President Obama's free 2 Year Community College law.

Hmmmm....free community college tuition?

anyone heard of Pell grants? Lots of minority students got em when I went to school...not me though.
 
Excellent question.

When I went to college, I partied too much, so my parents cut off my money (not that they had that much to begin with). So, I started working and supporting myself, and when I re-started college, I was (amazingly enough, now that I was on the hook for it) much more motivated.

the way the system is stacked now, not sure whether that could work.

My opinion, for whatever that's worth, most universities are not worth the money. The Ivy League, or other well respected university, sure. Especially if the university has world wide respect. Lacking admission to one of those, just get it done as cheap as possible because no one will care. Community colleges probably offer better education by virtue of them employing a lot of real world people and they're the cheapest.

I agree it took a tour in the service for me to become a highly motivated student. Nothing like laying face down in the mud for ten hours to focus your direction.
 
My opinion, for whatever that's worth, most universities are not worth the money. The Ivy League, or other well respected university, sure. Especially if the university has world wide respect. Lacking admission to one of those, just get it done as cheap as possible because no one will care. Community colleges probably offer better education by virtue of them employing a lot of real world people and they're the cheapest.

I don't think so. For example, a PhD in Economics can be earned at MIT without the ability to do arithmetic.
 
Something I've not seen mentioned here is that other countries that offer "free" collage also require you to pass exams to be qualified to go to school. Here for CC you just sign up and for many state schools you simply have to graduate from HS. Yes the top state schools do turn away a lot of students but for instance in Maryland if you go to a community collage and graduate then they have to accept you into the top state school ( collage park ).
 
I don't think so. For example, a PhD in Economics can be earned at MIT without the ability to do arithmetic.

If you go to Europe or Asia and say you have a PhD from MIT, it will mean something to them, and that could mean a job for you. If you look at resumes today EVERYBODY from India has a least a masters. My sister is a lawyer in Denmark, cost her nothing to go to law school so why not? Here it is seven years and a lot of money. When everybody touts a higher education, it becomes like a HS diploma, then it depends on the name recognition of the school. For most Texans they would sell their soul to attend UT or A&M, means absolutely nothing to the rest of the world.
 
A "C" has always been average going back a long ling time. A "B" grade is above average, and an "A" grade is exceptional. That's how its been since I was a kid (and the Earth was still cooling)

220px-GKpress.jpg


...and all the children are above average.
 
We ain't saving. No way we could catch up anyway. If a college wants your kid for whatever reason(grades, sports, diversity, whatever) all those people that diligently saved end up paying for it. Full price for the regular kid so they can afford to give free stuff to the special snowflakes. Lots of other hustles/smarter ways then following the brochure and shipping em off for sleep away high school(with better drugs.)
I am really torn watching parents in my neighborhood striving to save up a couple of hundred thousand so their kid can party till dawn for five years and end up with a liberal arts degree.

I understand the parents natural motivation to help their kids. The question is, is it really helping them?
 
I knocked out 24 credits by taking free CLEP tests, and that was 5 years after I graduated high school and not studying for them. It's so easy to keep costs of college down if people do a little bit of research.
 
And everyone else is tired of the bloated corrupt industrial education complex. Maybe I should sell out and join you all, summers off would be sweet.

No problem. Take 6 years to get a masters in a subject that your community college teaches (PhD preferred), get on the waiting list for a full time job and be prepared to earn your chops teaching part-time so that your peers will give you a recommendation for a full time job (or sit on your hiring committee). Part time, by the way, pays about 35-40% of what a full timer makes, so be prepared to eat beans for a few years.

Then get into a system that pays about 75% of what you would earn in a comparable position in industry. That pretty much takes care of the "free" 3 months of summer, doesn't it? Oh, and by the way, you are expected to spend some of that summer prepping your lesson plans with all the new stuff that has come down in your field the past year.

You think tenure guarantees you a job for life? THink again. Tenure guarantees you that the college has to follow a set procedure before they let you go. Those first four years before tenure? You can be let go for any damfool reason that the admins want.

If you go into higher ed teaching, you had DAMNED well better do it for one reason and one reason only ... to see that at least ONE student a semester lights up with that light bulb over their heads with the "I GOT IT" look that we all live to see.:lightning:

Twain said it best for me, "The only way to become immortal is to leave one person alive that you have taught what you know."

Jim
.
.
 
Nah that's dumb, I was thinking high school gym teacher. Six figure salary if you pick the right suburb and glorious June, July, and August.
 
A couple of comments.

The "free for everyone" thing is a bit of a misnomer. PELL grants already do a good job of making it "free for poor kids", so this new plan is to help ease the burden for middle class families.

Helping middle class families removes the "class warfare" and the "welfare" comments that anti-education opponents would have.

Would it be successful? Supposedly, this is being modelled after a new program that Tennesee just implemented,
During a conference call with reporters Thursday, administration officials said the proposal was based on the "fantastic results" of Tennessee Promise, which began its rollout here in 2014. Gov. Bill Haslam has received national praise for the program, which will fund community college tuition for eligible seniors who graduate from high school in Tennessee.

The interesting thing about the Tennesse plan is that it has been overwhelmingly embraced by HS students (and their families.)

The response to the statewide program has been overwhelming: 57,000 students applied for 2015 ( nearly 90% of the state's high school graduating class).

Something about a 90% rate makes me think there is some demand for a program like this.
 
Nah that's dumb, I was thinking high school gym teacher. Six figure salary if you pick the right suburb and glorious June, July, and August.

Spending nearly all the time you have on this earth sitting on your butt, not liking what you do, getting paid for it, and taking time off.

Sounds roughly equivalent to a hooker.

I'd rather sit on the corner and beg.

Jim
 
Spending nearly all the time you have on this earth sitting on your butt, not liking what you do, getting paid for it, and taking time off.

Sounds roughly equivalent to a hooker.

I'd rather sit on the corner and beg.

Jim

People actually get something in return from the service of a hooker. Gym teacher, not so much.
 
Then get into a system that pays about 75% of what you would earn in a comparable position in industry. That pretty much takes care of the "free" 3 months of summer, doesn't it? .

Ahhhh, NO. When you factor in benefits often including FREE healthcare, and other benefits including PENSIONS that private industry doesn't give anymore many teachers, and other public sector union employees make far more than their private sector counterparts. So those three months of summer only exacerabate the difference in most public sector employees, including teachers, and administrators being overpaid for what they do compared to the private sector. Most teacher are home at an hour MUCH earlier than others also. Their classes end at 2:45.
 
A couple of comments.

The "free for everyone" thing is a bit of a misnomer. PELL grants already do a good job of making it "free for poor kids", so this new plan is to help ease the burden for middle class families.

Helping middle class families removes the "class warfare" and the "welfare" comments that anti-education opponents would have.

Would it be successful? Supposedly, this is being modelled after a new program that Tennesee just implemented,


The interesting thing about the Tennesse plan is that it has been overwhelmingly embraced by HS students (and their families.)



Something about a 90% rate makes me think there is some demand for a program like this.


Stop interjecting facts... they're on a roll... :yesnod:
 
The POTUS is riding the coat tails of the Tennessee governor who announced excess lottery proceeds would be use do to fund "Tennessee Promise". The primary difference is the state will not use tax money (stupid tax, er, lottery) to fund the program whereas the federal government only has tax money to spend. That is a GRANDE difference.
 
Ahhhh, NO. When you factor in benefits often including FREE healthcare,

Free? Bad word. At no cost to the faculty member. Their dependents get charged full bore.

and other benefits including PENSIONS that private industry doesn't give anymore

Nor are the pensions/retirement free. We are prohibited from participation in Social Security, so I put in 8% of my total salary, the school matches into the retirement fund. That more than covers private industry.

many teachers, and other public sector union employees make far more than their private sector counterparts.

And you have been teaching in the system how long? This is my 40th year and probably my last. I think I know from whence I speak. You are wrong, dead wrong. Before I retired from industry I made roughly double per hour what I make teaching. I only teach to pass along what a lot of good teachers gave to me to get me on my road.

So those three months of summer only exacerabate

Yes, we still dock term papers for spelling.

the difference in most public sector employees, including teachers, and administrators being overpaid for what they do compared to the private sector.

When you put where you teach behind your name then you have the right to tell me how your district works. I can tell you exactly how mine works.

Most teacher are home at an hour MUCH earlier than others also. Their classes end at 2:45.

This semester, as last semester, as the last five years, mine ends at 9 pm.

Jim
..................
 
Last edited:
I am really torn watching parents in my neighborhood striving to save up a couple of hundred thousand so their kid can party till dawn for five years and end up with a liberal arts degree.

I understand the parents natural motivation to help their kids. The question is, is it really helping them?

I'd hope anyone with enough brains to pile up a couple hundred grand (that a lot of money BTW!) would be smart enough not to squander it on jr.'s useless BA in BS.

The ROI on "education" now days is near non existent, unless you're the bank writing the student loan.

Networking, apprenticeships, and starting your own business is where you're going to make money.

Friend of mine went to a community college for welding (not much money invested, no debt required), worked for some company for a year or so, bought a used work truck and some tools off craigslist and started his own one man business, made a few bucks bought another truck and some more tools, hired on a few guys, think he's rolling about 10 trucks now making WAAAAY more than Jr. with his $200,000 degree. :rofl:

Spending hundreds of thousands to make a mediocre wage as merely an employee is silly.


Instead of talking about the next political attention diversion, why not focus on what our President has really done for post-secondary education in America?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/14/obama-student-loans-policy-profit_n_3276428.html


Bingo
 
Last edited:
There is a very, very old saying in the community college community.


If you ask a physics major, they say, "How does that thing work?"

If you ask an engineering major, they say, "Why does that thing work?"

If you ask a business major, they say, "How much can we make that thing for?"

If you ask a liberal arts major, they say, "Do you want fries with that?"

Pick your major carefully.

Jim
 
The POTUS is riding the coat tails of the Tennessee governor who announced excess lottery proceeds would be use do to fund "Tennessee Promise". The primary difference is the state will not use tax money (stupid tax, er, lottery) to fund the program whereas the federal government only has tax money to spend. That is a GRANDE difference.

No problem here. I steal good ideas from where I can. No fault in that.

Are you suggesting a NATIONWIDE lottery to fund this program. No problem; the people playing the lottery are my C and D students from my probability and statistics classes.

Jim
 
Excellent question.



When I went to college, I partied too much, so my parents cut off my money (not that they had that much to begin with). So, I started working and supporting myself, and when I re-started college, I was (amazingly enough, now that I was on the hook for it) much more motivated.



the way the system is stacked now, not sure whether that could work.


My wife's brother and his wife made it REALLY clear to their boys that college money wasn't available. They live a modest but happy no debt life on a single schoolteacher's salary. Small house, used reliable cars, nothing fancy.

One got nearly a full ride to engineering school on academic scholarships.

The other got a full ride to engineering school on Army ROTC. Plus a living stipend. (A living stipend! That's unheard of!) He decided not to take his path toward an appointment to Annapolis further when the Army made a better offer.

The third is yet to be seen in a few years.

Granted, parents seem more willing to tell boys the facts and not kill themselves paying for school they can't afford. But when the kids are brought up right and understand the value vs debt equation and how to work hard, there's still just barely a way.

Uncle Nate is immensely proud of them. The middle one took a job working for the local utility company this last summer and he was all excited that he needed safety boots. He took a tiny bit of his cash and bought his first brand new pair of cowboy boots with steel toes. I suspect he will use them to kick some serious ass.

And I've already explained to him not to get too much of a big head with that first set of butter bars, just do the job and watch the big headed ones screw up and be chewed by the Colonels... Heh. Every butterbar thinks he's there to save the whole Army in their first tour... Haha.

Anyway... There's ways. You gotta get through to the kids that they have to get personally involved even if they don't know what they want to be or do, and work hard enough to give themselves the best possible options...

I could tell when I met Tommy that you taught that kid right. He appreciates what his pop has done for him, even if he doesn't tell you. He enjoyed listening to all your doofus pilot buddies talking airplanes, and making fools of ourselves, you could tell he knew hanging out with dad at Gastons was something special. He will probably make the same mistake we all do and forget to tell you until it's too late. Good kid. Hope he's doing well.
 
The POTUS is riding the coat tails of the Tennessee governor who announced excess lottery proceeds would be use do to fund "Tennessee Promise". The primary difference is the state will not use tax money (stupid tax, er, lottery) to fund the program whereas the federal government only has tax money to spend. That is a GRANDE difference.


Around here they run commercials saying that lottery funds pay for outdoor activities and venues. What they don't advertise so much is the ten times or more bigger lotto (not lottery, two different things) pays for prisons.
 
Around here they run commercials saying that lottery funds pay for outdoor activities and venues. What they don't advertise so much is the ten times or more bigger lotto (not lottery, two different things) pays for prisons.


Wow, that's sad.
 
No problem here. I steal good ideas from where I can. No fault in that.

Are you suggesting a NATIONWIDE lottery to fund this program. No problem; the people playing the lottery are my C and D students from my probability and statistics classes.

Jim
No, I'm not suggesting a Nationwide lottery (for the reason you state). My post was simply to offer the back story to the POTUS' proposal.
 
The ROI on "education" now days is near non existent, unless you're the bank writing the student loan.

Networking, apprenticeships, and starting your own business is where you're going to make money.

Pardon my brevity, but I believe that to be horsesh!t. The ROI on an ivy-league BA/BS education likely has a low ROI. Attend a reasonable state (or possibly low-cost private) university and the fees are reasonable (still expensive, but reasonable). You can get out of college for less than $50K in most cases, and the average salary earned by those with a degree over those with only a high school diploma is enough that it pays off that loan in less than 4 years. Everything after that is investment income. Obviously if you choose a low-earnings profession or degree (liberal arts, etc) it skews the numbers.

No doubt that business ownership is a lucrative endeavor. However, the stats that show most business start-ups fail within 3 years leads me to believe that it's not the wisest of decisions for a high-school grad. If you can't manage money, and don't have a marketable product, it's difficult in most cases to sustain a business.

Does that mean that I'd tell every high school student to attend college? Absolutely not. However, implying that post-high school education is a negative-ROI proposal for most is just flat out untrue.
 
Around here they run commercials saying that lottery funds pay for outdoor activities and venues. What they don't advertise so much is the ten times or more bigger lotto (not lottery, two different things) pays for prisons.

We get $5k a year per full time student for their education. It costs us $50k a year to keep a person in a state prison.

I suggested that we barbwire the campus and find a compliant judge to sentence each one of our students to two years of day prison with night release privileges. Imagine the system we could build with $50k a year per student. The mind fairly boggles.

Jim
 
Back
Top