PreBuy Flight and 61.113

brien23

brien23

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If a Private pilot cert. only takes a prebuy flight and the owner does not charge him his share, in a airplane that he is thinking of buying does 61.113 apply.
 
See my answer in the "Is this legal" thread, which was the only correct answer in the whole 125+ posts. As a reminder, the correct answer is:

Who gives a ****?
 
Why would you even worry about it. Unless all your flying is pre buys.
 
brien23 said:
If a Private pilot cert. only takes a prebuy flight and the owner does not charge him his share, in a airplane that he is thinking of buying does 61.113 apply.
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No, owner of the plane is paying the full tote and is PIC.
 
Henning said:
No, owner of the plane is paying the full tote and is PIC.
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I did not say go for a ride, I said Fly the plane as in the buyer handles the controls to get a feel for the plane.
 
Technically, it's a violation if the rated pilot flying the plane (i.e., the only one legal to log the time) doesn't pay the operating expenses of the flight, but the FAA won't care as long as nobody complains to them.
 
14 cfr 61.113 has officially jumped the shark on POA
 
People worry about the nits, when it's the gnats that is going to get them.

I know people that worry about night landing currency and forget the takeoffs need to count too, and then get bagged on an accident investigation with an expired medical.
 
Ron Levy said:
Technically, it's a violation if the rated pilot flying the plane (i.e., the only one legal to log the time) doesn't pay the operating expenses of the flight, but the FAA won't care as long as nobody complains to them.
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Technically if the buyer took off with a tank of fuel, and burned an hours worth of it, then bought the aircraft didn't he actually buy the fuel too.
 
There's actually long precedent of "demonstration for sale" flights having exemptions from these rules including charging for the ride in an Experimental Exhibition category plane.
 
brien23 said:
If a Private pilot cert. only takes a prebuy flight and the owner does not charge him his share, in a airplane that he is thinking of buying does 61.113 apply.
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Ttsvx3y.jpg
 
How many people have asked for something gas money or shared cost before they demonstrate or go for a prebuy flight, especially if the plane burns 25 plus GPH. like a light Twin.
 
brien23 said:
How many people have asked for something gas money or shared cost before they demonstrate or go for a prebuy flight, especially if the plane burns 25 plus GPH. like a light Twin.
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Sure, completely legal, but that doesn't make it illegal not to ask for fuel money.
 
Henning said:
There's actually long precedent of "demonstration for sale" flights having exemptions from these rules including charging for the ride in an Experimental Exhibition category plane.
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:sigh: Well, if you want to pick legal nits...

Exemptions have to go through the rule-making process and are specific to the situation exempted. I know of no general exemption for PPL's conducting pre-purchase evaluation flights from the requirement of 61.113 to pay the operating expenses of the flight.
 
brien23 said:
How many people have asked for something gas money or shared cost before they demonstrate or go for a prebuy flight, especially if the plane burns 25 plus GPH. like a light Twin.
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There is no FAA rule prohibiting an aircraft owner from asking a another pilot who is going to fly that plane to pay the cost of the flight. Beyond that, as Jim said...
Ttsvx3y.jpg
 
There's also nothing in the rules that says I can't rent you the plane for an hour and give you a check out.
 
Henning said:
There's also nothing in the rules that says I can't rent you the plane for an hour and give you a check out.
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That's the legal point -- the pilot accruing the loggable time has to pay for the flight.

And please, folks, let's let this thread die here. I'm really not looking for another dissection of the relevant regulations with a whole bunch of hypothetical scenarios crafted for the sole purpose of finding a hole in that general principle.
 
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Ron Levy said:
And please, folks, let's let this thread die here. I'm really not looking for another dissection of the relevant regulations with a whole bunch of hypothetical scenarios crafted for the sole purpose of finding a hole in that general principle.
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Where is it in the forum that you must conduct or moderate any thread that involves regulations? :rolleyes2:


There's a very simple principle here, if you don't like it move on.
 
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