POLL: Liberal or Conservative?

Liberal or Conservative?

  • Liberal

    Votes: 17 30.9%
  • Conservative

    Votes: 38 69.1%

  • Total voters
    55

sshekels

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Feb 25, 2005
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Orono, MN
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Scott Shekels
This was inspired from another thread, and I was wondering what most people in this site consider themselves. I have limited the number of choices to two, just to force people to make a black or white choice.

I know this is unrealistic, it is a spectrum, but it makes tallying the results easier! LOL

Just to start, I consider myself a conservative, but hold liberal views on some very important issues to myself. Overall though, I am pretty conservative.

A further clarification. My assumption is pilots are a fairly conservative group as a whole.

S.
 
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You need an "in between" position. I'm going to steal a quote Doc Bruce made a while back on the AOPA board that stuck with me, "fiscally conservative, socially liberal"
 
yes, I know.

That would peg me as well, but it is more interesting to narrow the choices.

Unfortunately, life is not black and white, but my poll can be! :)
 
bstratt said:
You need an "in between" position. I'm going to steal a quote Doc Bruce made a while back on the AOPA board that stuck with me, "fiscally conservative, socially liberal"

Unfortunately Barry, I don't think there's a free lunch anywhere for the socially liberal stuff to get paid for by the fiscal conservatives. :)
 
Anthony said:
Unfortunately Barry, I don't think there's a free lunch anywhere for the socially liberal stuff to get paid for by the fiscal conservatives. :)
I agree Anthony! I feel so conflicted sometimes! :)
 
Scott,

The results will show who's at each end of the spectrum. If you want to get everyone, or at least a representative sampling of the population here, I think you need waypoints for people who are split globally, fiscally, and socially.
 
Toby - True, but I believe one, if forced, can label themselves as either a conservative or liberal. As I said, I hold many beliefs that are liberal, but I still believe I am mostly a conservative person.

I'm about as middle of the road, gray, person as you would ever meet. Live and let live.
 
Anthony said:
Unfortunately Barry, I don't think there's a free lunch anywhere for the socially liberal stuff to get paid for by the fiscal conservatives. :)

The folks I know personally that I'd put into that category I'd describe as being financially conservative (low taxes, cut waste, capitalist) but supportive of social issues that don't result in special benefits to one group vis another (for example, supporting certain things the ACLU does). In their view, there is no financial penalty (and in many cases a financial benefit) to social fairness and non-discrimination.
 
sshekels said:
Toby - True, but I believe one, if forced, can label themselves as either a conservative or liberal. As I said, I hold many beliefs that are liberal, but I still believe I am mostly a conservative person.

I'm about as middle of the road, gray, person as you would ever meet. Live and let live.

Scott, I disagree that we should force labels on people.

I'd go so far as to say that a person's views might be influenced by the situation at hand, take, for example, the "conservative" folks opposed to taxes that strongly support public financing of things like baseball or football stadiums.

In the end, what does it really matter whether this board has more liberals or conservatives?
 
Environmental issues are another area where people cross over. People living in my densely populated, overbuilt strip mall and McMansion region may be very conservative on some issues and very pro-environment at the same time. That goes for those in office, no matter which political party they're affiliated with.
 
Bill - Whoa! don't get me wrong, I am NOT forcing a label on anyone. It is just curiosity on my part!

Please realize this poll means nothing, and is just idle curiosity. It is in NO WAY ment as "flame bait." It was also not my intention that folks come out in the messages as either one way, or another. Frankly I don't care. I am just curious as to the overall numbers.

I agree with your view that views are related to the situation at hand. The poll could have had more choices, but what would they be? How many?

Please, don't anyone take offense at this. It was just a whimsical poll. I do not label people, and am about the most live-and-let-live person you might ever meet.

Scott
 
Toby said:
Environmental issues are another area where people cross over. People living in my densely populated, overbuilt strip mall and McMansion region may be very conservative on some issues and very pro-environment at the same time. That goes for those in office, no matter which political party they're affiliated with.


Good point Toby. I live in that kind of area and often see very liberal environmental and liberal causes and candidates plastered on the back of very expensive, large gas guzzling SUV's. I can't figure out if they mean do as I say, not as I do or what. Its like when I used to ask my Dad why I should do something he told me to do and he'd say. "Because I said so!" :)
 
sshekels said:
Bill - Whoa! don't get me wrong, I am NOT forcing a label on anyone. It is just curiosity on my part!

Please realize this poll means nothing, and is just idle curiosity. It is in NO WAY ment as "flame bait." It was also not my intention that folks come out in the messages as either one way, or another. Frankly I don't care. I am just curious as to the overall numbers.

I agree with your view that views are related to the situation at hand. The poll could have had more choices, but what would they be? How many?

Please, don't anyone take offense at this. It was just a whimsical poll. I do not label people, and am about the most live-and-let-live person you might ever meet.

Scott

No problem, Scott, and no offense taken. :cheerio:

bill
 
wsuffa said:
The folks I know personally that I'd put into that category I'd describe as being financially conservative (low taxes, cut waste, capitalist) but supportive of social issues that don't result in special benefits to one group vis another (for example, supporting certain things the ACLU does). In their view, there is no financial penalty (and in many cases a financial benefit) to social fairness and non-discrimination.

Bill, you are spot on here. One of the most distressing things which has happened to political discourse in recent times is the inherent presumption in reportage that being supportive of business automstically means being dismissive of individuals, which is bunk (and I attribute this, in large measure, to the ability the left-leaning media has to frame the issues through choice of story and editing tone).

Funny thing is, all my clients are small businesses, and all of the people who own them value their employees and want to do more for them than they are allowed or able to do.

Big problem, though, is the increasingly-common dependency culture, people being told that they cannot succeed without having something done for them, always (of course) by the government. From where, one asks, does the government get the resources it spends, and how much more can be extracted from those who are productive before they simply give up? Today's a good day to be asking these questions, eh?
 
Oh well, let's stir the pot a little... ;)

My view of liberal vs. conservative boils down to just two simple things.

I believe that government is way too big and I don't much care for the attempts by both parties to make it even bigger. I believe that the constitution is NOT a living document (except as amended, of course), and that the judiciary is supposed to strictly interpret the constitution, not to legislate (that job, of course, belongs to congress).

I am proud to be a conservative!

I am not terribly proud of being a republican -- it's just that they're very slightly better than the other party. :mad:

Let the flames begin :cheerio:
 
SCCutler said:
Bill, you are spot on here. One of the most distressing things which has happened to political discourse in recent times is the inherent presumption in reportage that being supportive of business automstically means being dismissive of individuals, which is bunk (and I attribute this, in large measure, to the ability the left-leaning media has to frame the issues through choice of story and editing tone).

Spike, I agree in principal with two exceptions. First is that I don't think the media is the only cause. Second, I can state with some authority that it's not just the left-leaning part of the media, but also the right-leaning part of the media that frames issues in the way you describe. Now, as for how/why I can state that, I saw how it worked from the inside. The job I left last year was a Sr. Exec position with one of the country's largest media & entertainment companies (one that many detractors accused of being wholly conservative because of who some of the program hosts were). The folks that produced the broadcasts framed issues to gain audience among the target demographics. It was all about gaining audience, and therefore revenue & profits, not because there was any attempt to be fair or present alternate views.

It shouldn't be too hard to figure out which company if you consider the information above and the city in which I live.

Funny thing is, all my clients are small businesses, and all of the people who own them value their employees and want to do more for them than they are allowed or able to do.

I think that's very true in small companies, and true to a lesser degree in bigger companies. Many big companies see employees as a cost center, and once the company gets to a certain size, it loses much of the personal touch.

An example: Jack Welch had a theory that a company should regularly identify and fire the "lowest ranking" 5 - 10 percent of the employees. Where these employees were in ill-fitting jobs, it was OK to transfer them to a better fit. Along with this "stick", he also had a carrot of providing extra compensation to the top performers. All well and fine, good theory.

I know one company (personally) where the CEO announced an edict to the staff-heads: "Jack Welch says that we can get good performance by eliminiting the non-performers. Therefore, you shall rank all employees and fire the lowest 10%". No transfers unless the employee identified the opening on his/her own. And ALL raises & bonuses were limited to 2% that year, even for the top performers. This CEO ignored the "carrot" part.

I won't argue Welch's approach - it is one theory. But to b^$#erdize it and apply it the way the other company did is NOT caring for employees. Guess who has major morale and economic problems now? ('the beatings will continue until morale improves').

Big problem, though, is the increasingly-common dependency culture, people being told that they cannot succeed without having something done for them, always (of course) by the government. From where, one asks, does the government get the resources it spends, and how much more can be extracted from those who are productive before they simply give up? Today's a good day to be asking these questions, eh?

Dependency is more than the government. It includes benefits doled out by companies. It includes frivalous lawsuits. It includes the little signs that say "for your protection we will check your ID". Along the way both political parties realized that they can draw power by creating dependency.

That is, of course, just my opinion.

:cool:
 
I have no idea what I am.

I am a big fan of social programs such as a free medical program (like canada and scandanavia) I think people have the liberties to live how they see fit. But at the same time, I like censoring (viloence etc.). Maybe it is just me but I think the reason we are having so many shootings is because they advertise for it in the papers. Everytime someone shoots someone its front page news. I don't want to hear about it when someone goes postal.


So what am I?

Maximus
 
wsuffa said:
The folks I know personally that I'd put into that category I'd describe as being financially conservative (low taxes, cut waste, capitalist) but supportive of social issues that don't result in special benefits to one group vis another (for example, supporting certain things the ACLU does). In their view, there is no financial penalty (and in many cases a financial benefit) to social fairness and non-discrimination.

I agree with your assessment completely. I did not vote in the poll because the choices are just too narrow and I refuse to be labeled in such a way. :eek:

Jean
 
maximus said:
I have no idea what I am.

I am a big fan of social programs such as a free medical program (like canada and scandanavia) I think people have the liberties to live how they see fit. But at the same time, I like censoring (viloence etc.). Maybe it is just me but I think the reason we are having so many shootings is because they advertise for it in the papers. Everytime someone shoots someone its front page news. I don't want to hear about it when someone goes postal.

So what am I?

Maximus

Since I don't care for social programs or censorship, you must be the "anti-Chip". (I was going to say it made me the anti-Maximus, but that would be "Minimus" and I don't think that's a handle I want to be stuck with.) If we ever meet we will either implode or made a complete person. :D

Chip
 
gibbons said:
Since I don't care for social programs or censorship, you must be the "anti-Chip". (I was going to say it made me the anti-Maximus, but that would be "Minimus" and I don't think that's a handle I want to be stuck with.) If we ever meet we will either implode or made a complete person. :D

Chip
Apparently you've drunk more... :p
 
maximus said:
I have no idea what I am.

I am a big fan of social programs such as a free medical program (like canada and scandanavia) I think people have the liberties to live how they see fit. But at the same time, I like censoring (viloence etc.). Maybe it is just me but I think the reason we are having so many shootings is because they advertise for it in the papers. Everytime someone shoots someone its front page news. I don't want to hear about it when someone goes postal.


So what am I?

Maximus

You'd probably be a bit liberal, but that's just based upon what you've stated here.

Personally, I'm all for social programs (including social security and universal healthcare), against religion in gov't, for gun control, against death penalty, pro-choice, pro gay marriage, pro equal opportunity (meaning equal opportunity for all, not point systems or quotas or anything else. Two people take an entrance exam to a college and one gets higher than the other, the higher one gets the spot.), and finally, I'm very much for the public school system and think the way to fix our schools is to stop lowering the bar and start raising it. Furthermore, we need to give free education all the way to four years of college. High school diplomas don't cut it anymore.

I want government to be transparent. I want to see where my money is going and why. I want a say in things. I don't want to elect someone to office who is going to turn around, do a buncha things, and then tell me that everything is great when the economy is taking a nosedive. I don't think cutting taxes and raising spending is going to help anything. I could go on and on, but you can probably get the jist of my beliefs.

But regardless of political views, we're all bound by our love of aviation. That's what matters, right? :)
 
I'm a tree-hugging bleeding-heart blue-stater from Berkeley.

--Kath
 
BTW, in the interest of defining terms, when I say "socially liberal," it has nothing to do with government programs or redistributing wealth. To me it means individual acceptance of all people and the choices they make over their bodies and life partners. It has to do with inclusion, a joyful welcoming of differences. I'm not sure what anyone else's definition is.
 
maximus said:
Aww now I am on the Anti chip list. I knew I should have stayed out of this discussion.

minimus
I wouldn't worry about it. Chip forgets about things immediately after he does them and thinks he did things he really didn't do. It's fun to use that later, btw. ;)
 
Brian Austin said:
I wouldn't worry about it. Chip forgets about things immediately after he does them and thinks he did things he really didn't do. It's fun to use that later, btw. ;)

Huh? How did I get included in this thread?

Chip
 
What are you talking about, Chip! It was your idea!!

/me exercises his right not to vote in the poll, and doesn't.
 
Greebo said:
What are you talking about, Chip! It was your idea!!

/me exercises his right not to vote in the poll, and doesn't.

Oh yea, I remember now. Was it a GOOD idea? :D

Chip
 
Wait, if it wasn't, that means it wasn't yours right?

It was Brian's?
 
Greebo said:
Wait, if it wasn't, that means it wasn't yours right?

It was Brian's?

Yea well, this is where my whole "take credit" way of life gets a bit tricky. If it's a bad idea I have to find someone to pawn the idea off on, and it needs to be someone who's not paying much attention. So that's not Brian. I'll need to go through the members list and find someone who hasn't logged on is a while. I'll get back to you on this one.

Chip
 
kath said:
I'm a tree-hugging bleeding-heart blue-stater from Berkeley.

--Kath

No! Really? :)

I'm whatever that:

A. Believes in democracy as we practice in a representative republic.

B. Adheres to the principals in which this country was founded including God. capitalism and the right to defend oneself and private property.

C. Believes in the Constitution as written.

D. Believes in respecting opposing viewpoints and people's right to have them.

And that's it! OK. Put me in the conservative column.
 
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None of the above

The lack of a third choice is a problem. Polls show most American consider them-self independent and moderate on most issues. The political parties have decided that their collective futures lie in the extremes of both parties, what talking heads call the base. And those talking heads, desperate to fill airtime, perpetuate the myth that we are a deeply divided country. I don't buy it. I would love to see a poll with "independent" or "moderate" as an option, or at least none-of-the-above.

What am I....

But chalk me up as a liberal on some issues, moderate on other. Old school Vatican two catholic (that used to be the new catholic before JPII). Believe in the social safety net but stingy on ALL government spending. I believe in Science over faith but acknowledge faith is essential to civilized existence. Love the Simpsons but hate reality TV. Sick of Howard Stern and Rush Limbaugh. Most importantly I believe in the two part system and the need for a loyal opposition to keep the other party honest. :yes:
 
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corjulo said:
None of the above

The lack of a third choice is a problem. Polls show most American consider them-self independent and moderate on most issues. The political parties have decided that their collective futures lie in the extremes of both parties, what talking heads call the base. And those talking heads, desperate to fill airtime, perpetuate the myth that we are a deeply divided country. I don't buy it. I would love to see a poll with "independent" or "moderate" as an option, or at least none-of-the-above.
I suspect that if you went around the country with a poll asking questions about the issues rather than 'republican or democrat', you'd find that more people agree on them than don't. Throwing labels on folks just doesn't work nowadays.

When we vote, I'll bet 9 times out of 10, we don't vote for the candidate we believe in. We vote for the candidate who we feel will do the least amount of damage once given the office.
 
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