pray. ;) I suspect you think the worse of me for it. ;) ;) ;)

(Both of which are rarely true. Heh.)
 
denverpilot said:
You feeling okay? Yesterday you claimed all I do is watch Fox News and pray. ;) I suspect you think the worse of me for it. ;) ;) ;)

(Both of which are rarely true. Heh.)
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You screwed up my quote. I said,

Captain said:
Stop watching fox would be my advise, but it's up to you. Pray on it,
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Pretty open minded on my part I thought. Did you pray on it?
 
Good CSRs are the bread and butter of a quality FBO, IMO. I can't count how many times I've looked like a hero to my passengers only because I had awesome CSRs working behind the scenes.
 
Agree Kayoh,

It's a team effort but the CSR is the conductor of the operation. A bad CSR can bring the whole thing to a stop while a good CSR makes the operation flow smoothly. Fortunately there are many more of the later than the former.

FBO's can do their part by staffing this position properly. The few times the wheels come off the tracks is when the front desk is under staffed and the CSR gets swamped.
 
NoHeat said:
I am still trying to figure this out. When I walk into an FBO, is that the person behind the counter? Or someone in a back office?
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The person behind the counter.
 
NoHeat said:
I am still trying to figure this out. When I walk into an FBO, is that the person behind the counter? Or someone in a back office?
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The person behind the counter - the one you interact with once you walk inside. At a small FBO, this person might not technically be a CSR - it could be whomever happens to be manning the desk at that moment. For example, at an FBO that also serves as a flight school, it might be a CFI helping out behind the desk.

But at the bigger FBOs, they have dedicated CSRs, and they serve as the gatekeeper to the services you need, be it fuel, catering, a crew car, or whatever.
 
So in plain English, a CSR is basically a receptionist at a big FBO. Got it. Thanks.
 
NoHeat said:
So in plain English, a CSR is basically a receptionist at a big FBO. Got it. Thanks.
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You must not understand that the whole goal of pilots is to speak in as much jargon, slang, and acronym as possible in order to communicate as poorly as possible but feel superior to those who don't know the "language".

The "CSR" at one FBO I frequent is a 6' cowboy wearing boots, drives the fuel truck, fills up the planes, parks the planes, ties them down, runs the credit cards, schedules the lessons, chases down the CFI's, etc...

Yeah, he is behind the counter, so he must be the CSR.....
 
CSR is hardly a term created by pilots. It's an industry standard job description in service industries / retail
 
CSR = Customer Service Rep. Had to say it.
 
A CSR also gets on the PA and boards the medallion members right after the UMs and chairs.
 
Captain said:
This post takes it. Shows a complete bias and lack of understanding of aviation.

First, when you say 'demand ice' that throws a spin on it that everyone knows isn't there. Nobody slams there fist on the counter and declares they must have a bag of ice or else. They instead ask for a bag of ice 99.9999% of the time.

Also, its not like its free. With ramp and facility fees the cost of ice is covered.

So, why would you come here and say jet crews are demanding ice?

Also, its ignorant to say some jet isn't buying fuel even though there is space in the tanks. I don't even know where to start with that one. When I buy fuel 'space in the tank' is not even a consideration. I figure what I need with alternates and reserves in mind. I calculate performance for the departure and landing field. I consider weight and balance of the aircraft and then I consider price of fuel between here and the next stop or possibly 2nd stop.

I weigh fuel costs against ramp fees and make a decision. When you say 'they don't even buy gas despite having room in their tanks' it totally discounts all that goes into a fuel purchase decision and way over simplifies it.

Don't hate the player, hate the game and the FBO sets the rules of that game.
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Do you consider the cost to have line crew follow your flight to marshall you in to a red carpet, get your limo next to your plane, provide a free crew car and nice crew lounge, free ice and coffee? The players drive the investment and costs of a premium line service the 172 guys don't use.
 
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