Purchase Cessna 172? Best CFI in Jacksonville, FL

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by J29172, Dec 17, 2017.

  1. J29172

    J29172 Pre-Flight

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    I am researching flight schools and planes. From all the reading I've done, the Cessna 172 will be what I'll train in. I am considering purchasing one. Doing so would cut down the cost of training significantly and then I will know how to fly in what I own. Has anyone done this?

    Please provide recommendations for CFI/Flight schools in the area.

    Thank you!
     
  2. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Welcome. C172 a good one, plus good resale value. The Pipers are also, PA-28s, and good resale on those too. These two are the most plentiful and popular, but there are others, like Beechcraft Sundowners and Musketeers.

    Good luck with training.
     
  3. rk911

    rk911 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    personally i think this is a bad idea. many students start but do not finish their training. if it were me i'd start training, get the PPL and then think about buying a plane. one crisis at a time. good luck.
     
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  4. Stingray Don

    Stingray Don Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    I wouldn’t count on an aircraft purchase to save money on training. Ownership can be very expensive. Trust me!
     
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  5. J29172

    J29172 Pre-Flight

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    Thank you. I have read about the PA-28. My concern was that it was faster and harder to learn than the 172. Possibly a matter of preference in the comparisons I've read? I have never flown in a Piper aircraft. I have been in both a Cessna and a Beechcraft.
     
  6. J29172

    J29172 Pre-Flight

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    Thank you. I was thinking of it as if I am spending $10k for plane rentals, it would be better to put the $10k into owning and pay the hourly rate for the CFI. The training school has spoke of a LeaseBack program. I read one article on here today, and now knowing more, don't really think that would be beneficial for me.
     
  7. J29172

    J29172 Pre-Flight

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    I've been researching the cost of ownership. I have not found any specific cost details other than insurance/hangar fees. I don't know the yearly maintenance costs or what it takes to actually fuel the trips I'd do most often.
     
  8. olasek

    olasek Pattern Altitude

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    So keep researching. Unless you are a committed pilot (at this point you aren't even a pilot) who will fly a lot your purchase may not bring you any cost-savings you dream of.
     
  9. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies Super Moderator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    It must be a matter of preference. I personally prefer Cessna but both are very equal in capabilities as well as difficulty to fly(very easy).

    I believe owning beforehand is a good idea and it will save you money as long as you buy a nice airplane upfront and not the cheapest one you find. Best of luck!
     
  10. J29172

    J29172 Pre-Flight

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    Thank you for your response. I have been reading about average costs of the 172, and have taken the approach of just like a car, the "too good to be true" price probably will come with hidden repair fees. I found a local place that does pre-inspections. I am trying to find out if there are several in the area. I am in the beginning stages but these forums have been an extreme wealth of knowledge.
     
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  11. WannFly

    WannFly Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Pa 28, are easier to fly. I started in 172, bought a pa 28 and finished in it. But DO NOT buy a plane thinking it will be cheaper, because it won't be. Buy it if u want to, I did, long before solo and I only regret not buying it earlier. In my defence, it's hard to find a good plane with everything u want, when u want.

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
     
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  12. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies Super Moderator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    I think it can be cheaper if going into it with the right mindset. In rural areas maybe not so much with very cheap plane rentals, but in metropolitan areas 172's can rent for well over 150/hr. Anyone can very easily operate a 172/Pa28 for less than that. Additionally, the training will go a lot smoother by not having to deal with scheduling conflicts that often arise from a busy flight school which saves time and will help maintain proficiency. Not having to jump from plane to plane also helps, each plane has its own personality that students have to learn and grow accustomed to.

    I dont think it's fair to make blanket statements saying it WILL be more expensive. If it's approached in the correct manner I believe it most definitely can be done not just to save money but increase convenience and pilot proficiency.
     
  13. J29172

    J29172 Pre-Flight

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    What made you choose to switch to the Piper over the Cessna? What are the things, I may want that would need to be added/upgraded? I am trying to learn as much as I can before making such an investment.
     
  14. SkyHog

    SkyHog Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Sigh. People telling you not to buy have likely never owned. Could it be more expensive? Sure.

    But the likelihood is that you’ll buy a 172 for about 30k. You’ll fly the crap out of it and then a few years later, you’ll sell it upgrade for about $30k. You’ll be out gas money and CFI fees, and maybe some minor maintenance fees.

    Either way, unless you get a lemon, youll be saving money.

    Buy.
     
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  15. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies Super Moderator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    ^ This x1000

    Also this. The ONLY cost issue I see is how much insurance might be for primary training.
     
  16. J29172

    J29172 Pre-Flight

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    In my area, the plane rental costs are $130-$175 depending on the school for the 172. Pa28 is $175 and up from what I have seen on the rate sheets. My thought process was this...getting to know my own plane brings a different level of comfort and familiarity. Much of what you have stated here. Some of the time restrictions for the schools plane won't fit into my schedule. This is another reason that I haven't picked a school yet. There are a few that do allow for training in my own plane and it cuts the training costs significantly, so about $6-10k. I am not going to rush and buy a plane without gaining further knowledge. Thank you for your input.
     
  17. SkyHog

    SkyHog Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Re: Piper vs Cessna - just my opinion here - I prefer Piper. Primarily because they feel better and more sturdy to passengers in my experience.

    Also, there’s better step up options in Piper. You can go from the Warrior to the Archer to the Arrow to the Comanche to the Twin Comanche to the Navajo, etc. in Cessna you’re looking st 150-172-182-210.

    Piper for me.
     
  18. J29172

    J29172 Pre-Flight

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    I called one of the 2 places and was told $1000/yr for a student owner with while training. One of the schools would require me to put them on the policy if they train me in my own plane. I am still researching that.
     
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  19. J29172

    J29172 Pre-Flight

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    I will look the step up options up as I'm sure I would want to upgrade after flying for awhile. I would need to start at the 172 if I go with Cessna due to the weight restrictions. This is what I was told by the flight school. So, 4 seater it will be.
     
  20. SkyHog

    SkyHog Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Another way to go is to forego the flight school and just find a local instructor instead. Could be cheaper and likely better instruction as he’s unlikely to have dozens of simultaneous students and be beholden to some dumbass school policies around stage checks or pre-check ride sign offs.
     
  21. WannFly

    WannFly Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    i bought PA 28 just based on my research, i had never been in a low wing before. this is my personal opinion (and remind you, i am not responsible for any war that is about to start over low vs high wing)...

    PA 28 is easier to land, especially in cross winds, which is always the case where i am based
    it doesnt stall, it mushes down, doesnt matter how much you want it to stall - PA-28 181 semi-tapered wing
    i wanted to learn in something that i will fly
    sitting on the wing is far better than hanging from one
    PA handles turbulence really well
    i love to see the runway while turning base to final
    just like u i didnt wanted to dump 10k on rental - its a wise choice if u stick to it

    about cost, i have numbers if you want, if u calculate just based on hrs, yah your own plane is cheaper (assuming u fly a lot, as on today, i do), however, tomorrow if i need a overhaul, its 25k rt there, if i was renting, all i need to do is walk to the FBO and say...dude good luck

    aircraft ownership is not cheap. apart from hangar and insurance, there is annual, upgrades that you will want (trust me, you will), and anything that might break without any notice whatsoever. however, there are a million things, some are tangible, some are not, aircraft ownership makes sense and renting doesnt - ONLY if you keep flying. i was committed, it worked out for me (so far), might not work out for others.
     
  22. John221us

    John221us En-Route PoA Supporter

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    I bought a P28 (Cherokee) about 10 hours into my training and didn’t regret it. It may or may not be cheaper, depending greatly on luck, pre-buy and how much you fly. Mine wasn’t cheaper, but I still didn’t regret it. I really enjoyed being able to fly whenever I wanted, without worrying about scheduling and more Importantly, knowing the condition and maintenance level of the plane, since I maintained it and was always the last one who flew it.
     
  23. WannFly

    WannFly Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    thats pretty close - i paid $900 with my flight school on the insurance as names insured same with hangar
     
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  24. SkyHog

    SkyHog Touchdown! Greaser!

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    This is one of the things I’ve never understood. Why the hell does anyone care about avionics? Gap seals? Sure. But avionics? I have more functionality in a tablet for a few hundred dollars than any panel mounted option can give for dozens of thousands of dollars.

    Just make ForeFlight or Avare your primary navigator and never look at another panel mount GPD again.
     
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  25. WannFly

    WannFly Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    some care about avionics, some dont. i agree they dont fly the plane any better, but its a personal choice, just like aircraft ownership
     
  26. dmspilot

    dmspilot Pattern Altitude

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    Can you do RNAV WAAS approaches with ForeFlight? :rolleyes:

    Sure, if you're VFR only, you shouldn't care much. But saying no one should care is ridiculous.
     
  27. SkyHog

    SkyHog Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I get that. It’s like upgrading the stereo in a car. New stereos can be super nice.

    But on a budget? Putting a pimped out alpine into a 65 Galaxie doesn’t make much sense.

    But to each their own.
     
  28. J29172

    J29172 Pre-Flight

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    Are both of these for the iPad? I flew with one pilot that had no iPad. The 2nd pilot that I flew did. It was amazing to actually be able to see what each plane was and how far it was from us with clear understanding. I could tell with no knowledge of flying that it was American Airlines or a Delta Plane.
     
  29. WannFly

    WannFly Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    exactly :). on back to low vs high wing
     
  30. SkyHog

    SkyHog Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The likelihood is that whatever plane he buys will have an old school GPS that can do RNAV approaches if needed. Doesn’t need to be fancy touch screen with color displays.

    But it is a personal choice. I tend to think spending money on avgas and oil beats having a fancy new gadget in the airplane that you’ll never recoup cost in.
     
  31. J29172

    J29172 Pre-Flight

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    What is that? I will not be getting the instrument ratings for awhile. I do understand IFR and VFR. I do not however understand RNAV WAAS approach... You just gave me another thing to research. Thanks
     
  32. WannFly

    WannFly Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    they both are EFB - electronic flight bag, and there are lot of others. just know its great for VFR, not legal for IFR - if you want to pursue that route, u want something panel mounted. also, iPad overheats and shuts down , exactly when u need it the most. i keep an iPad on my right seat, barely look at it though.
     
  33. John221us

    John221us En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Back in my college days, I put an Alpine system into a ‘68 bug (early 80’s). The stereo was worth more than the car. I had different priorities back then, I guess. I almost put an IFR panel in my ‘68 Cherokee, but sold the plane instead (I couldn’t quite justify it).
     
  34. SkyHog

    SkyHog Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Dollars to donuts, you’ll have what you need for the instrument rating, provided you have a nav head connected to a VOR and one with a glide slope.

    The panel mount stuff is fancy fancy stuff that you can use to fly other approaches that aren’t needed (per se) to get the ratings.

    A 30k 172 or Cherokee 180 will get you everything you need to get through your PPL, IR, Commercial and CFI
     
  35. John221us

    John221us En-Route PoA Supporter

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    RNAV is a precursor to GPS, though a GPS can do an RNAV approach just fine. A VOR cannot. I any case, if you will be pursuing your IFR in the future, it is cheaper to buy a plane with the right panel, now, rather than face an upgrade later. Avionics lose at least half their value the minute you install them.
     
  36. dmspilot

    dmspilot Pattern Altitude

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    Okay, so your earlier post was hyperbole. I agree with this to an extent. Just today I saw someone on the C150/152 Facebook group ask about repairing an inop attitude indicator in a 1960s C150. First response was to get a G5. :rolleyes:
     
  37. J29172

    J29172 Pre-Flight

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    I'm open to finding one. I know I just need a CFI. I wouldn't know where to find one. Would I call the airports? I see a lot of the school training is done online as well.
     
  38. J29172

    J29172 Pre-Flight

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    I see some pilots have Ipad Minis mounted. That is definitely something to think about. Although one should always have a backup plan when it comes to electronics. They all seem to have that issue...never a problem, until you need them most.
     
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  39. SkyHog

    SkyHog Touchdown! Greaser!

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    What I do - I have my iPhone and my tablet at the ready. Tablet is option 1. Idea it fails, phone becomes option 2.

    Haven’t needed option 2 yet, but it’s there If I need it
     
  40. John221us

    John221us En-Route PoA Supporter

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    FYI, my Cherokee, while a great plane to learn in, did not have an IFR certified panel. I was looking at $7K to $10K in upgrades to a $25K plane to pursue my IR. Buying a plane with an IFR capable panel now could save you thousands down the road. ADSB out is another requirement that is just around the corner and something to consider.