Primary/Supporting & Control/Performance

Jaybird180

Final Approach
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Jaybird180
I'm doing an online Instrument Ground and tonights class brought up an area that I can use some help. What resource can I use to help me to "get it"?
 
Thanks. I remember doing your slides some years ago...I think I helped "Beta" test them (smile).
 
Still waiting on your report about the yaw string behind the prop, IIRC. I recently saw a video of an RC plane with yaw strings behind the prop—they worked.
 
I sold my airplane about 6 years ago. Sorry I didn't get to do that to help you win your bet, though I don't remember the thread where it became contentious.
 
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I sold my airplane about 6 years ago. Sorry I didn't get to do that to help you win your bet, though I don't remember the thread where it became contentious.
So, you had three years to find out before you sold your plane and you didn't get it done? But you said you were "very interested", remember?
 
Thank you for finding the thread. My exact words were:

I'll let you know if/when I do the experiment and what my findings are. I'm very interested.
Now that I'm more in touch with my inner-child (LoL) I can now confess that I was averse to put yarn on the airplane and it was just going to be a thought exercise and the controversy over the real value of performing the experiment in real life didn't persuade me to really do it. My fears and uncertainties went largely unacknowledged, just a nagging thing in the back of my mind that distracted me from truly becoming an aviator. A small, albeit real part of the reason the airplane was sold. The rationalization was adding a 3rd child to the family.
 
Primary/Supporting has little use in actual flying. It's one of those inane pieces of FAA drivel you have to parrot back for the exam.

Control/Performance is the real useful thing. Get Peter Dogan's book if you want a full explaination.
 
Primary/Supporting has little use in actual flying. It's one of those inane pieces of FAA drivel you have to parrot back for the exam.

Control/Performance is the real useful thing.
IMO you have this backwards, big time. Primary/supporting is intuitive, so much so you will naturally do it—even with no training, just a bit of hands-on experience. Control/performance even reverts to primary/supporting if you lose the attitude indicator, i.e., partial panel, by definition.
 
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Primary/Supporting has little use in actual flying. It's one of those inane pieces of FAA drivel you have to parrot back for the exam.

Control/Performance is the real useful thing. Get Peter Dogan's book if you want a full explaination.

I agree primary/supporting may sound overrated, but it is intuitive and obvious, and pilots use it all the time without really thinking about it as a "technique".
 
I can now confess that I was averse to put yarn on the airplane and it was just going to be a thought exercise and the controversy over the real value of performing the experiment in real life didn't persuade me to really do it.
Ok, here's what you missed (hint: I was right, the others were wrong):
 
Primary/Supporting has little use in actual flying. It's one of those inane pieces of FAA drivel you have to parrot back for the exam.

Control/Performance is the real useful thing. Get Peter Dogan's book if you want a full explaination.
So when you look at your VSI to determine that your control inputs are giving the desired rate of climb, how do you determine that the VSI is or isn’t working?
 
IMO you have this backwards, big time. Primary/supporting is intuitive, so much so you will naturally do it—even with no training, just a bit of hands-on experience. Control/performance even reverts to primary/supporting if you lose the attitude indicator, i.e., partial panel, by definition.
I think we are in agreement.
 
So when you look at your VSI to determine that your control inputs are giving the desired rate of climb, how do you determine that the VSI is or isn’t working?
Instrument interpretation and crosscheck. Just like with everything else, that has nothing WHATSOEVER to do with the inane primary/supporting excrement.
 
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Instrument interpretation and crosscheck. Just like with everything else, that has nothing WHATSOEVER to do with the inane primary/supporting excrement.
No, it is exactly primary/supporting. Your normal scan uses supporting instruments to verify that your control/performance instruments are working properly.
 
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The FAA says primary/supporting and control/performance aren't two different instrument scans. They're two different ways to teach instrument scans. Once you learn how to scan they blend together.
 
You can argue about it all you want, for now I'm just trying to get the answer the FAA wants on the test. Until then, watch this video
 
You can argue about it all you want, for now I'm just trying to get the answer the FAA wants on the test.
If more people had the goal of actually learning the material rather than just what’s on the test, we wouldn’t have so many people who think Control/Performance and Primary/Supporting are mutually exclusive, and so we wouldn’t have these arguments.
 
Personally I prefer the stair, the technique recommended for a PFD. :)

Tim

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