Practicing IFR procedures in VFR?

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fukhar

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Fukhar
hi. i am building cross country time (and some hood time with a friend who acts as a safety pilot) toward my instrument rating. i haven't begun the actual training yet because i want to get the hours out of the way first.

am i allowed to for example do ils approaches with a hood on with a non-instrument rated safety pilot in VMC? can i do ils approaches solo without a hood in VMC? what about other approaches / IFR procedures? what other training can i do without an instructor and with/without a safety pilot? thanks!
 
fukhar said:
hi. i am building cross country time (and some hood time with a friend who acts as a safety pilot) toward my instrument rating. i haven't begun the actual training yet because i want to get the hours out of the way first.

am i allowed to for example do ils approaches with a hood on with a non-instrument rated safety pilot in VMC? can i do ils approaches solo without a hood in VMC? what about other approaches / IFR procedures? what other training can i do without an instructor and with/without a safety pilot? thanks!
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All of those things are perfectly legal and safe to do. Just make sure when you ask ATC for an ILS that they read the words "maintain VFR" back to you, otherwise they may be giving you an actual clearance, which you cannot accept.

Smart on the other hand is a different question...you could develop bad habits that your CFII will have to train you out of when you start training with him/her. I think a better approach is to get some training on things like approaches, then go fly off some of your 50 XC/40 Instrument with a SP...but get the proper instruction first.
 
interesting. thing is i am spending a month away from home now and am flying here, but i wont be able to finish everything here. so my only option would be to get some lessons form a CFII here, and then finish my training at home with another CFII. is that recommended?
 
Changing CFI's will probably cost you more money. But, it could be good to get the input of two different people. Your call. I go along with Jeff though that you may pick up bad habits if neither of you are rated. How do you know you are doing it right?
 
I'm probably close to the last person you should be taking advice from (I haven't even stayed in a Holiday Inn Express recently!), but I'm about to start taking instrument instruction and have been reading a number of books to prep for the practical work.

A common theme in all of the books I've read is, "Don't be so darn eager to jump into the approach work! Walk before you try to run!" The advice is consistent: First, don't try do-it-yourself instruction...you're more likely to ingrain bad habits that will require extra training to unlearn, so you're not doing yourself any favors. Second, expect your CFII to start off by getting your instrument scan established. Without a solid foundation there, everything else in your practical training will suffer.

Sounds like reasonable advice to me, but like I say, I'm not even an official student yet.
 
I def agree with whats already been said. Build a good instrument foundation before jumping into approaches. To me, that means, learning standard rate turns, unusual attitudes, compass turns, navigation...
 
I'm with others - what the heck are you practicing if you haven't started training? Could be doing nothing more than re-enforcing a bunch of bad habits that will extend, not compress your training.

It's sort of like soloing before you take your first lesson.
 
I agree 100% with what the others have said.

What you're asking about is perfectly legal...but I wouldn't recommend it. It would be much better for you to receive some type of instruction from somebody that at least knows what they're doing.

I don't think there is anything wrong with working off your XC time under the hood if you'd like to, just don't get too carried away. You will really need those 40 hours to learn the instrument flying, so don't think that you're saving yourself a ton of time and money by burning it off before you get to your training. I think I had about 10 hours of simulated instrument when I started my training and that was probably about right for me. Don't do anything that will build habits that your CFII will have to undo.

And I know this is nitpicking, but you would be practicing IFR procedures either in VMC or under VFR (or possibly "in VFR conditions"). VFR is a set of regulations. VMC is a set of weather conditions in which you can legally operate under VFR. How you said it would translate to "practicing instrument flight rules procedures in visual flight rules". As I said, I know I'm being pedantic, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
 
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FlyNE said:
I agree 100% with what the others have said.

What you're asking about is perfectly legal...but I wouldn't recommend it. It would be much better for you to receive some type of instruction from somebody that at least knows what they're doing.

I don't think there is anything wrong with working off your XC time under the hood if you'd like to, just don't get too carried away. You will really need those 40 hours to learn the instrument flying, so don't think that you're saving yourself a ton of time and money by burning it off before you get to your training. I think I had about 10 hours of simulated instrument when I started my training and that was probably about right for me. Don't do anything that will build habits that your CFII will have to undo.

And I know this is nitpicking, but you would be practicing IFR procedures either in VMC or under VFR (or possibly "in VFR conditions"). VFR is a set of regulations. VMC is a set of weather conditions in which you can legally operate under VFR. How you said it would translate to "practicing instrument flight rules procedures in visual flight rules". As I said, I know I'm being pedantic, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
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Isn't that SOP around here? (LOL)
 
Jaybird180 said:
Isn't that SOP around here? (LOL)
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Of course! But that doesn't mean that I can't throw a little sugar out there to sweeten up the vinegar. :D

The truth is that I didn't realize just how beneficial these types of conversations were to me until I sat down for my instrument oral the other day. The DPE complimented me a couple of times on my answers and my preparation. I came to realize that much of what I was saying was gleaned as much from conversations on this board as it was by my studying.

For instance, when going over the required inspections for the airplane to be legal to fly under IFR I mentioned a 100 hour if the airplane was for hire. He asked me what "for hire" meant and I told him that it wouldn't be "for hire" if I took it up myself, but would be if I was receiving instruction and that the same rules applied to the landing light as required equipment for night VFR. I quickly realized that I didn't know that when I took my private checkride and that I didn't learn that while studying for this checkride. I've just learned stuff like that over the years from reading pedantic conversations here. :D
 
midlifeflyer said:
I'm with others - what the heck are you practicing if you haven't started training? Could be doing nothing more than re-enforcing a bunch of bad habits that will extend, not compress your training.

It's sort of like soloing before you take your first lesson.
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Or like learning to fly in an airplane with a nosewheel.
 
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