Question on requirement to notify NTSB

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mryan75

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mryan75
Hi all,

I recently came across an accident of a US-registered aircraft in the Caribbean. It was a commercial flight which blew the right main on landing, causing the aircraft to depart the runway and subsequent nosewheel collapse. There is an accident report from the Eastern Caribbean Aviation Association, which indicated that the plane departed US territory (STT, St. Thomas in the U.S. Virgin Islands) on a commercial flight. The report indicates that the plane took off overweight and the pilot held a 3rd class medical (for an international commercial flight).

All well and good. But what I find interesting is that there is no NTSB report for this accident, which makes me wonder. I assume this was reportable to the NTSB, no? I see foreign accident reports all the time in the NTSB listings. Is it suspicious that there is no indication of this accident in the NTSB accident database? It happened a decade ago, so it's not a matter of it not having been posted yet. The plane is still used for commercial flights by the same operator and pilot.
 
I'm curious how you came across this accident from 10 years ago. Do you work for NTSB?:dunno:
 
Archer Jack said:
I'm curious how you came across this accident from 10 years ago. Do you work for NTSB?:dunno:
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I'm somewhat obsessed with Caribbean aviation. I have the webcam at TNCM (St. Maarten) on a monitor at work. I'll often look up planes that I see operating there, just to see their story. I've seen quite a few interesting ones. One woman flew a Cessna 150 from Florida to Grenada. An absolute comedy of errors trying to take off out of Princess Juliana one day; she called up tower and aborted her takeoff because she left the window open. (Um, close it and take off?). I've seen quite a few interesting "blocked" N-numbers come and go (registrations are blocked on FR24, but you can listen to live ATC).

In any event, this particular airplane came and went the other day and I looked it up. Curious about the story of the plane and the owner I looked into it a little bit and without much effort found the accident report from 2011. It's on Kathryn's report and the Aviation Safety Network, but nada on the NTSB database. Which I find odd.
 
mryan75 said:
It happened a decade ago, so it's not a matter of it not having been posted yet.
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You aren't factoring in for the effects of covid....
 
Probably not required, based on your description. If property damage was < $25k. The NTSB specifically excludes landing gear damage.

  • Not Considered Substantial Damage:
    • Engine failure or damage limited to an engine if only one engine fails or is damaged
    • Bent fairings or cowling
    • Dented skin
    • Small punctured holes in the skin or fabric
    • Ground damage to rotor or propeller blades
    • Damage to landing gear, wheels, tires, flaps, engine accessories, brakes, or wingtips
 
Salty said:
Probably not required, based on your description. If property damage was < $25k. The NTSB specifically excludes landing gear damage.

  • Not Considered Substantial Damage:
    • Engine failure or damage limited to an engine if only one engine fails or is damaged
    • Bent fairings or cowling
    • Dented skin
    • Small punctured holes in the skin or fabric
    • Ground damage to rotor or propeller blades
    • Damage to landing gear, wheels, tires, flaps, engine accessories, brakes, or wingtips
Click to expand...
Final report states:

"sustained substantial damaged to the under surface of the aircraft fuselage following the un-commanded retraction of the nose gear while landing on runway 19 at Canefield Airport, Dominica (TDCF) on a flight from St Thomas USVI (TIST) with the pilot and seven passengers on board."
 
mryan75 said:
Final report states:

"sustained substantial damaged to the under surface of the aircraft fuselage following the un-commanded retraction of the nose gear while landing on runway 19 at Canefield Airport, Dominica (TDCF) on a flight from St Thomas USVI (TIST) with the pilot and seven passengers on board."
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It probably buffed right out!:)
 
Salty said:
Probably not required, based on your description. If property damage was < $25k. The NTSB specifically excludes landing gear damage.

  • Not Considered Substantial Damage:
    • Engine failure or damage limited to an engine if only one engine fails or is damaged
Click to expand...
Interesting. If my one engine throws a rod partially thru the case or the prop hub separated and the prop wound up in Bubba’s back yard, not a big deal to the NTSB. Good to know:D

(My engine is worth less than 25K)
Cheers
 
X3 Skier said:
Interesting. If my one engine throws a rod partially thru the case or the prop hub separated and the prop wound up in Bubba’s back yard, not a big deal to the NTSB. Good to know:D

(My engine is worth less than 25K)
Cheers
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It's property damage that isn't to the aircraft. So the taxi light and runway sign you knocked down, stuff like that.
 
mryan75 said:
Final report states:

"sustained substantial damaged to the under surface of the aircraft fuselage following the un-commanded retraction of the nose gear while landing on runway 19 at Canefield Airport, Dominica (TDCF) on a flight from St Thomas USVI (TIST) with the pilot and seven passengers on board."
Click to expand...

"small punctured holes in the skin or fabric"
 
mryan75 said:
I assume this was reportable to the NTSB, no?
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. The NTSB only investigates accidents/incidents in US territories and certain international waters. Outside of those areas it falls to the state/national aviation regulatory agency to report/investigate the accident/incident regardless of aircraft registration. The reason you see some foreign accident NTSB reports is due to ICAO rules and agreements for member states who do notify the NTSB.
 
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