172/U....We are having a disagreement on the correct way to get established on V77....would the route simply be K50, V77, KFOE....or would you have to file it as K50, ICT VOR, V77, KFOE?
172/U....We are having a disagreement on the correct way to get established on V77....would the route simply be K50, V77, KFOE....or would you have to file it as K50, ICT VOR, V77, KFOE?
You can't file a Victor airway without specifying both an entry point and an exit point that are part of the airway. Thus, neither of the routings would work. Since you have only VOR's, your first point would have to be something to which you could navigate directly, such as a VOR in the direction you're planning to go, like Emporia (EMP). From there, you could file direct to a point to which you can navigate and from which the only approach you can fly (the ILS or LOC Rwy 31) could be flown, such as TOP VOR or the Riply NDB (if you have an ADF). Your route of flight block would be simply EMP FO or EMP TOP.
And you could also file the route Kent suggested, although it would be longer.
Good catch. I'm not used to the variable chart scaling with my new IPad/Foreflight system yet.:wink2:However, the EMP VOR is 66nm away from K50 - So, you're outside the service volume. That's not going to work either.
I assume this has been gone over here more than once, but is it legal to go direct-to a nav-aid outside it's service volume, if you're receiving a signal?
...and that you already be receiving the navaid "suitable for navigation." That's why the OP can't go direct EMP -- it's outside the volume, and you won't be receiving it while on the ground at K50 when getting your clearance.Yes, but the clearance to do so requires radar monitoring by ATC.
...and that you already be receiving the navaid "suitable for navigation."
Yes, but the clearance to do so requires radar monitoring by ATC.
Is that a requirement on the controller or on the pilot?
Not at K50, the heading would have to be issued to apply only within controlled airspace. See para 4-3-2.I guess the proper IFR clearance, if he wanted to fly that way, would be something like 'runway heading, radar vectors Emporia, direct'.
No, all the OP said was "you're receiving a signal." That's not the same as receiving a signal which is "suitable for navigation." One can be receiving a signal with a shaky needle or ambiguity flag, or without a valid ID, and one would be not only illegal but also unwise to follow it.That was given in the question.
700 AGL (the base of controlled airspace there) is not a magic number in that regard. You'd have to reach the minimum instrument altitude (as defined in 91.177), and since there are no published terminal procedures for K50, the "standard" departure procedure described in AIM section 5-2-8 (runway heading to 400 above the departure end of the runway, then on course, maintaining a climb gradient of at least 200 ft/nm to the minimum instrument altitude) do not provide guaranteed obstacle clearance. You're entirely on your own to determine and execute your departure so you reach the mnimum instrument altitude without hitting anything. Where there are no published instrument procedures (as it is at K50), the controller has no responsibility in that regard other than to assign you an initial altitude which is above that 91.177-defined minimum IFR altitude -- how you get there is up to you, and you alone. That's why carrying current sectionals is such a good idea even if all you fly is IFR.Oh, right. It's on the pilot to get up to 700ft AGL safely.
700 AGL (the base of controlled airspace there) is not a magic number in that regard. You'd have to reach the minimum instrument altitude (as defined in 91.177), and since there are no published terminal procedures for K50, the "standard" departure procedure described in AIM section 5-2-8 (runway heading to 400 above the departure end of the runway, then on course, maintaining a climb gradient of at least 200 ft/nm to the minimum instrument altitude) do not provide guaranteed obstacle clearance. You're entirely on your own to determine and execute your departure so you reach the mnimum instrument altitude without hitting anything. Where there are no published instrument procedures (as it is at K50), the controller has no responsibility in that regard other than to assign you an initial altitude which is above that 91.177-defined minimum IFR altitude -- how you get there is up to you, and you alone. That's why carrying current sectionals is such a good idea even if all you fly is IFR.
Right!Ah, yes, though for getting 'radar vectors direct', the relevant altitude would be the controller's MVA, wouldn't it? (Which would satisfy 91.177, of course)
Oh, right. It's on the pilot to get up to 700ft AGL safely. I note there are no departure procedures there.
One further question (apologies for the thread-jack) - how does a controller deal with that kind of an entry into controlled airspace? In principle, the aircraft can enter controlled airspace anywhere in the vicinity of the airport on any heading.
Is there a block of airspace that is cleared for the time interval specified in the clearance?
No, all the OP said was "you're receiving a signal." That's not the same as receiving a signal which is "suitable for navigation." One can be receiving a signal with a shaky needle or ambiguity flag, or without a valid ID, and one would be not only illegal but also unwise to follow it.
Ah, yes, though for getting 'radar vectors direct', the relevant altitude would be the controller's MVA, wouldn't it?
SierraKilo,
I often will try out a routing on www.fltplan.com first - it often gives good guidance including 'recently filed routes', ie:
(is it irony that they spell error incorrectly?)