POA acronym

TangoWhiskey

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Messages
14,210
Location
Midlothian, TX
Display Name
3Green
Home Airfield
KJWY - Mid-Way Regional
I've been less participatory on POA lately due to work. Finally spent some time today trying to catch up, and I swear it feels like every other thread just devolves into yet another multi page whizzing match between two or more argumentative people.

Sheesh!! I think I'll go fly.

POA = ****ing-matches of America these days!
 
Agreed. I know we've lost active participants in the past as people just tuned out after reading this sort of stuff. Hope that doesn't happen again.
 
You mean there's a way to stop it????????
 
At some point, one can click on "Thread Tools" and "Ignore this thread". Though, I usually just skim past them visually...
 
It's an election year? :dunno:

It's the economy? :dunno:

It's avgas prices? :dunno:

It's male menopause? :dunno:
 
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I'm up to twelve people on "ignore". Sad but true

BTW, Troy, maybe Pr*cks of America is just as appropriate.
 
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You're not the only one that feels this way. We're doing the best we can. I won't/can't speak for the rest of the MC, but I'm very tired of it.

One of the major problems as I've come to see it is people interjecting opinions into a thread where non were asked. If somebody asks "how can I get my iphone to do this?" there just isn't a reason to come into the thread and say "iPhones suck!". It's sad to say that. We used to have a LOT of fun on the board doing that sort of thing. But, in all honesty, the board was a lot smaller then...and I feel that the membership was probably more respectful of each other.

In general, if two friends are talking, one friend will welcome another friend's contrary opinion.

If two strangers are talking...contrary opinions just simply aren't as welcome. Yes, I do understand that this is a discussion board. Yes, I do think that some people need thicker skin. But I also think that people need to fight that little urge inside of them to inject some sort of opinion into situations where it simply isn't welcome...especially when that opinion has a moral or policial slant.

Let's concentrate on helping each other. Let's stop nitpicking. Let's stop interjecting opinions when they're not likely to be welcomed. Let's keep threads on topic.

Hey, a guy can dream...right?
 
True, but we have our share...and maybe that includes me...I don't know!
 
Troy, I agree 100%. My wife and I have effectively stopped participating in the board for the reasons you state. Of course, we've also been a bit busy, as you know.

When I joined 5 years ago, the board was overall friendly. Not what I would've liked it to be (there were issues then), but these days most of what I see are a bunch of know-it-all wanna-bes (and a few know-it-alls who actually have some experience) who are more interested in patting themselves on the back and stabbing others in the back than folks who want to have a stimulating, productive discussion.

I hope that things improve. In the mean time, I'll probably not come by here very frequently.
 
I'll bring it up again (not so jokingly this time)...

Have a monthly vote and the top 5 vote getters are banned for 30 days. Make it into the "top 5" three times and you're permanently banned.

That might clear the waters...
 
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I'll bring it up again (not so jokingly this time)...

Have a monthly vote and the top 5 vote getters are banned for 30 days. Make it into the "top 5" three times and you're permanently banned.

That might clear the waters...

Sort of like the "Survivor" of message boards. Now that could be interesting, until of course you find your popularity isn't as good as you thought and get the boot.

There is something flawed with the concept but I can't quite put my finger on it.....
 
until of course you find your popularity isn't as good as you thought and get the boot.

So be it!

My earth won't quit spinning.

I have left this place voluntarily for months at a time due to the tortfeasors. It wouldn't be the end of the world to leave involuntarily.
 
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Jason's thoughts are in line with mine. There are still a lot of great people on the board and many whom I count as my friends. The best way to keep the nastiness in check is to ignore it and continue to speak civil to each other. Friendly ( not nasty) reminders to those that get a bit testy help as well. It shows folks that the MC is not the only ones who are keeping an eye out for the community.
 
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So be it!

My earth won't quit spinning.

I have left this place voluntarily for months at a time due to the tortfeasors. It wouldn't be the end of the world to leave involuntarily.
I had to laugh at that one Tim. I've taken a vacation several times. I lost my medical a few years back, let my IA lapse, and haven't worked on an airplane in three years. Often times I feel like POA is my last finger hold on aviation. If I leave here I'm done. So I stay. My problem is with SZ. To me it is like cigarettes, I just can't kick the habit even though I know it is not good for me. I figure I'll move on someday though. I spend most of my time in Hanger Talk or Spin Zone anymore, so it isn't like I'm talking aviation a lot.
 
I concur with Jason's assessment. And I'm quite disappointed that we've seen some of our best contributors leave.

I'm not quite sure what to do about it. We've taken a position against heavy moderation (as some other boards do), and we've left areas like Spin ZOne for more open discussions. Really, the rules are pretty simple. What we seem to have gotten in return is a reincarnation of Usenet. And frankly, it's not nearly as fun to be around as it was when we were all pretty friendly with a diversity of opinions.

Personally, I'm all ears for suggestions.
 
I had to laugh at that one Tim. I've taken a vacation several times. I lost my medical a few years back, let my IA lapse, and haven't worked on an airplane in three years. Often times I feel like POA is my last finger hold on aviation. If I leave here I'm done. So I stay. My problem is with SZ. To me it is like cigarettes, I just can't kick the habit even though I know it is not good for me. I figure I'll move on someday though. I spend most of my time in Hanger Talk or Spin Zone anymore, so it isn't like I'm talking aviation a lot.

ROLMAO:rofl: I think there are more folks who think who have the same SZ addiction. Perhaps we should start a 12 step program and support group :D
 
Most if not all of the posters above mine have been nose to nose with someone. Sure wish you guys would get a grip. :rolleyes:



;)


Interesting how we all have halos over our heads. :fingerwag:
 
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Personally, I'm all ears for suggestions.

Tell those that want to go off topic with another member, or who want to have a PM with another member, to take it to PM.

I don't argue their right to argue. But it's like at a bar... If two patrons want to duke it out, they can take it to the parking lot.

Could become a new thread signal. If people start telling two others to "take it to the parking lot", they should take the clue that they're being asked politely to vacate the thread and take their PM to PM. If they ignore the other patrons and continue fighting in the bar, they get kicked out till they sober up.
 
Could become a new thread signal. If people start telling two others to "take it to the parking lot", they should take the clue that they're being asked politely to vacate the thread and take their PM to PM.

Yeah, except that the typical tortfeasors will probably respond with something similar to:

As true to form for this forum, we react to the thread creep. good, bad or indifferent, that's the way it as always been here at the blue boards.
Most of them apparently just don't get it. Or their egos get in the way.
 
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Tell those that want to go off topic with another member, or who want to have a PM with another member, to take it to PM.

I don't argue their right to argue. But it's like at a bar... If two patrons want to duke it out, they can take it to the parking lot.

Could become a new thread signal. If people start telling two others to "take it to the parking lot", they should take the clue that they're being asked politely to vacate the thread and take their PM to PM. If they ignore the other patrons and continue fighting in the bar, they get kicked out till they sober up.

Great idea, I have done that many times.
 
All I can say is that there is something special about some of the pilots on this forum. You would think this was a quilting forum.
 
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I concur with Jason's assessment. And I'm quite disappointed that we've seen some of our best contributors leave.

I'm not quite sure what to do about it. We've taken a position against heavy moderation (as some other boards do), and we've left areas like Spin ZOne for more open discussions. Really, the rules are pretty simple. What we seem to have gotten in return is a reincarnation of Usenet. And frankly, it's not nearly as fun to be around as it was when we were all pretty friendly with a diversity of opinions.

Personally, I'm all ears for suggestions.

Nowhere close to disruptions of Usenet proportions.

But, where do you draw the line? Wherever you do it, you will be wrong - all you can do is hope half the people think you drew it too restrictivly and half not restrictivly enough. And some people will leave because there is too much censorship and others because there is not enough.

How was that for no help at all?
 
Yesterday I flew on my first cross country since getting certificated. It was an unfamiliar airport. I landed on a crosswind runway and spent a bit of time taxing around looking for parking. Eventually i tossed my plane in front of a hangar and wandered around with my son. Want over to the restaurant, bought some stuff, used the wrong verbs and drank the water like they say.

On my way out another pilot took the time to lecture me about everything I had done wrong. Keep in mind my mistakes were all based on local convention, not the FARs or the AFD or charts. I was polite and departed thinking to myself that that is sometimes how it feels to post here as a new pilot or a student. The guy want lecturing me to help me. He wanted to make sure I knew who was superior.

Airports, like aviation minded online communities, depend on a friendly enthusiastic group that is passionate about what they do and eager to share that passion. Egos need to be checked at the door.

At some point, we all have used the wrong verb and spent the night on the toilet after sampling the water. No superstars, just community.

Sent from my SGH-I777 to annoy people.
 
On my way out another pilot took the time to lecture me about everything I had done wrong.
In front of your son? I applaud your restraint, sir, for not departing that airport having dispensed a fat lip.

Whether there or here, I guess sometimes we need to just exercise a little restraint and keep in mind that we don't always need to respond to every slight, real or imagined, in kind. If someone does or says something out of line, I try -- don't always succeed, but I try -- to let it go and walk away, and let karma run its course. Like I always say...


Time wounds all heels.
 
I'm a sucker for a follow-up post. I freely admit that I find it hard to walk away from a ****ing match. I count it as a character flaw, and I fight the tendency with varying levels of success, but it is an ongoing issue with me.

From time to time I see outstanding examples of self restraint where someone doesn't rise to the challenge when "called out" by some ego-challenged poster. I wish I were that good.

Hi. My name is Steve, and I have a weakness for arguments on internet forums.
 
Tell those that want to go off topic with another member, or who want to have a PM with another member, to take it to PM.

I have only one problem with that, and it stems from a situation where I literally was "Internet stalked" by someone. He even put up a website in my "honor".

Long story short, I was the only person willing and able to tell him something like it was, and he didn't like it. I had 20-25 e-mails from people thanking me for doing so, but none of those people ever posted their thanks in public.

The guy called my place of work and tried to get me fired over postings he didn't like. Seriously. Thankfully, the CEO laughed and said, "Oh, I had some ass like that try to do that to me with the Board of Directors last year." as he smiled and walked off.

So... I don't do Private arguments anymore. You have something to say to me, you say it in public. Or we don't talk. Or you're already my friend.

I've been involved with some of the banter, as we all have. I will attempt not to drag posts off on side-tangents too badly in the future.

One thought there, similar to the "take it outside" is if the forum had a feature where a split could be done by a moderator. Problem is, I've been a moderator before and know that's probably an unreasonable burden. If not, pop the side-discussion out of the main thread and let the folks that want to go, have at it. Maybe one solution.

I'll tell you this... I will never block anyone here. I find it wrong. But I harbor no ill will toward those who do. One thing I do find odd, is that you can't see if someone did block you. I mean, perhaps you really didn't know you'd bothered them THAT much, and would like some feedback. Maybe you'd change just a little. But, if they're too cowardly to tell you, you're never going to know.

I guess I'll leave it with this. Internet forums go through times of good and bad behavior. Seen that Merry Go Round go around a few times. It ain't no big thing.

But yeah, after a while a post like Troy's shows up and we all realize it's time to tone it down a bit.

And one more thing. The thread by Tom about Through The Fence really shows it. If we who love Aviation don't stop just saying to even our own who say, "That's just the way it is" when crap happens like Tom described of mechanics being locked out of airports by stupid and useless rules and regulations that provide nothing of value for anyone other than NON-aviators and aviation folk, and instead just throw regulation books at each other, we're going to die.

If you're pro-Aviation you'd better think about it long and hard before you post another word saying the rule book say this and that while your mechanic is saying "I may not be able to get on the airport someday". Tax law? Business licenses? Contracts that don't allow them? Etc. We should be in one accord there. It's wrong. Flat wrong.

We do not have a organization or group left in the real world that will really stand up and tell others what aviation people need and want. AOPA doesn't do it. EAA is in the process of losing it. They bowed to making money over being unpopular in Washington long ago. They have the numbers and won't use them. Scared of their own shadows.

The last best place for aviation to say, "Hey, this sucks. Let's fix it." is the Internet. We all know it.

We're here to meet and talk with like-minded people. Aviation people. We don't want the censorship of our so-called big-tent organization's boards. But with that freedom comes a responsibility to behave.

I'll try to do better. Because I want, more than anything, to see aviation thrive as best as it can in whatever way it can. I wouldn't be here if it weren't so.

Thanks for the reminder Troy.
 
I was away for a week and the new post count was 4500. I don't post all that often any more, I do lurk a little. A little being th operative phrase though.
 
I'll tell you this... I will never block anyone here. I find it wrong. But I harbor no ill will toward those who do. One thing I do find odd, is that you can't see if someone did block you. I mean, perhaps you really didn't know you'd bothered them THAT much, and would like some feedback. Maybe you'd change just a little. But, if they're too cowardly to tell you, you're never going to know.

Maybe the software should send an automatic PM "Denver Pilot just put you on his ignore list" for those who don't send one themselves.

Also, what if your personal profile had a line "XXX members have placed you on ignore"?

You make a good point about letting people know, I've let a few know, but not all, I'll fix that today.
 
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Maybe the software should send an automatic PM "Denver Pilot just put you on his ignore list" for those who don't send one themselves.

Also, what if your personal profile had a line "XXX members have placed you on ignore"?

You make a good point about letting people know, I've let a few know, but not all, I'll fix that today.
that would be a useful thing.
 
I'll tell you this... I will never block anyone here. I find it wrong.
I am curious as to why you feel this way, Nate.

Me, I simply view it the same as being at a company Christmas party and staying across the room and out of earshot from the office boor and all his boorish cronies.

Same diff. There you accomplish the task with physical separation. Here, with the touch of a button.
 
NO THEY DON'T!!!!! :D

He shoots, he scores! :D

---

Folks, it comes down to this question:

Are you going to conduct yourself as a responsible adult?

If the answer is, “No,” then you will have difficulty dealing with the world at large wherever you go, whether it be in real world or cyber world.

If the answer is, “Yes,” then there are a couple of things you need to bear in mind in order to honor this commitment.

1. Treat others with a reasonable measure of respect. This means, consider the impact of words you might use; ask yourself: “Would I say this thing I am about to post, if the person or group to whom it is addressed were standing right here in the room with me?”

And, concurrently -

2. Don’t over-react to what some few people say.

This second one is important to bear in mind. There is nothing whatsoever organically different about one forum by comparison to others - nothing here makes someone more likely or less likely to say or do anything. It’s a community, and it’s up to each and all of us as members of a community to help define its direction, its tenor.

Some people are smooth and polished in their presentation of what they have to say; some are rough and crusty. There is no need to leap to the peak of Butt-Hurt Mountain as soon as you read something you don’t like - if there are several interpretations of what you’ve read (and there almost always are), consider the benign instead of the bad.

If a participant is out of bounds, don’t respond in kind - click the “bad post” button. If a participant’s behavior is toxic, and yet does not violate the RoC, engage the MC in a discussion of what you think should be done about it. We can adapt, have adapted, will do in the future - but we need your active and honorable help to do so.

What you should never do - must never do - is simply throw down the “I’m outta here” card when you don’t like the tone. Inevitably, these result from the ugly actions of a very small proportion of the members here, and that amounts to throwing out the baby with the bathwater. The problems we experience here will occur, in one way or another, most anywhere you go, and when you do the bail-out routine, you’re effectively saying, “I give more weight to the irritating few and their muckraking than the vast majority of you who choose to participate honorably; the heck with you good guys.” Just does not seem right- because it isn't.

It has been my good fortune to have participated in this community, in its formative years and since, and I have been enriched beyond measure as a direct result. I have made friends whom I will treasure for the rest of my life, and no doubt as to some, for the rest of theirs (indeed, I’ve had to bid one such fellow pilot fair winds). There are many here upon whom I know I can rely, as true friends in any circumstance. This bunch has worked out to be something more than common-interest friends; it is another family. We have watched relationships start and blossom through this group, and many here have served as mentors for others, in life, in work and (of course) in aviation.

It ain’t perfect, but it sure is entertaining; a straight and level stretch of road is smooth, but presents no useful challenges and is dull. Same here.

So, step up - if you see a problem, be, by example, part of the solution. If you don’t like the way people act, show them the better way by example. For most, the message comes through pretty clearly and if, from time to time, it does not settle in, well, regard it as the opportunity to demonstrate benevolent tolerance.

Trust me, it will show.
 
I concur with Jason's assessment. And I'm quite disappointed that we've seen some of our best contributors leave.

I'm not quite sure what to do about it. We've taken a position against heavy moderation (as some other boards do), and we've left areas like Spin ZOne for more open discussions. Really, the rules are pretty simple. What we seem to have gotten in return is a reincarnation of Usenet. And frankly, it's not nearly as fun to be around as it was when we were all pretty friendly with a diversity of opinions.

Personally, I'm all ears for suggestions.

A community is made up of its members, and typically, certain members just don't get along. That's fine, we're human and it happens. The problem is that we are in a setup where everyone is part of the conversation. If I want to go off and have a conversation with Troy, Wayne, and some of my other favorite folks, my best bet is to get dinner with them in Dallas. We don't have to worry about bickering, because we're all friends and like eachother. At least, they're nice enough to pretend to like me. ;)

Now, let's say I try the same thing here. Well, I can't have a private thread with only who I want to chat with. This means I may get some responses that are non-value-added and only serve to derail the thread. This is less common with smaller groups, simply because typically those who aren't well-liked will leave on their own. The internet makes things worse because it's easier for people to be more rude than they would dare be in real life, and things are easily misinterpreted. Then you have the people that make statements that are outright wrong, and often violate the laws of physics (we'll forget about the FARs). I have a problem with these people, not because they're wrong, but because someone else who doesn't know better might believe them.

I'm not sure of the solution, since I think part of it is endemic to the growth we've experienced. My personal solution has been to keep in touch with the people I like via Facebook, eMail, and phone, and minimize my participation in the forum. Given that I now have substantially less free time than I had previously, this works better for me anyway. That said, I do wish that things would get to the point where coming back here felt like coming back to an old friend's house, rather than someone I stopped speaking to with good reason.
 
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