possible bipolar and sport pilot?

Discussion in 'Medical Topics' started by Unregistered, Apr 18, 2013.

  1. Old Geek

    Old Geek Pattern Altitude

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    You don't need to be bipolar to do that. Asperger's helps though.
     
  2. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    I assume we're talking about a Student known to me to be diagnosed as bipolar.

    If that Student is flying something requiring a medical certificate, I'd start by finding the CFI who signed that student's certificate and ask him/her if s/he knew the Student was diagnosed bipolar. If the answer was "no", I'd expect that CFI to join me going to the FAA to report the Student for lying on his/her medical application. If the answer was anything but "no", I'd report the Student for lying on his/her medical application, and that CFI to the FAA for knowingly going along with someone lying on their medical application.

    If we're talking about a Student Sport Pilot with no medical, I'd still start by finding the CFI who signed that student's certificate and ask him/her if s/he knew the Student was diagnosed bipolar. I'd then see if that CFI knew whether or not the Student's psychiatrist was aware of and approved of this person flying airplanes alone. Without the CFI's fully informed signing of this person's flying along with this person's psychiatrist's agreement that this medical deficiency would not interfere with the safe performance of sport piloting duties, the FAA would be informed (either by me alone or by me joined by the misinformed CFI involved), and I'd expect them to explicitly disapprove any further solo by this person.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2013
  3. doug rooney

    doug rooney Filing Flight Plan

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    Thread kind of bums me out. I earned a Private License in 1976 with a Class II Medical. Gave up flying in 82. Got the itch again but since then,(1987) have been diagnosed with PTSD AND bi-polar. Don't agree with the Bipolar but I'm not the Doc. It's Combat related and I had it back then, just didn't know it. Likely the reason I had a hard time trying for Commercial/instrument....too stressful. If I were indeed bipolar, I would think the moodswings would be more like 50% one way or the other or 70%/30%, etc. I'm 99.9% depressed when it's affecting me. Takes a "trigger" to bring out what a TRUSTED Psychologist (retired) called "not bipolar but a combat mode". His theory based on years of experience at the VA. That all being said, I had high hopes of obtaining a Sport Pilot Cert but I don't know if that's possible now??? Maybe I have to see if my Doctor can have that expunged from the records???? Thoughts???
     
  4. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    What does your doctor say? Have you been told to not drive a car? Is there some reason that your doctor would say that you wouldn't be able to safely act as pilot in control of an LSA?

    You don't send any medical documentation to the FAA for the sport pilot ticket. What is in your medical records is between you and your doctor. If you and your doctor agree that you are OK, then...


    67.307 is part of subpart D - Third Class Airmen Medical Certificates - not sport pilot.

    61.53 does apply "Operations that do not require a medical certificate. For operations provided for in §61.23(b) of this part, a person shall not act as pilot in command, or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember, while that person knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner."
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2015
  5. doug rooney

    doug rooney Filing Flight Plan

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    I have a valid Driver's License since I was 16 and am 65 now. Have not had the opportunity to talk to my Doctor but I think she will be very understanding and perhaps write something for me as to her opinion of my ability to fly Sport Pilot. Have just started looking into this in the past week or so and ASSUMED I was good to go. If not "Sport Pilot", I will do an ultralight unless that is the same deal?? Do you or someone have a link to the Sport Pilot forms that I would have to fill out? Thanks
     
  6. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    If you have not since your diagnosis applied for and been rejected an FAA medical, and hold a valid drivers license, you are eligible to fly with your current certificate under Sport Pilot rules, you are set already, you just need a Flight Review to get current. If you have gone through the medical process and failed to receive one, you are still eligible to fly under Pt 103 by yourself in ultralights, and fly gliders, including motor gliders, which you can find to seat two (and could build to seat more).

    There is always a way to go flying if you want to go flying. Getting a medical will be a tough row to hoe for you at this point, and unless the VA is very cooperative, it will be an expensive one as well.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2015
  7. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Dude, you're 65, if you buy a plane, no one will ever ask you for your medical. There is no real punishment, the only real thing a medical does for you is allows you to get insurance, and allows you to get a job flying. If you don't care about those, there really is no negative to not having a medical.
     
  8. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

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    There are no forms related to your medical status to fly under the sport pilot rules.

    Some people may wish otherwise, but there is no regulation stating that you need to have your doctor put something in writing.

    Since you already have a ticket, you need to get a current flight review. you have to be able to believe that you meet the requirements of 61.53 (and similar wording under the sport pilot requirements), and you have to not have had a previous failure / revocation of an FAA medical.

    And, you don't need a medical to get insurance on an LSA.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2015
  9. doug rooney

    doug rooney Filing Flight Plan

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    GREAT news guys! Never rejected for the medical, it just lapsed mid 80's. Don't want one and just want to get the Sport License. I think FAA regs say 20 hours but not sure that much would be required as I think it will all come back to me fairly quickly. Appreciate the responses! Excited again to go up!
     
  10. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    You don't need a Sport Pilot license if you already have a higher grade certificate from prior, all you need is a Flight Review from a CFI, and that will take as long as it takes to get you up to speed and flying again, be it an hour or forty, my bet is 5-10, but modern radios take a while to get good with. There is no new test or certificate required for you to operated under the constraints set forth by the Port Pilot certificate. There are even some low cost older small planes that qualify.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2015
  11. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Go find a sport aircraft and instructor,get the BFR and go flying.
     
  12. doug rooney

    doug rooney Filing Flight Plan

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    HOLY SMOKES guys! Are you SURE about all that iHenning? That is awesome. By "low cost", about how much are we talking? I have a 200 acre farm with space for a runway but may have to build a hangar if I can't figure a way to cut a big door in the barn. Certainly a lot must have changed since 1982 as far as navigation, radios, etc. I rarely see a VOR anymore in my travels. Changed to GPS?
     
  13. AdamZ

    AdamZ Administrator Management Council Member

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    If you want to be sure you should spend a few bucks and run your situation past an aviation attorney.
     
  14. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

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    Flight review - I took about 8 hours to get mine after about a 30 year layoff. It doesn't have to be in an LSA since the CFI will be acting as PIC.

    Taylorcraft, Champs, and some homebuilt LSAs will run around $20K (and up) in reasonable condition. Expect to pay through the nose for a nice Cub. You can find single seat / two stroke aircraft in the 10-15K range.

    Paper charts are still pretty much the same. No real need for anything else unless you want to play with a GPS.

    Talk to your doctor and go for it.
     
  15. doug rooney

    doug rooney Filing Flight Plan

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    I'd be looking for a 2 place...(more fun to share the experience). 8 hours sounds awesome and glad to hear not that much has changed. At $20K or so.....ya only live once and paid nearly twice that for our last SUV! Probably look into the lawyer thing Adam. Thanks guys!
     
  16. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    There are three basic ways for you to go at the $20k budget. You can use one of the qualifying legacy aircraft, I like the Luscombe best out of those, but you have to be careful as some of them don't officially apply not that it would matter.

    Or you can go with one of the "fat ultralights" (with a bunch of money left over) which is why the whole LSA/SP rule set was adopted. Of those I like the Eiper line, he GT-500 and MX-II are quality 2 seat machines that can load in a trailer and go on vacation with you to places impractical to fly. You can also operate them on amphibs, pretty much a requirement for my next plane.

    A third option is qualifying experimental designs. I really find myself attracted to the Avid Catalina, again amphibious and trailerable. With a Rotax 914 it would suit me quite well.
     
  17. doug rooney

    doug rooney Filing Flight Plan

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    Really like that Amphibious Catalina. Lots of woods in N. Wi but also lots of lakes in the event of an emergency landing. I saw a couple used, early 90's ones super cheap but work needed. Not afraid of that as long as I know what I'm doing....which I may not. in a cursory search, couldn't find a price per kit (if they have them?) nor a new aircraft??
     
  18. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    For Sport Pilot operations, the published guidance is pretty clear. You should talk with your personal physician (one with full access to all your medical records) to decide if you have a medical deficiency that would interfere with the safe performance of sport piloting duties. If not, then medically you're good to go Sport Piloting without any further ado. See here for more guidance. Beyond that, all you need as the holder of a PP or better need is a brush-up on knowledge and skills with a CFI, and that instructor's endorsement of a completed flight review in your pilot logbook.

    As for landing on your property, take Adam's advice -- ask an attorney who knows both aviation and your local zoning and land use laws, as well as whoever's writing your aircraft and property insurance.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2015
  19. doug rooney

    doug rooney Filing Flight Plan

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    thanks Ron, I will consult my Physician about the matter and maybe see if I can get her to put something in writing. I didn't even think about the repercussions about landing in my field so will definitely check that out as well! I copied and pasted the FAA Regs from the link you provided and will send it to her. Appreciate the input!
     
  20. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Don't ask for anything in writing, you'll scare the **** out of her. "Hey doc, I was thinking about picking up flying again in little planes. You think that's ok?" A verbal 'yes' and you're good to go. Don't create problems to solve issues that don't exist.
     
  21. doug rooney

    doug rooney Filing Flight Plan

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    LOL! Makes perfect sense. I actually spoke with her recently and said I missed flying. Her reply? "Why don't you". I take that as a good sign...Explained how the FAA views Bipolar stuff and she actually thought I could pass a medical. It's quite clear it's a grounding issue for even a Class III.
     
  22. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Dude, stop right there, you have all you need for SP privileges on the medical end, go out and get a Flight Review. BTW, it is possible you can get a Class III, but you will have to sue for it, and it is a process that will be long and expensive, but you can win. I don't see the value though for you.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
  23. doug rooney

    doug rooney Filing Flight Plan

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    I hear ya IHenning...I will stop and just do it. Getting a Doctor involved (especially a Psych one) when not necessary not a good idea. I'm going to start my review soon! Thanks again all. You have been VERY helpful and I'm impressed with the collective aviation Knowledge!
    BTW: @iH: Don't want or need a class III. That would certainly bring this to their attention.
     
  24. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    I agree with Henning. As long as you can honestly say you obtained that consultation and based on that consultation there's no reason to believe you aren't safe to fly as a Sport Pilot, don't complicate it by making the doc put something in writing when the doc might see that as creating a possibility of legal liability.
     
  25. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    Yeah - stop there.
    She's clearly not knowledgeable enough about FAA medical standards to make that call, so don't go applying for a Third Class medical on that basis. If you want to give that a try, go get a consultation with an AME like Bruce Chien who knows the FAA's aeromedical standards and procedures. Otherwise, just let it go and enjoy Sport flying.
     
  26. doug rooney

    doug rooney Filing Flight Plan

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    I CAN honestly say I'm safe to fly! I value everyone's opinion here and the input. I'm going to find a plane and as the Nike ad says....Just do it! BTW: Not real clear on this. Can a Sport Pilot fly into small airports?
     
  27. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    Then shut up and fly. :D
    Sure, as long as those airports aren't in Class B/C/D airspace and don't have a control tower (see below for more on that). But keep in mind that you are still the holder of a Private Pilot certificate, and that means the limitations of 61.315(b)(7) and 61.325 regarding Class B/C/D airspace and tower-controlled airports don't apply even if you are only exercising Sport Pilot privileges. As such, you can still fly to any airport you were authorized to fly into before as a PP with a Third Class medical. I think that's the answer to the question you really want to ask.

    OTOH, someone with only a Sport Pilot certificate has significant limitations for flying into Class B/C/D airspace or tower-controlled airports unless they also have logged training and a logbook endorsement, as discussed in those two regulations. But since you do not "hold [only] a sport pilot certificate" even if you're only exercising Sport Pilot privileges, those limitations don't apply to you.

    Does that answer your question?
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
  28. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Yep, you can, not sure about Class B, but can't see why not, you hold a PP. Class A airspace is all I believe you would be excluded from.
     
  29. ralarcon

    ralarcon Pre-takeoff checklist

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    "An oncologist or cardiologist can explain cause and effect in a way that uneducated people like me can understand. Not so with psychologists, it boils down to "trust me".

    You do know the difference between a Psychiatrist and a Psychologist right ?

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
  30. doug rooney

    doug rooney Filing Flight Plan

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    Oh yes CT. LOTS of experience!
    Then shut up and fly. :D ok...lol
     
  31. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    I am sure, and I quoted the regulation with explanation above.
     
  32. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    There you go, didn't know whether there was a restriction that came in on the LSA side of it, but if properly equipped I can't see why there would be.
     
  33. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    Check the Part 91 rules on airspace (91.126, et seq.) -- nothing about aircraft certification category (i.e., Standard, Special, Experimental, etc).
     
  34. doug rooney

    doug rooney Filing Flight Plan

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    Ok, sorry if I'm redundant here. To sum up a scenario: I could fly a Cessna 152 into Ashland Wi which HAS a tower? Just can only fly during the day?
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2015
  35. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Nope. A Cessna 152 is not an LSA. Gross weight is over 1320 pounds.
     
  36. doug rooney

    doug rooney Filing Flight Plan

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    Ok, Thanks. Was starting to think I was pretty much good to go almost as a PP with my Certificate I still hold.
     
  37. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    You are, but under the sport pilot rules, you are limited to aircraft that fit the definition of an LSA.

    Light-sport aircraft means an aircraft, other than a helicopter or powered-lift that, since its original certification, has continued to meet the following:
    (1) A maximum takeoff weight of not more than—
    (i) 1,320 pounds (600 kilograms) for aircraft not intended for operation on water; or
    (ii) 1,430 pounds (650 kilograms) for an aircraft intended for operation on water.
    (2) A maximum airspeed in level flight with maximum continuous power (VH) of not more than 120 knots CAS under standard atmospheric conditions at sea level.
    (3) A maximum never-exceed speed (VNE) of not more than 120 knots CAS for a glider.
    (4) A maximum stalling speed or minimum steady flight speed without the use of lift-enhancing devices (VS1) of not more than 45 knots CAS at the aircraft's maximum certificated takeoff weight and most critical center of gravity.
    (5) A maximum seating capacity of no more than two persons, including the pilot.
    (6) A single, reciprocating engine, if powered.
    (7) A fixed or ground-adjustable propeller if a powered aircraft other than a powered glider.
    (8) A fixed or feathering propeller system if a powered glider.
    (9) A fixed-pitch, semi-rigid, teetering, two-blade rotor system, if a gyroplane.
    (10) A nonpressurized cabin, if equipped with a cabin.
    (11) Fixed landing gear, except for an aircraft intended for operation on water or a glider.
    (12) Fixed or retractable landing gear, or a hull, for an aircraft intended for operation on water.
    (13) Fixed or retractable landing gear for a glider.
     
  38. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    No, a Cessna 152 does not qualify for SP. This is where you run into the snag, finding something you can rent that qualifies.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2015
  39. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    All that said, if the Secretary of Transportation gets off his butt and approves the medical requirement changes the FAA proposed, you'll almost certainly be allowed to fly that C-152 on your PP ticket using a DL in lieu of a medical certificate a few months later. Send your letters urging action to:

    The Honorable Anthony Foxx
    Secretary of Transportation
    U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
    1200 NEW JERSEY AVENUE, SE
    WASHINGTON, DC 20590
     
  40. Mason

    Mason Pattern Altitude

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    No.

    A 152 is too heavy to qualify as a Light Sport Aircraft.

    HERE is some information on specific new LSAs.

    EAA also lists certificated aircraft that qualify as LSA.