Professional Pilot Banned From Airport

Geico266 said:
If the airport took federal funds they cannot ban a licensed pilot from using the facilities for purposes of aviation, and they cannot ban a citizen from attending open meetings for a public airport. Unless they have a court order.
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The ignorance of some folks who get into elected or appointed office never ceases to amaze me. I've seen it as an attorney and as an elected official. People get elected or appointed to a public position and are totally unfamiliar with not only the duties they have been charged with but the local, state and federal regulations that govern their actions, including but not limited to personal dealing and sunshine laws. I've seen officials ask questions of a applicant or protestant that make me cringe.

To them the see it as natural to exclude someone or restrict them if they are causing problems. After all that's what you would do in your private life. But private life does not translate well to public life. My guess is this board does not have a solicitor who might have advised them otherwise what is appropriate.

I recall another post from a while back that involved an airport board in Texas New Braunfels If I recall correctly and some alleged shenanigans with a long time FBO on the field and accusations regarding the safety of their fuel tanks. Wish I knew how that turned out.
 
Yellowbird said:
Is she still banished? I thought I saw her walking around Saturday.
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Yup...still banished, Scott.....Just ignoring it for the most part.

If you saw her sitting with us at our hangar, she was with her boss/keeper, which makes her not a safety hazard. :D They had just gotten back from flying the Baron (successfully apparently).

I think the administration has realized that the stupidest thing they can do (other than what they have already done) is have her arrested and tried in a public courtroom.

Word is, staff is supposed to take pictures of her to authenticate her being on the airport. Saturday she was on the ramp at the same time as a Deputy Sheriff (the SO was actually cc:d on her banning letter so is aware).

Jim

PS- Rumor, and it is ONLY a rumor, is that the FAA has shut down the planned runway re-surfacing this summer till the issue is resolved. Guess everything has concequences.
 
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Neat little article on Mrs. Stype below, page 20-ish.

Women in Aviation


Glad to see she's sticking to her guns, and getting support from the community!
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
Neat little article on Mrs. Stype below, page 20-ish.

Women in Aviation

Glad to see she's sticking to her guns, and getting support from the community!
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Not only that but I get to sleep with the Citation Captain they talked to, every night :yes:

Jim
 
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ElPaso Pilot said:
Hmmmm. What does Mr. Pretorius think about that arrangement, Mr. Rosenow?? ;)
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I am, or at least have been referred to on occasion as, Mr. Pretorius. She kept her name when we got married cause that's how all the aviation folks knew her. :D

Jim
 
murphey said:
All I see on the link are ads for magazines.
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Works in Chrome, seems to be bunged up in Explorer -- click on the right ">" next to the "Her Side" magazine.

<edit> Hmmm... I see they used Flash to display it, unfortunately. That doesn't help things out either. :(
 
Jim Rosenow said:
Try cutting and pasting this link, Murph....

http://issuu.com/dixcom/docs/her_side__january_2013

Jim
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Article starts on pg 20, is dated 2013.

I *HATE* the crappy magazine format inside a web browser. Required to zoom to read the text, then it cuts off part of the page and you've got to mouse around to read the entire page.

Stupid.

Of course gawd forbid they lose the bottom 90% of the page with all the ads.
 
The only way to keep someone off of public property is with a court order or a restraining order. Writing a letter and signing it has no force or effect.

Please keep us posted. If she goes alone and is hassled, she should have grounds to sue for harassment or assault or something.
 
Jim, you said the board voted to send a letter to this lady to address thier concerns. What were their concerns ???. Are the concerns they speak of the reason they went into a closed session ?. If they discussed these converns in closed session they are likely in violation of state laws which usually govern closed sessions. Not sure about your state but in most states there are only certain allowed reasons to go into a closed session, such as employee discipline or contract negotiation which may divulge sensitive company information. If the closed session subject matter does not meet the rules then the issues must be discussed in an open public forum. It sure sounds like they have broken some laws. Just a thought.
 
Vaflier said:
Jim, you said the board voted to send a letter to this lady to address thier concerns. What were their concerns ???. Are the concerns they speak of the reason they went into a closed session ?. If they discussed these converns in closed session they are likely in violation of state laws which usually govern closed sessions. Not sure about your state but in most states there are only certain allowed reasons to go into a closed session, such as employee discipline or contract negotiation which may divulge sensitive company information. If the closed session subject matter does not meet the rules then the issues must be discussed in an open public forum. It sure sounds like they have broken some laws. Just a thought.
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Yes, Ohio has a pretty serious set of 'Sunshine Laws', and they've been violating them regularly for awhile now.

"Address their concerns" is euphemistic language for kick her butt off the airport. They got some 'splaynin' to do'....and I guarantee it will happen. The actual letter is attached higher in the thread, but I've tried to attach it again here.

Jim
 

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  • JoAnn's Letter.pdf
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So, I don't think the question was ever answered. What did she do to raise the ire of the airport board?
 
timwinters said:
So, I don't think the question was ever answered. What did she do to raise the ire of the airport board?
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What did she REALLY do? Ask embarassing questions and butt heads with the manager, based on my observation. She was actually on the board for a term, and IMHO that's also why she wasn't re-appointed.

What will the board SAY she did? Stand by for further bulletins, film at 11!...being asked officially now by an attorney and the FAA.

All I know for sure, is you never know for sure :dunno:

Jim
 
Jim Rosenow said:
The Wayne County, Ohio airport board has taken the unusual action of banning an active commercial pilot from the public airport. Ms. Joann Stype flies and overseas maintenance on a Baron (which is housed in a rental hangar on the field) for her employer. She was recently mailed a letter, over the signature of the board president, indicating that she is not allowed any access, at any time, to the public airport, without being accompanied by her employer. There were no reasons for the ban stated in the letter.

Ms. Stype, who is in her 80's, has been an active pilot and CFI for over 50 years, all of it associated with the local airport. She currently flies as safety pilot in the Baron for her employer, and has until this point overseen maintenance for the aircraft. The airport ban will of course preclude her maintenance duties.

Ms. Stype chose to ignore the airport prohibition and attended the airport board meeting at the County FBO last night. She sat quietly, made no comment, and no notice was officially taken by the board that she was there. Ironically, Ms. Stype sat next to a member of the airport board who is employed by the Wayne County Prosecutor's office. That agency would prosecute Ms. Stype's offense, had she been charged with Criminal Trespass for being at the meeting.

This observers opinion is that Ms. Stype asks too many questions....examples being "Why has there been no wind sock in segmented circle since last September?" and "Why are there two employees sitting in the airport office doing nothing?" The airport manager and Ms. Stype have squabbled regularly over such topics. Simply put, Ms. Stype cares deeply about the airport.

My involvement is only as a fellow pilot and observer. I have a 182RG and Citabria which are both based at the airport, and my house adjoins the airport.

I pass it along for what it's worth....

Jim
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At tonight's board meeting, the airport board, with 5 of 7 members present, voted to research the procedure to disband themselves, and to communicate the fact they were starting that process to the County commissioners. We'll see if that actually happens and how long it takes. Of course that still won't fix the issue for Ms. Stype, so the struggle will continue. More when it happens.

Jim
 
Seems like they have decided to get the heck out of dodge before the shooting starts. I would bet they are catching a lot of heat over their decision. Someone should make a formal request of the board before they disband, to rescind the letter to this lady. The airport board at our airport was disbanded several years ago and now we have a petty dictator with no checks and balances.
 
Vaflier said:
Seems like they have decided to get the heck out of dodge before the shooting starts. I would bet they are catching a lot of heat over their decision. Someone should make a formal request of the board before they disband, to rescind the letter to this lady. The airport board at our airport was disbanded several years ago and now we have a petty dictator with no checks and balances.
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Agreed...I can see good and bad both in their disbanding.

Jim
 
Jim Rosenow said:
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At tonight's board meeting, the airport board, with 5 of 7 members present, voted to research the procedure to disband themselves, and to communicate the fact they were starting that process to the County commissioners.
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Translation:

OOPS, we screwed up bigtime, lets GTFOOH before the SHTF.
 
Vaflier said:
Seems like they have decided to get the heck out of dodge before the shooting starts. I would bet they are catching a lot of heat over their decision. Someone should make a formal request of the board before they disband, to rescind the letter to this lady. The airport board at our airport was disbanded several years ago and now we have a petty dictator with no checks and balances.
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this

Mason said:
Translation:

OOPS, we screwed up bigtime, lets GTFOOH before the SHTF.
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Exactly what I was thinking.
 
Vaflier said:
Jim, you said the board voted to send a letter to this lady to address thier concerns. What were their concerns ???. Are the concerns they speak of the reason they went into a closed session ?. If they discussed these converns in closed session they are likely in violation of state laws which usually govern closed sessions. Not sure about your state but in most states there are only certain allowed reasons to go into a closed session, such as employee discipline or contract negotiation which may divulge sensitive company information. If the closed session subject matter does not meet the rules then the issues must be discussed in an open public forum. It sure sounds like they have broken some laws. Just a thought.
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I would think they can go into executive session if they needed to discuss any very sensitive matter. They could not record in the minutes or discuss with the public what was discussed during the session.

IMHO,

I see this less a violation than really bad management. If there were issues they should have met with Ms. Stype and ironed things out. Instead, they opted to hide behind an executive session and voted to discriminate against someone who seemed to have legitimate questions about their management.

Seeing as this group has exposed the county to legal action, the members don't need to seek a way to disband, the county commissioners should fire them.

Kevin
 
N53KL said:
I would think they can go into executive session if they needed to discuss any very sensitive matter. They could not record in the minutes or discuss with the public what was discussed during the session.
Kevin
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Here's an excerpt from Ohio's Sunshine Laws. Clearly states they can only go into exec. session 'to discuss pending litigation' with their appointed attorney present.

I laid this on them at the June meeting. They went into exec. session 'to discuss pending litigation' anyway, as the board member who is a very junior attorney said she thought it was ok, because they didn't HAVE an appointed attorney. :no:

Maybe I'm missing something?.....

Jim
 

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  • Exec Session Topic Definitions.pdf
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Jim Rosenow said:
Here's an excerpt from Ohio's Sunshine Laws. Clearly states they can only go into exec. session 'to discuss pending litigation' with their appointed attorney present.

I laid this on them at the June meeting. They went into exec. session 'to discuss pending litigation' anyway, as the board member who is a very junior attorney said she thought it was ok, because they didn't HAVE an appointed attorney. :no:

Maybe I'm missing something?.....

Jim
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Jim,

Thanks for the clarification and the link.

I do not mean to infer you are missing anything. I do not live in Ohio and have no knowledge of it's laws. I do Chair a lot of meetings here in my state where we have to have good reason for holding an executive session but where you don't need an attorney present.

Reading the Ohio law, it looks like the did not follow protocol. Of course, this seems to verify their incompetencies. ;)

Kevin
 
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The 'missing something' wasn't directed at you, Kevin, I was acknowledging the possibility that as an attorney, she may know something I don't about that law. Stranger things have happened.

She works for the local Prosecutor's office, and I did send her boss an email the next inquiring if he agreed with her opinion. No response from him.

Interestingly, he has gone so far as to seek, and get, an Attorney General's opinion which states that because the airport is 'regional', he does not have to represent them. I thought that was a very nice move to distance his office from the situation, and I respect him for it.

Jim
 
Been meaning to update this for awhile, and we finally have snow, so down-time.... For anyone who cares, the County airport board who banned our 80-year-old female pilot is gone. They disbanded 'voluntarily', with the assistance of our County powers-that-be, and now our 3 County Commissioners are directly in charge of the airport manager. The airport manager is on job probation... 6 months I think. Amazing change of attitude.

Joann, with a little help who will remain nameless, pursued the informal complaint against the board/County with the FAA. All the facts, statements, blah, blah, were gathered. Nothing was submitted by the board that justified their banning her (last statement is my opinion, based on reading every scrap submitted). For several months the complaint has been sitting. Last we knew they 'were researching the Administrator's previous opinions on similar complaints'. Whatever...but I'm certain this contributed to the board's demise.

Joann, thru the whole thing, has come and gone on the airport pretty much as she pleases. Gotta give her credit for stubbornness, She also passed her 3rd class medical last week, and is in the process of updating her CFI. Cool for 82, I think. She has no intention of using the CFI by the way...just that stubborn thing again I suspect. She and her 80+ employer/friend will continue to fly his Baron together.

There's hope for us old folks....I SAID, THERE'S HOPE FOR US OLD FOLKS :yesnod:

Jim
 
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Fantastic! Reminds of the Bob Hoover BS w/ the FAA.
 
steingar said:
Hope I get to meet her on my next trip up there.
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:yes: She's at the airport most days, and loves to talk to new-to-her pilots. Let me know when and I'll get her the word.

Myself, I'm 4 minutes coat on/coat off house to the FBO.

Jim
 
I tend to go up a couple times a year to buy cheese and get a pretzel at Lehman's.
 
I'm down at BJJ at least once a month. I should get out of the plane and meet you amazing folks!

Nice work. Hope it ends well for your beautiful airport.
 
Awesome. It's amazing what following thru on issues will do. Hopefully they learned a valuable lesson that people will defend themselves.
 
ChrisK said:
I'm down at BJJ at least once a month. I should get out of the plane and meet you amazing folks!

Nice work. Hope it ends well for your beautiful airport.
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Thanks! Come see us! Have you noticed the house on the hill North of the runway over-looking the airport? :yesnod:
 
Jim Rosenow said:
Thanks! Come see us! Have you noticed the house on the hill North of the runway over-looking the airport? :yesnod:
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I will look! Will probably be in Trinidad 62TB, which should be out of annual in a couple weeks.

I fly out of Skypark, so I have a bazillion training landings there. The week after I got my cert I taxied to the ramp, got out, and said hi just because I was never allowed to before :)
 
ChrisK said:
I will look! Will probably be in Trinidad 62TB, which should be out of annual in a couple weeks.

I fly out of Skypark, so I have a bazillion training landings there. The week after I got my cert I taxied to the ramp, got out, and said hi just because I was never allowed to before :)
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I've seen you, or at least the airplane, down here....nice airplane.

Jim
 
Hmmm, a new destination perhaps? What's this about cheese and pretzels at Lehman's?
 
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