Radio licenses--has ANYONE needed one?

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4CornerFlyer

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4CornerFlyer
Yep, the radio license topic has come around again. ("Reasons to register your aircraft" in this forum.) Not quite as debated as the issue of what the safety pilot can log during simulated instrument practice, but still a perennial favorite.

There are a lot of pilots using this board who have flown to other countries. I've done about a dozen int'l flights. Is there anyone, anywhere who has ever been asked for an aircraft radio license or radiotelephone operator's certificate--after 1997 or whenever the rule was changed so that the radio license was no longer required in the US, forever ruining the old ARROW acronym?

I am convinced that these papers rank right up there with elephant repellant as things you need to carry in your airplane. Never know when you might encounter an unfriendly elephant .

When we ask about ramp checks, there are always plenty of us willing to share the experience here. Surely someone must have been asked for the radio stuff. Come out of the closet and tell us.

Or are these things about as useful as CB radio licenses were in the 70's?

Jon
 
On many trips into and through Canada in many different airplanes, I've never been asked to show my (now yellowed, sere) radio operator permit.

And, although I can't speak for the authorities in Canada, I have heard that they don't care, won't ask you for it, etc. They're much more concerned about whether you're carrying firearms, booze, etc.
 
Back in 96 when I bought my plane, I actually applied for one. Sent $75 to the FCC or some govt agency. The check wasn't cashed for a longtime, and one day it came back with a note saying the license was no longer required. When I flew to the bahamas first time, i was told I needed one. I related my earlier experience to an aopa advisor and they said a copy of an application was good as a "temporary" for some 30 or 60days...something like that. So we just filled it out, tore off our copy and threw the rest away. That was 6yrs ago. I don't know what they require now, but I always thought it was kind of a funny story. tc
 
Never been asked for operators or station license when crossing back and forth between Canada/US. Neither are required within the US or within Canada. The only "requirement" involves the international border crossing requirements under the ICAO. Urban myth has it that US Customs sometimes ask for them but I know no one who has been.
 
4CornerFlyer said:
Yep, the radio license topic has come around again. ("Reasons to register your aircraft" in this forum.) Not quite as debated as the issue of what the safety pilot can log during simulated instrument practice, but still a perennial favorite.

There are a lot of pilots using this board who have flown to other countries. I've done about a dozen int'l flights. Is there anyone, anywhere who has ever been asked for an aircraft radio license or radiotelephone operator's certificate--after 1997 or whenever the rule was changed so that the radio license was no longer required in the US, forever ruining the old ARROW acronym?

I am convinced that these papers rank right up there with elephant repellant as things you need to carry in your airplane. Never know when you might encounter an unfriendly elephant .

When we ask about ramp checks, there are always plenty of us willing to share the experience here. Surely someone must have been asked for the radio stuff. Come out of the closet and tell us.

Or are these things about as useful as CB radio licenses were in the 70's?

Jon
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I have a radio operators license with an additional element 7 (GMDSS) that I have to have for reasons other than flying, but the only people who have asked me for my license has been the USCG for my license and the Nigerian govt because they'd try to extort some more money out of me if I didn't have one.
 
Can we carry this topic one more step? How about that handheld transceiver that you carry around with you? I understand that if you are not operating the radio from a registered airplane that you must have a license. What is your opinions towards this? Has anyone ever been asked to provide a license for your handheld? Though I only use mine at the airport, I am not always in or even near my airplane. Sometimes I will radio my brother as he departs to wish him a good flight. I've heard flight instructors use them to talk to the student pilots on there first solo.
 
In 35 years of flying, I've never been asked for my RRTO or aircraft station license except on a practical test back when they were required. But the same is true for my pilot and medical certficates, except to get access back to my plane at BWI post-9/11. Does that mean I would fly without them? Not. It's a rule, and that's that for me. If I start picking and choosing which rules I will obey, I'm headed down a slippery slope that ends in a great fiery pit.

Sure, I know we all skirt the rules once in a while -- I guarantee there isn't an airplane flying that isn't fully and completely airworthy by the letter of the law. But there's a difference between unknowing/unintentional violation and deliberate flaunting, and that's the line I draw. And if that isn't enough for you, consider the consequences in this post-9/11, Patriot Act era, if you just happen to pick the wrong day and the wrong Customs inspector to show up without legally required papers. It just ain't worth it.
 
I've got the licenses. Have never been asked by Canadian or US officials to show them. I keep them anyway. The law is the law even if it isn't rigorously enforced.
 
I have had one since 1967 and have never been asked for it.
 
I've never been asked for it, but know pilots that have stated they were asked for it. Since they had it, don't know what would have occurred if they didn't have one.

Seems to me that if you breeze through, not an issue. If they decide to really dig in, it could prevent a fine or delay--and, as has been said, it is the law.

Best,

Dave
 
This is an interesting discussion as it relates to Canada. When I took my check ride in 2001 the DPE stated that the requirement for both licenses when flying to Canada had been repealed. Now, when I check the FCC Rules I find no such exemption. I know that I do not have to have any extra paperwork when operating my amateur radio equipment in Canada. Nor do Canadians operating here. We have automatic reciprocity. Our club planes all have radio station licenses. I guess if I ever get the urge to fly up north of the border I'm just going to bite the bullet and get the RRTO license. Like Ron, I'm not into causing trouble with folks who can make even more trouble for me. It's not worth it.
 
Ghery said:
as it relates to Canada. When I took my check ride in 2001 the DPE stated that the requirement for both licenses when flying to Canada had been repealed.
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The issue with your choice of words is when you state "flying TO Canada". That statement is incorrect. It would have been correct if you had stated "flying IN Canada". It is NOT a requirement for flying in Canada just as it is not a requirement for flying in the US. It is the "getting to" which causes the issue as it is an ICAO treaty requirement (to which both Canada and the US are signatories) which requires it for crossing an international border. A nit picky point, but technically customs can ask for it after you have crossed a border.
 
I am certainly not suggesting than anyone violate a regulation. Of course, these radio licenses are not FAA requirements; those rules come from the FCC, the same people who say it illegal to use your cell phone 1 foot off the ground. Of course, we know from previous threads that no-one does that. And the point about using handhelds is a good one.

I am not certain of this, but I do not believe there is any penalty for failure to have such a license; ie Customs cannot fine you $5000 or seize your plane, as they can if you do not have proper registation. Someone correct me if I am wrong on that point.

You will be asked for your pilot's license, medical certificate, proof of citizenship and aircraft registration on every entry to the US by a Customs inspector. Those things are on their checklist. A radio license is not on their checklist, and my theory is that no-one has ever been asked to produce one since the domestic requirement ended, circa 1997.

Still waiting to hear from anyone who has dusted off one of those radio licenses in the past 8+ years.

Jon
 
Still have the RT license that I got in 1960. I was asked by the Examiner to show it to him when I went for my Private Check Ride. That was in 1961. I do remember being asked if I had one on my Commercial Check Ride but did not have to show it. That was in 1962. Since then never been asked by anyone for the ticket. Right now it is still quite readable, Amazing.

John J
 
4CornerFlyer said:
I am not certain of this, but I do not believe there is any penalty for failure to have such a license; ie Customs cannot fine you $5000 or seize your plane, as they can if you do not have proper registation. Someone correct me if I am wrong on that point.
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You are effectively wrong. While Customs can't fine you, the FCC can if Customs tells them. In addition, in this post-9/11 world, anything out of order is just asking for hassle. And Customs can hold your plane (and you) until everything is in order. They can also perform a very destructive search of your plane, and they aren't on the hook for the damage even if they don't find anything.

It just ain't worth it.
 
The link is http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/rp.html
In typical governemntalese, you need two forms, a generic payment form, the request form, and I am unable to find anything that says how much to pay. When I last did this about ten years ago, it was $105 for five years.
 
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4CornerFlyer said:
I am not certain of this, but I do not believe there is any penalty for failure to have such a license; ie Customs cannot fine you $5000 or seize your plane, as they can if you do not have proper registation. Someone correct me if I am wrong on that point.
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Well, Jon, actually they can. They'll cite whatever section of USC requires a station license. That is criminal law, which Customs can enforce. They may CHOOSE not to, but sometimes the FCC and Customs work together.
 
wsuffa said:
Well, Jon, actually they can. They'll cite whatever section of USC requires a station license. That is criminal law, which Customs can enforce. They may CHOOSE not to, but sometimes the FCC and Customs work together.
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If they choose to make our life miserable, they can say under the "progressive inspection" criteria, that something was out of order and a search was then reasonable. You will find all your panels ripped out and if they then find anything not perfectly in order, the plane is theirs.

It's just not worth leaving the country without everything in order. And DON'T take a parent who is trying to squirrel away a bottle of Jack Daniels and not report it. It could cost you a child's college education. It is for this reason I no longer take my father fishing in Vermillion Bay, ONT.
 
BruceAir said:
On many trips into and through Canada in many different airplanes, I've never been asked to show my (now yellowed, sere) radio operator permit.

And, although I can't speak for the authorities in Canada, I have heard that they don't care, won't ask you for it, etc. They're much more concerned about whether you're carrying firearms, booze, etc.
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Same here. Several trips into Canada in two airplanes. The first had the license, the second never did.
 
Ron Levy said:
They can also perform a very destructive search of your plane, and they aren't on the hook for the damage even if they don't find anything.

It just ain't worth it.
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Some friends evidently had the wrong attitude at Douglas, AZ a couple years ago. The drug dog just HAD to check the top of the both wings after the plane was emptied of everything on the ramp on a hot afternoon. I saw the scratches. Their claim to Customs was denied.
 
Got one but never needed one. I think I noticed online that if you just apply for one, the application itself is good in lieu of the actual license for 30 days.

Better double check !
 
ejensen said:
Some friends evidently had the wrong attitude at Douglas, AZ a couple years ago. The drug dog just HAD to check the top of the both wings after the plane was emptied of everything on the ramp on a hot afternoon. I saw the scratches. Their claim to Customs was denied.
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That's when you file criminal complaints for excessive use of force, and sue them for picking on you because of your race. Regardless of what your race is.
 
Joe Williams said:
That's when you file criminal complaints for excessive use of force, and sue them for picking on you because of your race. Regardless of what your race is.
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Yeah, they could have tried other remedies but they did not want to be on Customs, DEAs list. And come to think of it, the drug dogs was DEA.

It was a group of three planes from Baja. Three middle aged white couples. I think leaving the circle with hopes of using a bathroom started it.
 
Thanks for the links! While I was thinking about it I just went online and got the license so I would have it when I fly to Canada. Took about 10 minutes (and $105).
 
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