Private Pilot Limitations

[midlifeflyer]

Carriage of candidates for political office is covered by 91.321, and involves respect for Federal campaign laws as well as FAA safety goals, so that's a special case.

I'm pretty sure that the discussion in that old opinion letter predates 91.321; it was strictly a 61.113 (probably 61.118 at the time) letter.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Do not put in each individual flight... Quarterly make a single line entry of X total hours and the breakdowns for day/night/landings/single/multi/glider/etc..

Can you explain how that would comply with 61.51(b)?

==============================
61.51(b) Logbook entries. For the purposes of meeting the requirements of paragraph (a) of this section, each person must enter the following information for each flight or lesson logged:
==============================

Ultimately, there are many of these activities, especially among friends and relatives, that will go un-noticed and un-cared-about, with enforcement of violations as unlikely as enforcement of speeding 1-7 mph above the limit.

These are hardly violations involving moral turpitude and, like speeding a little or for that matter any activity involving some risk), you get to make your own personal calculation of the benefit of violating the rule, the likelihood of being caught*, and the consequences if you are.

But, since ignorance of the law is not a defense anyway, might as well understand the rules before you decide it's ok to violate them.

(*although I obviously can't speak for them, I'd guess that, like my clients when I was involved in a criminal defense practice, not one of the folks who has had pilot certificates suspended or revoked for violating 61.113 thought they's ever get caught)

 

[Tom-D]

If it is legal to give anyone a ride anywhere, why does the FAA need to know?

And if they don't know, how can they take action? or enforce the rule?

This is like a blind dog chasing their tail. They don't know what they are looking for.

 

[david0tey]

All good advice. Thanks for the input. I realize this is something that is difficult for the FAA to enforce. However, being a new private pilot, I feel like I have an obligation to do everything "by the book". Probably what I will do is just take my neighbor and pay for the whole flight. That is completely legal, correct?

 

[poadeleted20]

If it is legal to give anyone a ride anywhere, why does the FAA need to know?

And if they don't know, how can they take action? or enforce the rule?

This is like a blind dog chasing their tail. They don't know what they are looking for.

There are plenty of examples in the NTSB annals of pilots busted for violating these rules, and those only include the cases where the pilot not only took the case to an ALJ and lost, but then appealed it to the NTSB. While they don't spend much (if any) effort hunting for these violations, enough of them find their way to the FAA's attention that the prudent pilot doesn't blatantly violate them.

 

[poadeleted20]

All good advice. Thanks for the input. I realize this is something that is difficult for the FAA to enforce. However, being a new private pilot, I feel like I have an obligation to do everything "by the book"

Good for you. Keep doing that, and it will become a habit -- and that's a good habit to have.

Probably what I will do is just take my neighbor and pay for the whole flight. That is completely legal, correct?

Absolutely.

 

[Henning]

Can you explain how that would comply with 61.51(b)?

==============================
61.51(b) Logbook entries. For the purposes of meeting the requirements of paragraph (a) of this section, each person must enter the following information for each flight or lesson logged:
==============================

Are you interpreting this to say there is a requirement to log beyond what flights are required to prove eligibility to serve as PIC?

 

[poadeleted20]

Are you interpreting this to say there is a requirement to log beyond what flights are required to prove eligibility to serve as PIC?

What Mark and I are saying is that if you log it as Denny suggested, you will not be able to prove that eligibility, nor will you be able to prove th e aeronautical experience required for any certificate or rating beyond what you have already.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Are you interpreting this to say there is a requirement to log beyond what flights are required to prove eligibility to serve as PIC?

Well, you also need to prove eligibility for additional certificates, ratings and some operating privileges.

But to answer your question rather than play semantic games...

Not at all. Only that if you do log the flights in order to count for something, it needs to follow 61.51.

 

[Tom-D]

All good advice. Thanks for the input. I realize this is something that is difficult for the FAA to enforce. However, being a new private pilot, I feel like I have an obligation to do everything "by the book". Probably what I will do is just take my neighbor and pay for the whole flight. That is completely legal, correct?

Yes that is the best way, and legal.

 

[Tom-D]

There are plenty of examples in the NTSB annals of pilots busted for violating these rules, and those only include the cases where the pilot not only took the case to an ALJ and lost, but then appealed it to the NTSB. While they don't spend much (if any) effort hunting for these violations, enough of them find their way to the FAA's attention that the prudent pilot doesn't blatantly violate them.

you are right, and in every one of the cases some told the FAA about it.

Silence is golden.

 

[poadeleted20]

Not at all. Only that if you do log the flights in order to count for something, it needs to follow 61.51.

...and the only required pilot function you can fulfill without at least some flights logged per 61.51 is a 91.109(c) SIC safety pilot.

Also, more importantly for this discussion, not logging an individual flight doesn't prevent the FAA from violating you for something you did on that flight.

 

[poadeleted20]

you are right, and in every one of the cases some told the FAA about it.

Silence is golden.

Not if it's your gold someone is stealing. As noted above, many of those reports come from FBO's and other 135 operators who believe they see someone stealing their business.