Preservation of uninstalled parts.
- Thread starter Tom-D
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Cap'n Jack
Final Approach
It is essentially a new engine, for the purposes of storing it. Follow the instructions from the manufacturer, such as these?
https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/Factory Engine Preservation.pdf
https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/Factory Engine Preservation.pdf
Tom-D
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not true, engines are usually ran during test, and preservation completed during packaging.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you asking how to preserve a rebuilt engine that is 90% complete except for the required testing? Considering all the existing Lycoming/Continental preservation guidance in the OH manual and associated SBs requires an engine run of some sort, your only option would be to call the OEM for guidance or make your best guess.
Tom-D
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That is close, I am more interested in how can long can it set prior to some thing MUST done.
Doc Holliday
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I guess calling the manufacturer is a bit difficult? 
Tom-D
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I've done that. they have no guidance other than run it.I guess calling the manufacturer is a bit difficult?
Tom-D
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Tom-D
Have you read the first post? doesn't it say it it has not been run?I guess calling the manufacturer is a bit difficult?
Doc Holliday
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Has zero to do with my reply to you. You're just once again obfuscating.
The manufacturer has tech reps that can answer questions. I suggest you contact someone with engine experience on rebuilding and preservation.
Key words highlighted. I'm curious how a rebuilt engine even got released without being finished or signed off? But if there was zero preservation done on that engine I would imagine any warranty on the parts is now void. If I recall some OEMs specifically state this in the warranty docs.
DaleB
Final Approach
Insufficient data to formulate an answer.
Someone else rebuilt it and it’s been sitting for a long time, and you don’t know its current condition?
Getting rebuilt or recently rebuilt, and you need to know how long YOU can store it before installation and use?
Has it been, or will it be, periodically tended to during storage, or is it just a “wrap it, forget it, and hope for the best”?
Was it rebuilt and preserved according to the manufacturer guidance or at least industry standards? Sealed in an airtight container with Dessie’s the? Or just shoved into a corner with a sheet over it?
These things would seem to a reasonable person to make a difference in how long the engine might be expected to remain serviceable.
Someone else rebuilt it and it’s been sitting for a long time, and you don’t know its current condition?
Getting rebuilt or recently rebuilt, and you need to know how long YOU can store it before installation and use?
Has it been, or will it be, periodically tended to during storage, or is it just a “wrap it, forget it, and hope for the best”?
Was it rebuilt and preserved according to the manufacturer guidance or at least industry standards? Sealed in an airtight container with Dessie’s the? Or just shoved into a corner with a sheet over it?
These things would seem to a reasonable person to make a difference in how long the engine might be expected to remain serviceable.
Tom-D
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Any entry needs only describe what was completed. It doesn't need to say it was completed.
you only need to comply with 43.2. it was never completed, stop at (2)
you only need to comply with 43.2. it was never completed, stop at (2)
who said it got released, or was signed off.
Tom-D
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How many people have A&P rebuilt engines, and wait to replace the engine then complete the testing prior to sign it off?
there is where this engine is. IT never got completed?.
So where do we go from there?
there is where this engine is. IT never got completed?.
So where do we go from there?
Tom-D
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Tom-D
If this is stopping at 43.2(a)(2) then you are talking about an overhauled engine not a rebuilt engine. Big difference.
So is your plan to sign off the overhaul completion and install it?
Tom-D
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My plan is to preserve the engine, in some manner.If this is stopping at 43.2(a)(2) then you are talking about an overhauled engine not a rebuilt engine. Big difference.
So is your plan to sign off the overhaul completion and install it?
You should review what REBUILT means.
(b) No person may describe in any required maintenance entry or form an aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part as being rebuilt unless it has been disassembled, cleaned, inspected, repaired as necessary, reassembled, and tested to the same tolerances and limits as a new item, using either new parts or used parts that either conform to new part tolerances and limits or to approved oversized or undersized dimensions.
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Re-read the first post. Tom stated clearly that the engine was built with new parts IAW the manufacturers overhaul manual. Now it is sitting...
Tom-D
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NO that is not the plan. don't get ahead of yourself.
Tom is correct - Title 14 CFR part 43, § 43.2(a) essentially states that an overhaul consists of disassembly, cleaning, inspection, repair, reassembly, and testing.
Salty
Touchdown! Greaser!
Tell me the answer you’ll accept and I’ll post it for you.
honestly, I’m not sure why anyone responds to the troll bait anymore. Any attempt to answer the question results in abuse heaped upon the responder.
honestly, I’m not sure why anyone responds to the troll bait anymore. Any attempt to answer the question results in abuse heaped upon the responder.
I have. The problem is only a manufacturer or their agent can REBUILD an engine. So I doubt you have a half-finished REBUILT engine from the OEM or their agent. A half-finished OVERHAULED engine by an A&P all day long. The devil is in the details. Which I'm sure you already know.
Thanks. More key words. Now look at 43.2(b) and 43.3(j)(1) for the difference vs rebuilt.
Lots of third party repair stations and overhaul facilities that can rebuild to ‘like new’ tolerances.Thanks. More key words. Now look at 43.2(b) and 43.3(j)(1) for the difference vs rebuilt.
Tom-D
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So an A&P can sign off an engine as rebuilt per 43.2(b)?
Tom-D
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(b) No person may describe in any required maintenance entry or form an aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part as being rebuilt unless it has been disassembled, cleaned, inspected, repaired as necessary, reassembled, and tested to the same tolerances and limits as a new item, using either new parts or used parts that either conform to new part tolerances and limits or to approved oversized or undersized dimensions.Thanks. More key words. Now look at 43.2(b) and 43.3(j)(1) for the difference vs rebuilt.
Tom-D
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yes..
Got a reference that authorizes an A&P to rebuild? FYI: 43.2 is just a records rule not an authorization to perform work.
Tom-D
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Why don't you simply answer the question, and quit trying to answer some thing you don't know.
Tom-D
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Tom-D
The FAR is the FAR, final answer.
Now tell what should be done to answer my question.
Tom-D
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Tom-D
changing the question doesn't work.
Ha. The pot calling the kettle black are we. Already answered the question several posts back. But for the record, an A&P is not authorized to REBUILD an engine. As I pointed out above only the OEM can per 43.3(j). If you look at 43.3(b) an A&P can only perform maintenance. And looking to Part 1.1 maintenance means: inspection, overhaul, repair, preservation, and the replacement of parts, but excludes preventive maintenance. Look, no rebuild. Magic. So if you as an A&P rebuild an engine and sign it off per 43.2(a) you are now in violation of 43.3(a). Simple.
Already answered in Post 4.
Tom-D
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changing the question didn't not answer the question.
Tom-D
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j) A manufacturer may—
(1) Rebuild or alter any aircraft, aircraft engine, propeller, or appliance manufactured by him under a type or production certificate;
What does that mean? any manufacturer may
Certainly the Manufacturer may.. So can a A&P.
(1) Rebuild or alter any aircraft, aircraft engine, propeller, or appliance manufactured by him under a type or production certificate;
What does that mean? any manufacturer may
Certainly the Manufacturer may.. So can a A&P.
Key word... rebuild. Whether they, the manufacturer, wants to rebuild is their decision, i.e., may, but they are not required to do so. But don't forget the other advantage to a rebuilt engine is that it can be zero timed (91.421).
I've given you specific references where an A&P is not authorized and a manufacturer is authorized to rebuild an engine. Just as you always required specific references where is yours to your quote above?
Answered in Post 4: since you stated the OEM told you to run the engine, as all other guidance states, it's your best guess.
DaleB
Final Approach
It depends.
DaleB
Final Approach
I did read the first post. He said nothing about how, or if, the engine was prepared, preserved, or stored. What was repaired or rebuilt or overhauled is not really a factor in how long it can be stored. How it was prepped and stored makes a big difference.
FWIW: Unfortunately, from a marketing standpoint, a number of owners get caught in that "like new tolerances" line of thought simply because they don't understand how the system works. It's no different than "experimental" parts/equipment which equally has zero regulatory significance. But the choice is yours.
Tom-D
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Yer, the only one who makes sense