Poll: Will ADS-B Inevitably lead to user's fees?

Will ADS-B lead to user's fees?

  • Yes, ADS-B will be used to impose user's fees.

    Votes: 38 48.7%
  • No, ADS-B will be used solely for aircraft separation.

    Votes: 40 51.3%

  • Total voters
    78

Jay Honeck

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Jay Honeck
Over on VAF, a large contingent of pilots are convinced that ADS-B was designed for, and will inevitably lead to, user's fees. Given the tracking capabilities inherent with the system, this is certainly plausible.

What do you think?
 
Is it a step towards the ability to do so? Sure. Is our illustrious government organized and efficient enough to do so in the foreseeable future? I don't believe so. It would probably take them an additional decade to work towards that if they so desired. I feel the desire isn't that great to begin with. They could have been adding user fees to the airlines for decades. They don't need ADS-B to track who's who and where with them as it is, and they're the ones with the already deep pockets.
 
Nah. They have their hands full getting old timers to buy the equipment. Have they started charging fees for Mode C xpndrs? No. How about radios? no.
 
I don't think user fee collection was a design goal, but once they have the capability...
Wonder if guns drawn cop stops of little airplanes will go up or down with adsb.
 
User fees are more likely for IFR airliners and biz jets. I don't think they need ADS-B to figure when they are flying. That's where the money is. Suppose those types have lobbyists in DC?
Some on VAF are getting ready for the black helicopters to take them away.
 
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Yes, position reporting is the camel's nose under the tent.:(
 
I just got home from a flight and realized how easy that would be to implement. Departed Half Moon Bay after dinner to do a Bay Tour...tried to contact Nor Cal for FF and Bravo clearance with my usual "Nor Cal, Cessna 12345, request"...two times with no response due to spotty radio coverage cuz of the hills. Then I hear "Skylane 12345 departing Half Moon Bay, if you read me try request again in one minute for better radio coverage"

I though to myself...how did he know that it was I that was departing KHAF?...all I said was "request" and was squawking 1200...oh yeah, I have ADS-B out now! They knoooooooooow!
 
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I don't think the controllers are able to see all your full ADS-B out data yet. Quite likely he saw you on radar, and made the logical assumption you just departed KHAF. That's been happening long long before ADS-B existed.
 
I don't think the controllers are able to see all your full ADS-B out data yet.

I know the LAX approach controllers can see my full ADS-B out info...this was SFO Bravo approach control with a TON of other traffic in the area (at least that I saw on my ADS-B traffic picture) and I can see other ADS-B out traffic tail #s so I assume those guys would be able to see it as well.
 
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I think they could implement user fees now it they dared too. Having said that, it is my understanding that having UAT adsb out allows for more anamity than the other form (ES whatever). If that is truly the case, that would be the way I would go given I won't be going above 18k.
 
If you have a Mode S transponder, they can already find out who and where you are if they wanted too.
 
If they want to tax you, they can do it when using the existing FAA database, either plane registration or when go for your medical, but it's such a small pool, it's just not worth it. Expect they would go after motor vehicles long before aircraft owners.
 
If they want to tax you, they can do it when using the existing FAA database, either plane registration or when go for your medical, but it's such a small pool, it's just not worth it. Expect they would go after motor vehicles long before aircraft owners.

I feel like they are already going after motor vehicles through the use of toll roads. Seems to be more and more common for new highway sections to he toll roads.
 
If you have any transponder, using flight following, IFR, or any flight in class A, B, or C airspace, they know who you are and where to send the bill. So really, this is a lot of hype over nothing really new. The 2020 mandate for ADS-B does not apply and is not required for flight outside those above conditions either. So for those who choose to avoid ATC services, you still don't need ADS-B, and the situation does not change. So even furthers the point that it is hype over nothing.
 
As long as we keep towards the privatization of these services, most likely yes it will.
 
ihasconsprcythery.jpg


:rolleyes:
 
User fees would discourage pilots use of the atc system. I hope that they would want to encourage use of the system.
 
I don't believe it was designed for it. If they just wanted user fees, all they would have had to do is mandate MODE S.

I believe the party line is that it allows them to slack off on ground radar costs and the airlines are pushing it to get better direct routings.
 
I don't believe it was designed for it. If they just wanted user fees, all they would have had to do is mandate MODE S.

I believe the party line is that it allows them to slack off on ground radar costs and the airlines are pushing it to get better direct routings.

That

But the govt is like a fat bratty kid, they'll always whine and cry to get more cake, unfortunately America hasn't been the best parent when it comes to setting boundaries.


If they play the fee game, I'll wager a good chunk of planes will just turn their transponders off.
 
If they want to tax you, they can do it when using the existing FAA database, either plane registration or when go for your medical, but it's such a small pool, it's just not worth it. Expect they would go after motor vehicles long before aircraft owners.

Not true


Well now I have to pay $5 to "renew" my registration, funny my old registration worked just fine, no one stopped them there, give em' an inch....
 
That

But the govt is like a fat bratty kid, they'll always whine and cry to get more cake, unfortunately America hasn't been the best parent when it comes to setting boundaries.


If they play the fee game, I'll wager a good chunk of planes will just turn their transponders off.

Just what 'Cake' does the Government get? Isn't 'the government' 'The People'? Government doesn't make money, private contractors with government contracts make money. The government is nothing but a funds collection agency for private industry and a pay check for citizens who provide other citizens service. The government is nothing more or less than what we make of it. Problem is we just make **** pies because all we know how to do is **** on each other.
 
Just what 'Cake' does the Government get? Isn't 'the government' 'The People'? Government doesn't make money, private contractors with government contracts make money. The government is nothing but a funds collection agency for private industry and a pay check for citizens who provide other citizens service. The government is nothing more or less than what we make of it. Problem is we just make **** pies because all we know how to do is **** on each other.
I don't know precisely when it happened, but I feel far more empowered as a shareholder in any corporation nowadays than I do as a voter in this government.

I believe that ADS-B -- with "surveillance" in its name, for cripe's sake -- will eventually be used to track and bill us. It's just too easy a trick to turn.
 
I don't know precisely when it happened, but I feel far more empowered as a shareholder in any corporation nowadays than I do as a voter in this government.

I believe that ADS-B -- with "surveillance" in its name, for cripe's sake -- will eventually be used to track and bill us. It's just too easy a trick to turn.

Smartphones with GPS also allow for tracking the user. It doesn't mean they are designed specifically for that purpose, or that everyone should stop carrying them.
 
I don't know precisely when it happened, but I feel far more empowered as a shareholder in any corporation nowadays than I do as a voter in this government.

I believe that ADS-B -- with "surveillance" in its name, for cripe's sake -- will eventually be used to track and bill us. It's just too easy a trick to turn.

:dunno: It's easy regardless, no worries. That has nothing to do with this hardware/software interface for airplanes. That is all about reducing cost of services. It in fact is exactly what you ask for, be left alone. Thing is, you are not alone in the sky, so others have to know where you are to avoid you. What NextGen is meant to accomplish is to put all traffic and navigation services into the hands of of flight management systems that will autonomously avoid collisions with traffic or terrain and can talk to a terminal network that will sequence and space arrivals and departures much more precisely so they can increase the traffic volume at push times with weather.

What this is meant to serve is autonomous aviation, and in order to safely share the airspace, you have to be able to be 'seen' by them. That is why you only have to meet the out requirement, the in requirement is optional. However, the FAA was pretty good about and said, "Look, for you GA guys below 18,000' here's a cheaper system and we'll throw in this data stream to you for free." If they wanted to use ADSB to generate revenue, why toss in that data stream for free when pilots already pay Sirius/XM big money for less data and no traffic? Heck, they could charge $5 a month easy and people would pay gladly because they are providing a superior service at a lower cost.
 
As others have opined, it wasn't designed for user fees, but it will be used that way. I suspect it will start at the county or state level, and anyone with a ADS-B out signal loitering for more than x seconds in the vicinity of an airport will get a bill(as in landing/utility fee), then it'll expand out to the NAS eventually.

There's just so much neat things you can do with surveillance take. Look at all the private companies following you around in your car from traffic and city cams. Gravy for marketing.
 
Just what 'Cake' does the Government get? Isn't 'the government' 'The People'? Government doesn't make money, private contractors with government contracts make money. The government is nothing but a funds collection agency for private industry and a pay check for citizens who provide other citizens service. The government is nothing more or less than what we make of it. Problem is we just make **** pies because all we know how to do is **** on each other.


Same thing all small minds crave, money, power, and control.

The registration wasn't done at the will of the people, I don't recall voting on it.

But yes, the people get the government they deserve, and when you vote MaObama over Ron Paul, you say loud, dumb, and proud that you want even bigger government who has even more power and control over you.
 
As others have opined, it wasn't designed for user fees, but it will be used that way. I suspect it will start at the county or state level, and anyone with a ADS-B out signal loitering for more than x seconds in the vicinity of an airport will get a bill(as in landing/utility fee), then it'll expand out to the NAS eventually.

There's just so much neat things you can do with surveillance take. Look at all the private companies following you around in your car from traffic and city cams. Gravy for marketing.

It will all get contracted to private industry (likely LockMart), funding will get cut, direct billing will be incurred. ADS-B is irrelevant to that though. With a full autonomous system though the only costs of the system will be the ground based repeaters and terminal systems, so the primary costs will still be born by airline consumers.
 
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I agree with others that ADS-B will eventually be used to identify us and send a bill, but is not being mandated for this purpose, nor is it required to send us a bill. User fees will come no matter what. Avoiding the installation of ADS-B in your plane just in the hope that you'll avoid user fees is dumb. So is blaming the technology for user fees.
 
Same thing all small minds crave, money, power, and control.

The registration wasn't done at the will of the people, I don't recall voting on it.

But yes, the people get the government they deserve, and when you vote MaObama over Ron Paul, you say loud, dumb, and proud that you want even bigger government who has even more power and control over you.

Yes! Everyone should be out for themselves. How do you expect those airports and roads get built without government?
I'm no Obama fan but I know Paul (s) are wack jobs.
Hope you guys have your aluminum hats on to deter the gubbmint mind control.
 
Over on VAF, a large contingent of pilots are convinced that ADS-B was designed for, and will inevitably lead to, user's fees. Given the tracking capabilities inherent with the system, this is certainly plausible.

What do you think?


YES......
 
Am I crazy in thinking that one of the main purposes of ADS-B is to allow more UAV traffic in the future? Not in the "black helicopter" sense, but in a "we need cheaper commercial surveillance options" sense..... Oh, and I naively believe that it will make us all safer.... I'll go back to the herd now.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Am I crazy in thinking that one of the main purposes of ADS-B is to allow more UAV traffic in the future? Not in the "black helicopter" sense, but in a "we need cheaper commercial surveillance options" sense..... Oh, and I naively believe that it will make us all safer.... I'll go back to the herd now.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Exactly. Pretty soon all air traffic will be UAV with self loading cargo.
 
Yes! Everyone should be out for themselves. How do you expect those airports and roads get built without government?
I'm no Obama fan but I know Paul (s) are wack jobs.
Hope you guys have your aluminum hats on to deter the gubbmint mind control.

Private construction of airports came first. The gov jumps in later slows everything g down and takes credit for the initial success. If the gov didn't build crap fenced in parking lot airports people would build better ones for themselves and their friends. As for roads that old piece of toilet paper folks always refer to had something to say about the gov building roads.:rofl:
 
Yes! Everyone should be out for themselves. How do you expect those airports and roads get built without government?
I'm no Obama fan but I know Paul (s) are wack jobs.
Hope you guys have your aluminum hats on to deter the gubbmint mind control.


Would it surprise you to know there were roads, running water, etc before income tax even existed?!!

Seems we had even more airports before the $5 fee came in to play too!

Our airport right now needs some taxiway work, not only are they fixing the part that needs fixing, there just repaving the entire thing, why, because they need to spend the money....

We have boar loads of money spend on police, not to fight crime and theft and etc, but to catch speeders (like 10-15 over) and generate more money for the PD, a few states are even lowering the BAC, not to save the children but to make more money.



Please copy and paste where I said to eliminate government, or where Ron Paul said to eliminate government or infostructure??
 
Private construction of airports came first. The gov jumps in later slows everything g down and takes credit for the initial success. If the gov didn't build crap fenced in parking lot airports people would build better ones for themselves and their friends. As for roads that old piece of toilet paper folks always refer to had something to say about the gov building roads.:rofl:


Yup

Funny how people forget that :yes:
 
Would it surprise you to know there were roads, running water, etc before income tax even existed?!!

Seems we had even more airports before the $5 fee came in to play too!

Our airport right now needs some taxiway work, not only are they fixing the part that needs fixing, there just repaving the entire thing, why, because they need to spend the money....

We have boar loads of money spend on police, not to fight crime and theft and etc, but to catch speeders (like 10-15 over) and generate more money for the PD, a few states are even lowering the BAC, not to save the children but to make more money.



Please copy and paste where I said to eliminate government, or where Ron Paul said to eliminate government or infostructure??

Yes there were tons of roads in the 1920s. They are funded by gas taxes not income tax.
Paranoid and stupid is not a good combination.
 
Do you think that the "The Government" took over all this infrastructure cost from private hands (while leaving the profits in private and municipal hands)for what reason?

Do you think that if airports were all private industry that you would be able to afford to fly?
 
I can't believe there are people here that are alluding to how great privately run infrastructure projects are and at the same time don't think there should be user fees. If private industry ran the airports and airways, we would be charged from engine start to shut down.
 
I can't believe there are people here that are alluding to how great privately run infrastructure projects are and at the same time don't think there should be user fees. If private industry ran the airports and airways, we would be charged from engine start to shut down.

We already are....... it is called a "FUEL TAX" on 100 LL and Jet A,,, Plus tax on passenger tickets for commercial flights...:wink2:
 
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