Preplanned ferry permit

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Dave Taylor
I need to fly my plane July 31 and Aug 1, returning home late on the 1st.
My annual is scheduled Aug 2nd (it was done in July last year).

What are the chances of the FSDO giving me a ferry permit to fly 1 day out of annual, and doing so on Friday the 31st?

A ferry permit of convenience you might say, rather than one of absolute necessity.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I need to fly my plane July 31 and Aug 1, returning home late on the 1st.
My annual is scheduled Aug 2nd (it was done in July last year).

What are the chances of the FSDO giving me a ferry permit to fly 1 day out of annual, and doing so on Friday the 31st?

A ferry permit of convenience you might say, rather than one of absolute necessity.
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If the airport that you are at when the annual expires, has maintenance facilities capable of doing annuals, they probably won't.

remember the purpose of the ferry permit is to fly where maintenance can be done.
 
You got 2 weeks ,,,, get it done.!!!!!
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I need to fly my plane July 31 and Aug 1, returning home late on the 1st.
My annual is scheduled Aug 2nd (it was done in July last year).

What are the chances of the FSDO giving me a ferry permit to fly 1 day out of annual, and doing so on Friday the 31st?

A ferry permit of convenience you might say, rather than one of absolute necessity.
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No problem, call your FSDO and explain it to them, they'll issue it.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
you actually sound serious. Comment?
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A ferry permit is no big deal, the FSDO's issue lots of them.

In a nutshell, most are issued over the phone and with a fax.

You request the permit, reason is aircraft out of annual and you need to ferry to have it inspected. They will get information from you and fax your mechanic the permit. He will sign it, and make a logbook entry.
 
I agree with Tom. You are departing on a two day trip on the day you know that your annual expires. You are asking for a denial and the ASI would not be wrong to deny.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I agree with Tom. You are departing on a two day trip on the day you know that your annual expires. You are asking for a denial and the ASI would not be wrong to deny.
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How about discussing with the ASI beforehand? :dunno:

BTW, the Inspector cannot just arbitrarily deny the request. A ferry permit, or special flight permit is just that. You are requesting to make a flight from point a to point b for maintenance. An A&P signs the permit and makes a log entry.

Fairly simple.
 
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It might be beneficial to leave out the part about flying out of the field where the annual is to be performed on the day you know it is going to expire.
 
RotorAndWing said:
A ferry permit is no big deal, the FSDO's issue lots of them.

In a nutshell, most are issued over the phone and with a fax.

You request the permit, reason is aircraft out of annual and you need to ferry to have it inspected. They will get information from you and fax your mechanic the permit. He will sign it, and make a logbook entry.
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yes it's easy to get, but the OP might want to condsider that the ferry permit will probably be no-passengers and VFR-only. It's not a way to complete a family trip.
 
Timely discussion. I was pondering this issue myself. Leaving for vacation to the Florida Keys this Friday. My annual is good through the end of July so I was planning to return home July 31st to stay legal. But what if weather or some other issue delays my departure even one day? Then I'll have to get a ferry permit. I was pondering how difficult it might be to get
 
Your logs aren't with the airplane, right? Don't get ramp checked. But even if you did, nothing about the annual expiration date is with the aircraft. You're on vacation, oops, you lost track of what day it was.
 
Under stand the very permit is to locate the aircraft where maintenance can be done. when the maintenance can be accomplished at the airport where the aircraft is located there is no reason for a ferry permit.

http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/airworthiness_certification/sp_awcert/sp_flt_permit/

And yes the ASI can deny the request for that very simple reason.

Secondly what A&P will sign a ferry permit with the aircraft away from home port? ( where they can not see the airworthiness of the aircraft)

That's the same as saying " Hey FSDO, here's my certificate because I am too stupid to know that I'm required to inspect the aircraft and see if is safe to fly".
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Your logs aren't with the airplane, right? Don't get ramp checked. But even if you did, nothing about the annual expiration date is with the aircraft. You're on vacation, oops, you lost track of what day it was.
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Yes, you can always FTFU, and fly home.
 
I think the gang on PoA could write a book entitled "1000 Ways to Fly Illegally and Get Away With It" or "How to Fool the FAA and Fly When The Regs Say No". :lol:
 
I've found in the couple of FSDOs I've dealt with you can get one ferry permit no matter how lame your excuse for why you have the airplane away from the maintenance base. However once you get it someplace where it can be maintained, they're not going to issue a second.
 
I was at my home airport on Friday, the line guys dug an old Cherokee out of the back of the hangar, it hadn't been flown in over a year. Two guys came in with a ferry permit and one if them flew it away. Two full service maintenance shops on the airport. So the FSDO issued a ferry permit for them to take it to another airport for the annual, meaning our OP shouldn't have a big problem, but solo only.
Personally, I'd probably not worry too much about it, but I'm a daredevil! :D
 
The real problem here is that the intent is to misuse the ferry permit for the purpose of accommodating the OP's insistence that he not have an annual inspection performed until the day it has expired and that he wants to now use his airplane on that day.

As Tom pointed out, who is the Mechanic that is going to sign the ferry permit? Because you don't "pre-sign" a permit for a flight that is going to happen next Tuesday on an aircraft that is going to be in operation between now (the date of signing) and next Tuesday (the date of the ferry flight)

That's not how it's done and that's not the purpose of the ferry permit.
 
You guys are making this way harder than it really is.

First of all, a ferry permit is not punitive. It's simply an authorization to move an aircraft that is out of inspection. The Inspector that issues it does not launch an investigation as to why it was requested, nor does he dig deep to find a way to deny it.

121 and 135's have an OpSpec where they are allowed to carry Ferry Permits on the plane and use them as necessary, simply fill out and sign, and notify the FAA of its use.

Simple.
 
Brad Z said:
Well, "late" for me is well after dark. I'm just bringing it up as something for the OP to consider, particularly if he was planning to bring passengers.
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I suggested in post 8 for the OP to call the FSDO and discuss it with them. I'm sure the Inspector will give him the details.
 
Pencil whip an annual, be "legal", and then do the real inspection when you get back.
 
Ferry permits can be issued to allow night and IFR. Some years ago, my instructor ferried a P-Baron across the country on a ferry permit that allowed IFR flight.
 
EdFred said:
Pencil whip an annual, be "legal", and then do the real inspection when you get back.
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That's exactly what I did with the Fairchild. 11 years later I finished the annual, and signed it off again.

Several buyers wanted to know why it wasn't annulled for that period.
 
RotorAndWing said:
You guys are making this way harder than it really is...
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Point I'm making is that it's signed by an A&P saying it's safe for the flight. How does the A&P do that sight unseen if the owner has operated it since the last time he saw it? How does he know the wingtip didn't smack a pole at the fuel pumps or it hadn't made an excursion into a ditch on the last landing?

So in that scenario why even ask an A&P to go out on the limb? May as well just fly the thing home. It's not like DHS is going to be waiting for you when you land. Of course a plan like that would best be carried out by first not opening a public discussion about your intentions on an Internet forum. :rolleyes:
 
Silvaire said:
Point I'm making is that it's signed by an A&P saying it's safe for the flight. How does the A&P do that sight unseen if the owner has operated it since the last time he saw it? How does he know the wingtip didn't smack a pole at the fuel pumps or it hadn't made an excursion into a ditch on the last landing?

So in that scenario why even ask an A&P to go out on the limb? May as well just fly the thing home. It's not like DHS is going to be waiting for you when you land. Of course a plan like that would best be carried out by first not opening a public discussion about your intentions on an Internet forum. :rolleyes:
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Why are we assuming his local A&P is the guy signing off the ferry permit? :dunno:
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Your logs aren't with the airplane, right? Don't get ramp checked. But even if you did, nothing about the annual expiration date is with the aircraft. You're on vacation, oops, you lost track of what day it was.
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...Your landing gear gets stuck and you have to belly it in. Insurance company denies your claim because you were out of annual.

This is a REALLY BAD IDEA.

Dave - Get your annual done, or don't make the flight. Pretty simple.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
...Your landing gear gets stuck and you have to belly it in. Insurance company denies your claim because you were out of annual.
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Interestingly enough I know a person that collapsed their gear on landing and the plane was discovered to be almost 30 days out of annual. When asked the owner said he thought the annual was still good.

The insurance paid the claim.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Interestingly enough I know a person that collapsed their gear on landing and the plane was discovered to be almost 30 days out of annual. When asked the owner said he thought the annual was still good.

The insurance paid the claim.
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Don't let a good "I heard from my uncle's, partner's A&P's cousin's fiancee's dad's business partner story" from someone else on the board stand in the way of facts. :D

Also: My policy (yes, I've read the whole thing) says nothing about the policy being void if I fly it out of annual, or on a ferry permit. I am however, not to put skis on it. Which, on a Comanche....:dunno:
 
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RotorAndWing said:
Why are we assuming his local A&P is the guy signing off the ferry permit? :dunno:
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I'm not, I was just saying that if that were the scenario because from the OP's perspective and given the circumstances it doesn't sound like he's expecting to pay an unknown A&P to facilitate this "pre-planned" ferry permit.

I also personally know of incidents that have occurred out of annual and there were no issues with insurance so honestly the best course of action for this guy would have been to just make the flight as planned but saying after-hand that you just forgot the annual had expired when before-hand you had instigated a two page discussion about pre-planning to do it on a public internet forum kinda throws a monkey wrench into the works..

But yea, it is sort of a big deal over nothing.
 
JHW said:
yes it's easy to get, but the OP might want to condsider that the ferry permit will probably be no-passengers and VFR-only. It's not a way to complete a family trip.
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This, yes, they'll give you the permit, you will most likely be making the flight solo.
 
Tom-D said:
If the airport that you are at when the annual expires, has maintenance facilities capable of doing annuals, they probably won't.



remember the purpose of the ferry permit is to fly where maintenance can be done.
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Not true... We discovered that a plane was signed off on 10/31 instead of 11/1 in November last year... I was able to get a ferry permit to fly it from one airport with maintenance facilities to another.

Of course, it didn't hurt that it was the shop at the other field got it for me. :no:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
...Your landing gear gets stuck and you have to belly it in. Insurance company denies your claim because you were out of annual.



This is a REALLY BAD IDEA.



Dave - Get your annual done, or don't make the flight. Pretty simple.
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Kent, I knew I should have left the smiley in. I wasn't serious!!
 
Silvaire said:
The real problem here is that the intent is to misuse the ferry permit for the purpose of accommodating the OP's insistence that he not have an annual inspection performed until the day it has expired and that he wants to now use his airplane on that day.

As Tom pointed out, who is the Mechanic that is going to sign the ferry permit? Because you don't "pre-sign" a permit for a flight that is going to happen next Tuesday on an aircraft that is going to be in operation between now (the date of signing) and next Tuesday (the date of the ferry flight)

That's not how it's done and that's not the purpose of the ferry permit.
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Absolutely. :yes:
 
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