radios for the 182

Tom-D

Tom-D

Taxi to Parking
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Tom-D
The aircraft is now equipped with 2 KX170s driving 2 VOR nav heads, 1 King ADF with indicator.

The aircraft mission next couple hundred hours, student pilot, thru instrument training.

My thoughts are

1 good moving map GPS, Plus ADSB- in and out Transponder. 4 place intercom.

Suggestions?
 
Ours was old-equipped. We now have a GNS530/GNS430 and G5s. You have to yank the bandaid off on this one and let your wallet bleed.
 
Pull the ADF and one of the KX-170s out (and probably one of the nav heads unless its compatible). And, put in a GNS-430 (non-WAAS would be ok unless you want it to get 2020 compliant), and a compatible nav/head and annunciator. Boom! --- Now you've got VOR/ILS and RNAV capability, and retain com/nav redundancy.
 
pigpenracing said:
good and cheapView attachment 65743
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Completely useless for the stated mission. No glideslope, VFR only GPS, cannot fly in the Seattle area after 2020.

I like my GNS430w fine, actually prefer it over the GTN650 usability wise, but would not pay to install one now. It’s only a matter of time before Garmin drops support for them, installation will cost the same as the 650, and the hardware cost is only slightly lower.
 
I’d vote GTN650 & GTX 345 or 335, and consider replacing one of the 170s with a Mitchell digital slide-in replacement. Leave the ADF alone if you can spare the space, I like ‘em even if the ground stations are dwindling. A G5 to replace the DG gives you a nice HSI plus a backup attitude indicator, at not much additional expense since you will be needing a new CDI for the new gpscomm anyway.
 
How much would a new pilot use a very expensive GPS moving map?
 
wilkersk said:
Pull the ADF and one of the KX-170s out (and probably one of the nav heads unless its compatible). And, put in a GNS-430 (non-WAAS would be ok unless you want it to get 2020 compliant), and a compatible nav/head and annunciator. Boom! --- Now you've got VOR/ILS and RNAV capability, and retain com/nav redundancy.
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I may get you involved in this up grade.
 
Tom-D said:
How much would a new pilot use a very expensive GPS moving map?
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You're the one who suggested it in the original post. "My thoughts are 1 good moving map GPS." My opinion is that installing a used GNS430 or 430W is throwing away money at this point, as they are nearing obsolescence, and they oddly are almost as expensive to buy used as a more modern box. Your choice is then basically a GTN650 or an Avidyne IFD440.

Also, you said that the intended use was for thru instrument training. The panel mounted GPSMAP 696 as shown above has zero value for that mission.
 
How about removing all the equipment there now, and install 1 instrument hole Trig radio 1 trig Transponder ADSB and a blank off plate and a docking station for a iPad and fore flight or ?
 
My opinion is that non-certified hardware like the Ipad gets updated way too rapidly to spend the money on a panel-mounted installation, but is a great addition as a portable yolk-mounted display.
 
Tom, I have a David Clark 4-place intercom, yours for the asking. Removed when I did my audio panel upgrade.
 
Does one of the nav heads have glideslope? If so, put in an ADSB transponder with ADSB out & in. Use an Android tablet or iPad for your moving map. Leave the adf so the student can listen to the ballgame on the AM radio during long boring cross-countries. 2-place (or 4-place) intercom for sure.

Basic students through instrument/commercial should NOT have all the bells and whistles of glass panels. I want my students to come home in one piece if the glass crap barfs its guts in the clag. I will NOT teach a student that doesn't want to learn with minimal reliance on gadgets and no reliance on looking out the window.

Anachronistic? Perhaps. But as yet after 50 years in the right seat I haven't had a student scratch the paint.

Jim
 
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Lots of depends on. First, who's doing the installation, and who's paying? The reason I ask is if you're paying for installation makes sense to put in the expensive equipment. You're going to be blowing money on the labor to get the thing in the panel, might as well put in the best box.

Second, how old is the aircraft and what's it likely to be worth? I didn't out a 430 in my Mooney because it was old and wasn't likely to be worth much more despite the expensive GPS. Skylanes are a different animal, though.

Third, what really is the mission? If it really is just IFR training I'd not change a thing. Doesn't take a lot of training to use a GPS, on the other hand if you can find your way around with old equipment then you really know your stuff. Moreover, it makes no sense at all to do such expensive upgrades on an airplane you're going to sell in a year or two.
 
A couple of local 182s have a 430W/Appareo or a 530W/345, both are nice setups. The price differential to a 650/750 is relatively small as these things go.
 
Tom-D said:
The aircraft is now equipped with 2 KX170s driving 2 VOR nav heads, 1 King ADF with indicator.

The aircraft mission next couple hundred hours, student pilot, thru instrument training.

My thoughts are

1 good moving map GPS, Plus ADSB- in and out Transponder. 4 place intercom.

Suggestions?
Click to expand...

Add a new audio panel with intercom.
Dump both 155s and the ADF.
Lynx9000
GTN650.
 
Clip4 said:
Add a new audio panel with intercom.
Dump both 155s and the ADF.
Lynx9000
GTN650.
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If it had 155s in it we would not be talking.
KX170s 1 is missing the other won't turn on.
 

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Also, straight KX-170's are illegal. KX-170B would be legal, but not overly desirable.
 
I trained in a G1000 and "thought" that is what I would ultimately want in my plane since I like gadgets.

Wound up with a 182P that has a 430W and upgraded the 330 to ES for ADS-B out...add in my Stratus 2 and Foreflight it does everything that I want and need it to all the way through IFR.

If I were starting from scratch I would go 650W or better with a PSE Com panel, second basic radio and ADS-B Transponder for ADS-B out and use the Stratus for ADS-B in.
 
Whoever bought it bought the wrong aircraft. If its just for training it should have had functional radios to begin with. Really dumb move, and there is no good countermove.

Throwing in bargain basement cheap boxes is just sending good money after bad. The aircraft isn't that old, and if its in nice shape might fetch a fair price at sale, allowing the owner to recoup some of his costs. I'd put in a good modern radio and a good modern nav com, along with the ADSB transponder of your choice. The owner might recoup some of the money at sale.

Me, I'd sell the thing for what I could get and buy an ugly airplane with some radios and navigation equipment, which is what he should have done in the first place.
 
steingar said:
Whoever bought it bought the wrong aircraft. If its just for training it should have had functional radios to begin with.
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This aircraft was bought new by Dady, (1973) it is being brought out of storage, and upgraded to fit today's needs.

WE got parts today, back to work :)
 

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Tom-D said:
We knew that, but when they don't work ? ?
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I was just pointing out that unless they were the "B" model you were going to want to junk them anyway.

While you can do instrument training with old, non-flip flop nav coms as long as there is a functional GS on one of them, frankly I don't agree with the argument that this somehow makes you a better instrument pilot. Better you learn how to use a proper IFR GPS (this is the wave of the future and often the only way in to some airports), than dealing with antiquated and disappearing NDB approaches.
 
Tom-D said:
This aircraft was bought new by Dady, (1973) it is being brought out of storage, and upgraded to fit today's needs.

WE got parts today, back to work :)
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There is nothing wrong with investing in an old airframe and bringing it to modern standards. Doing so in the right airframe can even help ameliorate the financial burden of the upgrades. But doing so for an aircraft who's mission is training and little else is folly.
 
steingar said:
There is nothing wrong with investing in an old airframe and bringing it to modern standards. Doing so in the right airframe can even help ameliorate the financial burden of the upgrades. But doing so for an aircraft who's mission is training and little else is folly.
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Nice 182s are not easy to find. The ones full off corrosion never sell, the nice ones sell within a few days of being listed, I know, we tried to buy about a dozen different ones. Its much worse than real-estate as mechanics that have been working on each of them know which ones are worth buying and seem to buy a lot of those themselves on the spot with no prebuy (no prebuy needed when they have already been working on it) to resell or other. The one we did buy was listed the day my Dad called, they drove about 10 hours that day to look at it.
 
bnt83 said:
Nice 182s are not easy to find. The ones full off corrosion never sell, the nice ones sell within a few days of being listed, I know, we tried to buy about a dozen different ones. Its much worse than real-estate as mechanics know which ones are worth buying and seem to buy a lot of those themselves to resell or other. The one we did buy was listed the day my Dad called, they drove about 10 hours that day to look at it.
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Fine. If its just for training buy a damn Cherokee. Lots of them around, plenty with IFR equipment, and people don't go ape**** over them for no discernible reason.
 
steingar said:
Fine. If its just for training buy a damn Cherokee. Lots of them around, plenty with IFR equipment, and people don't go ape**** over them for no discernible reason.
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This 182 is what they have, this 182 is what they will keep. The Family is getting this 182 out of storage so their son can learn to fly, when that is done who know what the kid will do with it.
This A/C was placed in storage properly, It still looks new inside and out. It's getting equipment up grades, and new tires, and other rubber stuff, and will serve the purpose well.
It's kind of stupid to advocate they buy another aircraft when they have an aircraft as nice as this one.
 
flyingron said:
I was just pointing out that unless they were the "B" model you were going to want to junk them anyway.

While you can do instrument training with old, non-flip flop nav coms as long as there is a functional GS on one of them, frankly I don't agree with the argument that this somehow makes you a better instrument pilot. Better you learn how to use a proper IFR GPS (this is the wave of the future and often the only way in to some airports), than dealing with antiquated and disappearing NDB approaches.
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Believe the kids primary CFI will have a big influence in this decision. And most likely Dady will too.
But you know I'll give advice. :)
 
Tom-D said:
It's kind of stupid to advocate they buy another aircraft when they have an aircraft as nice as this one.
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You've presented this as a training aircraft that will be discarded as soon as the training is accomplished. All I've said is it was the wrong aircraft to start with, one that is purchased with a training mission should have the stuff needed fort he training. The reposte was "good Skylanes are hard to find" to which I said "fine, get a different aircraft". See?

Now if you parsed it out incorrectly, i.e. that the persons is going to keep said aircraft and have adventures in it, then getting a nice airframe and putting in radios does make sense. But buying a nice though under-equipped airframe for a training mission makes no sense at all. Buying a nice airplane to train in makes no sense, since student pilots tend to be a bit hard on airframes.
 
steingar said:
You've presented this as a training aircraft that will be discarded as soon as the training is accomplished.
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No one mentioned "DISCARD" except you. Like always you read into a post what you want to see.
 
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