Q: BasicMed + Pilot Check rides

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by AggieMike88, Aug 27, 2019.

  1. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    I need some clarification on the rules on holding BasicMed as your current medical certification and check rides. I think I have the correct understanding but want input from the gallery and @Brad Z.

    The Gleim study guide for CPL starts off the details for ACS CA.I.A.K1 with "To be issued a commercial pilot certificate, there are certain requirements that must be met, including the following:"

    And then has the list of items including holding at least a current third class medical certificate.

    Diving into the FARs finds what I think is the reference that supports this, §61.23(a)(3)(iii)

    §61.23 Medical certificates: Requirement and duration.
    (a) Operations requiring a medical certificate. Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section, a person—
    (3) Must hold at least a third-class medical certificate—
    (iii) When taking a practical test in an aircraft for a recreational pilot, private pilot, commercial pilot, or airline transport pilot certificate, or for a flight instructor certificate, except when operating under the conditions and limitations set forth in §61.113(i)​
    Currently I fly on BasicMed. So I'll need to convert back to a at least a third before my check ride.

    Shouldn't be a problem, I just need to coordinate with my primary doctor to get an updated status letter for my SI's then schedule with an AME.

    I know training for a future "upgrade" to your pilot certificate can be done while you are on BasicMed. But where did I get my knowledge crossed up that you could hold a BasicMed and take a check ride?
     
  2. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Since you aren't exercising the privileges of a commercial but only exercising the privileges of the private for the check ride...61.113(i)

    (i) A private pilot may act as pilot in command of an aircraft without holding a medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter provided the pilot holds a valid U.S. driver's license, meets the requirements of §61.23(c)(3), and complies with this section and all of the following conditions and limitations:
    You act as PIC on commercial checkride

    (1) The aircraft is authorized to carry not more than 6 occupants, has a maximum takeoff weight of not more than 6,000 pounds, and is operated with no more than five passengers on board; and
    Probably aren't taking it in something that isn't this

    (2) The flight, including each portion of the flight, is not carried out—

    (i) At an altitude that is more than 18,000 feet above mean sea level;
    Most likely not the case

    (ii) Outside the United States unless authorized by the country in which the flight is conducted; or
    Usually commercial checkrides are done here for US certs.

    (iii) At an indicated airspeed exceeding 250 knots; and
    Probably not doing it in something that does this

    (3) The pilot has available in his or her logbook—

    (i) The completed medical examination checklist required under §68.7 of this chapter; and

    (ii) The certificate of course completion required under §61.23(c)(3).

    And I am assuming you have this taken care of.


    Nowhere in 61.113(i) does it say can't use basic med on a checkride.
     
  3. JScarry

    JScarry Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Last Saturday I was chatting with a person who went for the commercial checkride and the examiner wouldn’t start the checkride because the name on the 3rd Class Medical Certificate used a middle initial while the FAA records in IACRA had the full middle name. Most pilots that I know get their Basic Med and 3rd Class done at the same time and it hasn’t been long enough for the Basic Med to expire so I asked why they didn’t use the Basic Med. The examiner thought that it wouldn’t apply but they were mistaken. The names would still have to match but if they do it will save a trip to the AME or holding forever with the FAA.

    The Commercial ACS has this Practical Test Checklist. Note that it says Current Medical or Basic Med.

    Just as an exercise, I decided to read the FAR and see if I could reach the conclusion that you can use Basic Med for practical tests. Then I read the AOPA article to see why they reached that same conclusion. And we matched.

    It doesn’t say outright in the FARs that you can use Basic Med in lieu of 3rd Class for taking a practical test, but if you follow the conditionals in the text you end up with ’Yes’. FYI an examiner must have a 3rd class or better certificate. Oddly enough the same is true of a safety pilot unless the pilot and safety pilot agree that the safety pilot is PIC.

    §61.23 Medical certificates: Requirement and duration.
    (3) Must hold at least a third-class medical certificate—

    (iii) When taking a practical test in an aircraft for a recreational pilot, private pilot, commercial pilot, or airline transport pilot certificate, or for a flight instructor certificate, except when operating under the conditions and limitations set forth in §61.113(i); or

    §61.113 Private pilot privileges and limitations: Pilot in command.
    (i) A private pilot may act as pilot in command of an aircraft without holding a medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter provided the pilot holds a valid U.S. driver’s license, meets the requirements of §61.23(c)(3), and complies with this section and all of the following conditions and limitations:

    §61.23 (c) Operations requiring either a medical certificate or U.S. driver’s license. (1) A person must hold and possess either a medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter or a U.S. driver’s license when—
    (3) A person using a U.S. driver’s license to meet the requirements of paragraph (c) while operating under the conditions and limitations of §61.113(i) must meet the following requirements—

    (i) The person must—

    (A) Comply with all medical requirements or restrictions associated with his or her U.S. driver’s license;

    (B) At any point after July 14, 2006, have held a medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter;

    (C) Complete the medical education course set forth in §68.3 [BASIC MED] of this chapter during the 24-calendar months before acting as pilot in command in an operation conducted under §61.113(i) and retain a certification of course completion in accordance with §68.3(b)(1) of this chapter;

    (D) Receive a comprehensive medical examination from a State-licensed physician during the 48 months before acting as pilot in command of an operation conducted under §61.113(i) and that medical examination is conducted in accordance with the requirements in part 68 of this chapter; and

    (E) If the individual has been diagnosed with any medical condition that may impact the ability of the individual to fly, be under the care and treatment of a State-licensed physician when acting as pilot in command of an operation conducted under §61.113(i).
     
  4. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    61.113(i) is BasicMed. If you're acting as PIC under BasicMed (and you should be PIC if you're taking a commercial check ride), you don't need a medical certificate.
     
  5. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    and when filling up the 8710 do read the instructions (i skipped, who reads them?), for the Q which medical cert you hold write BASICMED and leave name of Dr and date blank.

    I went to the FSDO today after filling up the form and putting my 3rd class medical info in there which is expired ... lol. thankfully the inspector was super nice
     
  6. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    Thanks, Brad and others.....
     
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  7. jonvcaples

    jonvcaples Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Looking at all of the combinations and permutations of license and medical from the perspective of operating an aircraft v taking a check ride is kind of entertaining! Scenario-ATP with a type rating seeking adventure looks into jet warbird training. Finds a really cool program including acro and upset training. Vendor also offers type rating course for a few bucks more-woohoo! All training done in the airplane, man this sounding great, business is almost at a point the bucks are doable, and of course this would add some capabilities to the business.

    All stop! Because said ATP is using Basic Medical the checkride cannot be performed in an airplane due to air frame limits associated with Basic Med. If the ride could occur in an appropriate simulator things would be golden. If conditions change to where I can take the 3rd class physical (without putting aviation future at peril) hopefully bucks will be available. Sigh...
     
  8. jonvcaples

    jonvcaples Ejection Handle Pulled

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    To address AggieMike88's specific query, the answer is going to depend upon the aircraft to be used for the checkride. How many seats-can't have more than 6. Can it exceed 250 knots-sorry play again. Certified above 18,0000 feet-can't use it. So could a Basic Med kinda pilot take a checkride in say a PC-12, no! But there are a bunch of other aircraft which could not be used either. Consider the C-182 and its splendorous range of capabilities. The turbocharged version are certified to 20,000 feet (FL200) if memory is correct. Oh, better not take that to a checkride.

    Now once the ride is complete could you operate a turbo 182 as long as you stay below 18,000 feet. That's my understanding of things.

    Speaking of operating the turbo Skylane while holding Basic Med what type of flight plan would you have to file for FL180? Anyone who says IFR give yourself a treat because you are now in Alpha airspace where all operations must be IFR or have written authorization for VFR.
     
  9. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Sorry, John, but the regs mean what they say. Do not invent things. The maximum operating altitude of the TC 182 is indeed 20,000. However, nothing prohibits taking the checkride in a TC 182. Just because you can't fly it in all of it's legal regimes doesn't mean anything. Planes are authorized to fly IFR and most private pilot candidates (and some commercial) better not fly them in IMC.

    Note most non-pressurized/non-TC light planes do not even have a maximum operating altitude. They're only limited by how far you can get the airplane to climb (which may on a given day exceed the service ceiling).

    Note that 61.31 does require a sign off on aircraft with either a Maximum Operating Altitude or Service Ceiling (or whichever one is lower if they have both) above 25,000.
     
  10. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    Per 61.113(i), the 250kt and 18,000msl restrictions are operational restrictions, not certification restrictions. The only certification restrictions are 6 seats and 6,000 lbs MGTW. So even if your aircraft has a ceiling of 25,000 and can go faster than 250kts indicated, as long as you fly "low and slow" you can operate under BasicMed, as long as it's not certified for more than 6 seats and > 6,000lbs.
     
  11. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach

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    Thanks @Brad Z - you clarified the restriction questions I had before I asked.

    Others out there, make sure your PA32-300 wasn't certified for 7 seats before you go BasicMed.
     
  12. jonvcaples

    jonvcaples Ejection Handle Pulled

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    I do not respond to John, because that is not my name:p I got the h kicked out of me right after birth...no h never has been never will be and no it is not short for Jonathan:p

    Flyingron thanks for the comment I did flub that one.

    Speaking of the PA-32 checkout a posting on AOPA's site dealing with making the PA-32 Basic Med compliant. (https://aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2018/june/12/stc-makes-more-piper-pa32s-basicmed-compliant) The article said the STC is required to make the airplane a 6 seater even if a 7th seat was never installed (gotta love the feds, huh?). I vaguely remember a similar issue on a different airframe many years ago that was related to commercial use. Keep in mind our opinions are opinions. What matters is the FAA's interpretation and how they choose to enforce things. In the immortal words of Harry Callahan, "do you feel lucky, huh kid?" A captain and I once lost a whole flying day of trips because an FAA 121 inspector decided to come inspect our airplane in KCNM. He found what he "thought" was a discrepancy, grounded the airplane, filed a report, and continued his trip. We and the plane sat all day while a company mechanic came down from Farmington, reviewed the report, then spent the rest of the day getting the airplane returned to service. What was the problem? There was NO problem! The inspector was not familiar with the Beech 1900. What he thought was wrong was 100% in accordance with Beech and FAA documentation.

    Remember the original Q-Tip props? All the airplanes that were grounded because the prop tips were curled...exactly per the STC.

    Once again we pole vault over mouse dung and then try to fly through the base of the mountain...sigh, groan, bitch, mutter, gripe, and groan. The license you protect may be your own!
     
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  13. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    ...or more accurately, the small handful of occasions more than two decades ago, that an airworthiness inspector who didn't have instant access to a relatively obscure STC tagged the aircraft with an aircraft condition notice and was quickly rectified with a phone call, and has since been retold and retold a billion times.
     
  14. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

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    My PA32 has the Basic Med STC. My MX was pretty much like..... WTF is this crap? Never had 7 seats, never will, impossible to even do given the lack of parts to do it with.

    But he signed it off and sent it in.
     
  15. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It would kinda defeat the point of a basic Med if you couldn’t even take a checkride with it.