Prop repair

Tom-D said:
Not really, read 21.15 &16
you are actually making an application for a TC,
21.15 Application for type certificate.
(a) An application for a type certificate is made on a form and in a manner prescribed by the FAA.

(b) An application for an aircraft type certificate must be accompanied by a three-view drawing of that aircraft and available preliminary basic data.
(c) An application for an aircraft engine type certificate must be accompanied by a description of the engine design features, the engine operating characteristics, and the proposed engine operating limitations.
21.16 Special conditions.
If the FAA finds that the airworthiness regulations of this subchapter do not contain adequate or appropriate safety standards for an aircraft, aircraft engine, or propeller because of a novel or unusual design feature of the aircraft, aircraft engine or propeller, he prescribes special conditions and amendments thereto for the product. The special conditions are issued in accordance with Part 11 of this chapter and contain such safety standards for the aircraft, aircraft engine or propeller as the FAA finds necessary to establish a level of safety equivalent to that established in the regulations.
Click to expand...

so now you are saying you are getting a TC for your frankenengine?
the rules are simple.

there is no way to put a aircraft built under a TC into experimental except for E-R&D or for showing compliance to get a STC or new TC.

type certificated aircraft must have the engine that the TC calls for and the engine must meet the specifications called out in the engine TC.
if the engine does not, then the only things you can do is put the aircraft in E-R&D or for showing compliance to get a stc or a new TC. those are very restrictive.

as bell206 has pointed out, altering and engine (even with a data plate removal) does not make you the manufacture. it makes you the modifier.

 
unsafervguy said:
even with a data plate removal) does not make you the manufacture. it makes you the modifier.
Click to expand...

Don't believe that is true.
With out a data tag try and get the FAA to tell you what engine it is. Without that data they have nothing.
 
Tom-D said:
Basically you'd apply for a type certificate for a E/AB engine as you would for the aircraft its self.
21.73
(c) An aircraft engine manufacturer who is a United States citizen and who has altered a type certificated aircraft by installing different type certificated aircraft engines manufactured by him within the United States may apply for a Class I provisional type certificate for the aircraft, and for amendments to Class I provisional type certificates held by him, if the basic aircraft, before alteration, was type certificated in the normal, utility, acrobatic, commuter, or transport category.

remember the TC of the aircraft is a E/AB.
a type certificate is still a type certificate.
Remember also FAR21has a great deal to say about changes to a type certificate, and provisional type certificates.
It's a long paper trail and you usually end up back in the type certificate, even when altered.
Click to expand...

you are taking crap. an EAB does not have a type certificate, period. please show me the type certificate number on my EAB.

21.21 Issue of type certificate: normal, utility, acrobatic, commuter, and transport category aircraft; manned free balloons; special classes of aircraft; aircraft engines; propellers.

An applicant is entitled to a type certificate for an aircraft in the normal, utility, acrobatic, commuter, or transport category, or for a manned free balloon, special class of aircraft, or an aircraft engine or propeller, if—

(a) The product qualifies under §21.27; or

(b) The applicant submits the type design, test reports, and computations necessary to show that the product to be certificated meets the applicable airworthiness, aircraft noise, fuel venting, and exhaust emission requirements of this subchapter and any special conditions prescribed by the FAA, and the FAA finds—

(1) Upon examination of the type design, and after completing all tests and inspections, that the type design and the product meet the applicable noise, fuel venting, and emissions requirements of this subchapter, and further finds that they meet the applicable airworthiness requirements of this subchapter or that any airworthiness provisions not complied with are compensated for by factors that provide an equivalent level of safety; and

(2) For an aircraft, that no feature or characteristic makes it unsafe for the category in which certification is requested.

THEN and ONLY then they issue a TC EAB DOES NOT HAVE A TC it is a special airworthness certifitcate, because it has no TC so it cannot be a standard certificate.

oh by the way you should look at ac20-27G here is a nice little bit from it

e. Converting a Type-Certificated Aircraft to an Amateur-Built Aircraft. The practice of performing alterations, repairs, and rebuilding of previously type-certificated aircraft for the purpose of obtaining an experimental amateur-built airworthiness certificate is not authorized under § 21.191(g). Such maintenance actions properly fall under 14 CFR part 43, Maintenance, Preventive Maintenance, Rebuilding, and Alteration. You will not receive credit for these actions toward fabrication or assembly. We will not accept applications for airworthiness inspections on such aircraft. (1) This policy has been in effect since 1952 under section 1.74-3 of the Civil Aeronautical Manual 1 (CAM 1), which specifically states that “structural components of other aircraft may be used [for amateur-built aircraft]; however, it is not intended that this provision be used to avoid obtaining approval of major alterations to aircraft previously certificated in another category.

bottom line is YOU ARE WRONG AND TALKING OUT OF YOUR BACKSIDE ONCE AGAIN.
 
unsafervguy said:
you are taking crap.
Click to expand...
AC 21.101-1B

Purpose.

CHAPTER 1. INTRODUCTION

This AC provides guidance for establishing the certification basis for changed aeronautical products pursuant to Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) 21.101, Designation of the applicable regulations. The guidance is intended to help applicants and delegated organizations determine if it will be necessary to apply for a new type certificate (TC) under § 21.19, Changes requiring a new type certificate. The guidance describes the process for establishing the certification basis for an amended TC, supplemental type certificate (STC), and amended STC, detailing the requirements (evaluations, classifications, and decisions) throughout the process.
 
Last edited:
Still waiting for you to provide a faa tc for your Frankenstein engine or an faa stc to modify that engine, or that type certificate for a vans rv.
 
Tom-D said:
once the Ranger (manufacturer's) data tag is removed it is no longer a TCed engine.
Click to expand...
You do realize that you do not have to remove the data tag to make an engine not conform to its TC. The engine TC is only in effect when the engine is installed in a certified aircraft. This is plainly stated in every engine TCDS to include your Ranger 440. I usually do not recommend removing any data plates.

Tom-D said:
When the Engine is designated as E/AB,
Click to expand...
Tom-D said:
type certificate for a E/AB engine
Click to expand...
Tom-D said:
remember the TC of the aircraft is a E/AB.
Click to expand...
This is 100% false. No E/AB aircraft or E/AB engine or E/AB prop or... have a TC. Zero. Nor is there a process or E/AB engine designation. And neither does an LSA which is built to a consensus standard. Present one TCDS for an E/AB product or article and we'll continue this part of the discussion.

As to all the other FAR references, they are not applicable E/AB articles and products except Part 21 for issuing AWCs and Part 91 for operating them in the NAS. There are gobs of guidance on the flow of TCd items and non-TCd items if you care to read.
 
Last edited:
Bell206 said:
You do realize that you do not have to remove the data tag to make an engine not conform to its TC. .
Click to expand...
When you remove the data tag the engine no longer has a TC.
Just like a Superior XP engine it never had a TC to start with. But it has a Data tag saying who built it, with all the info required by the FARs
You simply don't need a TC to use an engine on E/AB. But you do need a data tag for YOUR product.
 
FAR 45,
(b) Aircraft engines. A manufacturer of an aircraft engine produced under a type certificate or production certificate must mark each engine by attaching a fireproof identification plate. Such plate—
If it is not produced under a type certificate, Does it even need a Data tag?

The Ranger I built years ago we built from off the shelf Auto parts was no longer a Ranger,
It was placed on a F-24 clone, (E/AB) which had been modified enough the DAR gave it a AWC under E/AB rules.
 
Tom-D said:
Nope Lycoming has nothing to do with these http://www.superiorairparts.com/xp-series-engine/
Click to expand...
In this example, correct. The XP never started out as a Lycoming. It started from a box of parts. In your Ranger example, no. It started out as a FAA certified Ranger 440 under a TC.

Tom-D said:
You simply don't need a TC to use an engine on E/AB.
Click to expand...
That's never been a part of this discussion. Any engine can be used in an E/AB. The point was you don't need to remove the data plate to install it or remove the effectiveness of the TC; and how the Feds look at the engine.

Tom-D said:
But you do need a data tag for YOUR product.
Click to expand...
Tom-D said:
If it is not produced under a type certificate, Does it even need a Data tag?
Click to expand...
On engines installed in an E/AB, no. On the E/AB aircraft itself, yes--it's part of the process to register and receive an AWC.

FYI: Part 45 is not applicable to E/AB aircraft per 45.1.

It may be time to change your bait on this troll, it's losing its effect.;)
 
Is someone confusing Type Certificate with Airworthiness Certificate? An EAB has no TC but it does have an Airworthiness Certificate.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Is someone confusing Type Certificate with Airworthiness Certificate? An EAB has no TC but it does have an Airworthiness Certificate.
Click to expand...
Yes, and he stands corrected,
 
Bell206 said:
In this example, correct. The XP never started out as a Lycoming. It started from a box of parts. In your Ranger example, no. It started out as a FAA certified Ranger 440 under a TC.
Click to expand...
. How would the FAA or anyone else know that without a data tag.?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top