Pleasance out at AOPA

I was thinking the same thing. The NRA got caught with the CEO (LaPierre) soaking the association for hundreds of thousands for many years with excessive travel claims, mega-expensive custom-made suits, and more. The board was totally put of touch and had long ago ceded all oversight to him.

I would’ve canceled my membership, but I was already a paid-in-full Life Member (initially joined in 1986).

At least with the NRA we can change the board. That’s still going on, but most of the LaPierre cronies have now been removed. You can even submit write-in candidates.
 
I'm wondering how many have migrated to EAA like I have as a response to this firing? I wonder if EAA, seeing this influx of ex-AOPA, might consider standing up a section that caters to the Certified A/C membership as a side support channel to let those members know they are welcomed. Something like EAA-C, or just under the EAA banner, but giving a little respect to those that have certified airplanes while still focusing on the at large mission of helping GA move forward. Wishful thinking I know...but I just see a real good opportunity for EAA to galvanize the many disenfranchised ex-AOPAts that are looking for a home and more important, advocacy. Maybe they call it Every Aircraft Association???
 
I'm wondering how many have migrated to EAA like I have as a response to this firing? I wonder if EAA, seeing this influx of ex-AOPA, might consider standing up a section that caters to the Certified A/C membership as a side support channel to let those members know they are welcomed. Something like EAA-C, or just under the EAA banner, but giving a little respect to those that have certified airplanes while still focusing on the at large mission of helping GA move forward. Wishful thinking I know...but I just see a real good opportunity for EAA to galvanize the many disenfranchised ex-AOPAts that are looking for a home and more important, advocacy. Maybe they call it Every Aircraft Association???

EAA already includes a vintage aircraft association, and many (probably most) vintage aircraft are certified. https://www.eaa.org/eaa/aviation-interests/vintage-aircraft-association
 
I do think there is some merit to the idea of rebranding the EAA to more fully embrace the 2-4 seat certified piston fleet, which seems to be stuck in the gray zone between the EAA and AOPA.

Maybe create a new network of nationwide chapters called the SCA (Spam Can Association)?

But seriously, I think your average 172 or Cherokee owner has a lot more in common with an RV owner than with a King Air or Citation operator. Cheap parts, flexible maintenance regs, saving grass roots airfields, more hangars, pushing back on new equipment mandates, etc.

Recreational Aircraft Association?
 
I do think there is some merit to the idea of rebranding the EAA to more fully embrace the 2-4 seat certified piston fleet, which seems to be stuck in the gray zone between the EAA and AOPA.

Maybe create a new network of nationwide chapters called the SCA (Spam Can Association)?

But seriously, I think your average 172 or Cherokee owner has a lot more in common with an RV owner than with a King Air or Citation operator. Cheap parts, flexible maintenance regs, saving grass roots airfields, more hangars, pushing back on new equipment mandates, etc.

Recreational Aircraft Association?

BSU?

Bug Smashers United?
 
I do think there is some merit to the idea of rebranding the EAA to more fully embrace the 2-4 seat certified piston fleet, which seems to be stuck in the gray zone between the EAA and AOPA.

Maybe create a new network of nationwide chapters called the SCA (Spam Can Association)?

But seriously, I think your average 172 or Cherokee owner has a lot more in common with an RV owner than with a King Air or Citation operator. Cheap parts, flexible maintenance regs, saving grass roots airfields, more hangars, pushing back on new equipment mandates, etc.

Recreational Aircraft Association?

I agree, but it might be worth reminding people that "Vintage" in EAA-speak means aircraft built in 1970 or earlier. Many of the planes we're flying fit that definition. The EAA already has a rather wide umbrella. It might be worth widening it a bit more.
 
I do think there is some merit to the idea of rebranding the EAA to more fully embrace the 2-4 seat certified piston fleet, which seems to be stuck in the gray zone between the EAA and AOPA.

Maybe create a new network of nationwide chapters called the SCA (Spam Can Association)?

But seriously, I think your average 172 or Cherokee owner has a lot more in common with an RV owner than with a King Air or Citation operator. Cheap parts, flexible maintenance regs, saving grass roots airfields, more hangars, pushing back on new equipment mandates, etc.

Recreational Aircraft Association?
There's already the RAF. Recreational aviation foundation.

EAA helped dynon get the stc for their d10 efis. Tells me EAA is more mindful to certified spam cans than the AOPA is

 
All the orgs struggle to keep their messaging and purpose in front of their members and remind them "this is what we're doing for you".

I've found the areas of overlap between EAA and AOPA somewhat confusing for a while, but those areas are based around keeping pilots enthused about flying and connecting them with other pilots.

Maybe eaa hasn’t been so pointed at aiming at GA to avoid alienating the EAB folks? Or exhibitors like Aopa?
 
I hope those in power at EAA is reading these ideas and have the foresight to see the bigger picture and how they could really position themselves. I've been all over the various message boards, Reddit, etc., and it's clear to me that they are the landing spot for ex-AOPAts like myself. My hope is they see this opportunity to really bolster their numbers by simply adding some support for us type owners and give us a well regarded, managed and advocated landing spot for membership. And to the earlier point, yes, I feel my 4 place 182 is closer to a RV-10 than some of the airplanes I see on the cover of AOPA magazine.

I mean, think about AirVenture? It's EAA, but everybody associates it with GA fly in. I mean, the connection is already there in both the hearts and minds of owners like myself. Just add a little wing to the organization with arms wide open, and we'll come. Heck, they could put Darren in charge of that subsection of EAA!

EAA could be the preemintate advocate for General Aviation, focusing on Experimental, Legacy, Small Certified, and Owners.
 
For all the concern that AOPA represents big money, Jets or turbines, I think a lot of people don’t seem to connect the fact that what makes an organization an effective lobbyist at a national level isn’t representing a large number of people so much as representing a large pile of money.

You want to be lumped in to the extent that you don’t have a conflict of interest with groups that are seen as having money by the people making bars rules
 
For all the concern that AOPA represents big money, Jets or turbines, I think a lot of people don’t seem to connect the fact that what makes an organization an effective lobbyist at a national level isn’t representing a large number of people so much as representing a large pile of money.

You want to be lumped in to the extent that you don’t have a conflict of interest with groups that are seen as having money by the people making bars rules
Bingo.

By themselves, NBAA doesn't care about user fees, ramp fees, or 100LL. But when AOPA and NBAA go to Congress together to talk about, say, ATC problems, everything AOPA says about everything else radiates the NBAA financial halo.
 
Anytime I see RAF mentioned, I find it confusing. RAF is already a common acronym in aviation, the Royal Air Force.
Same. But it's a pretty great grassroots organization... With some cool swag
 
I'm wondering how many have migrated to EAA like I have as a response to this firing?
A very large number of us were already there. EAA has been the better org for GA pilots in general for quite a while now - I'd say, at least the past 15 years. Really, more like 17 years, since Boyer retired. It's been all downhill from there.

I wonder if EAA, seeing this influx of ex-AOPA, might consider standing up a section that caters to the Certified A/C membership as a side support channel to let those members know they are welcomed. Something like EAA-C, or just under the EAA banner, but giving a little respect to those that have certified airplanes while still focusing on the at large mission of helping GA move forward. Wishful thinking I know...but I just see a real good opportunity for EAA to galvanize the many disenfranchised ex-AOPAts that are looking for a home and more important, advocacy. Maybe they call it Every Aircraft Association???
What do they need to "cater to certified aircraft"? When they accomplish their mission for experimental aircraft, generally they are also helping out with certified aircraft. They also don't restrict themselves to experimental aircraft - They were heavily involved in MOSAIC, which makes it easier to *certify* aircraft, for example. And where do all of the certified aircraft/avionics/engine/STC/everything makers go to announce and show off their wares? Oshkosh.

EAA is already the best place to be for certified owners and pilots. C'mon over, the water's fine.

But seriously, I think your average 172 or Cherokee owner has a lot more in common with an RV owner than with a King Air or Citation operator. Cheap parts, flexible maintenance regs, saving grass roots airfields, more hangars, pushing back on new equipment mandates, etc.
And EAA already does more than AOPA on all of that.

Recreational Aircraft Association?
The Recreational Avaition Foundation would like a word...
 
I have read several EAA Sport magazines lying around the FBO. I will say, I do like more of the columnist within AOPA Pilot, but I also like the general articles within Sport. Like I said in another thread, I’m taking a wait and see position, but did fire “a shot across the bow” by removing my automatic AOPA renewal.
 
I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect that the AOPA will largely ignore ~1% of members withdrawing proxies and dropping autorenew and signing a petition. What might get some attention would be contacting AOPA advertisers and politely voicing displeasure. It might not take too many contacts before a few prominent companies began to call AOPA and say "WTH are you doing?! You're pizzing off our customers!"
 
Mostly focused on fly in camping, right?
Sort of. Mostly making/keeping strips open and accessible and let one recreate. I believe @EdFred's dad had a lot to do with reopening 6y3. A few weeks ago there was a question about the "chicken strip". A landing strip not even on a sectional located in death valley. Whether or not you camp is up to you.

 
I'm wondering how many have migrated to EAA like I have as a response to this firing? I wonder if EAA, seeing this influx of ex-AOPA, might consider standing up a section that caters to the Certified A/C membership as a side support channel to let those members know they are welcomed. Something like EAA-C, or just under the EAA banner, but giving a little respect to those that have certified airplanes while still focusing on the at large mission of helping GA move forward. Wishful thinking I know...but I just see a real good opportunity for EAA to galvanize the many disenfranchised ex-AOPAts that are looking for a home and more important, advocacy. Maybe they call it Every Aircraft Association???
I think much of what goes under piston/prop-driven GenAv is better off as "experimental" anyway. Welcome the refugees with open arms -- you can do so much of your own maintenance! No more $500 "certified" versions of $50 auto parts. Anyone with a hankering to empty their wallets can fly a Cirrus.
 
I do think there is some merit to the idea of rebranding the EAA to more fully embrace the 2-4 seat certified piston fleet, which seems to be stuck in the gray zone between the EAA and AOPA.
For the sake of the flying purple spaghetti monster, NO! Seriously, I've been griping about the reduction in the quality and quantity of serious homebuilt content in EAA's magazine for 20 years. If it gets worse, I'll have to leave EAA and form a New EAA that has a focus on the experimental market, which (along with the turbine market) is the only growth in GA.
 
For the sake of the flying purple spaghetti monster, NO! Seriously, I've been griping about the reduction in the quality and quantity of serious homebuilt content in EAA's magazine for 20 years. If it gets worse, I'll have to leave EAA and form a New EAA that has a focus on the experimental market, which (along with the turbine market) is the only growth in GA.
Can't we all just get along? The certified things that happen in relation is what allows EAA to exist, just like how the turbine stuff is what allows both to exist to at least some extent.

The presence of certified types like me in EAA doesn't hurt the magazine.
 
I think a lot of people don’t seem to connect the fact that what makes an organization an effective lobbyist at a national level isn’t representing a large number of people so much as representing a large pile of money.
But being able to say, “we have 300,000 people behind our money,” is more effective than, “we represent 10,000 rich pilots.”

And less effective than the 400,000+ people 15 years ago.
 
But being able to say, “we have 300,000 people behind our money,” is more effective than, “we represent 10,000 rich pilots.”

And less effective than the 400,000+ people 15 years ago.

Yes, to some extent. But consider that the NRA, with something like 4M members, has fewer wins than some of the smaller organizations. Florida got open carry last year thanks to GOA; the NRA never accomplished squat. Sometimes what matters are strategy and tactics, not numbers.

When was the last time the AOPA had a win in court?
 
Yes, to some extent. But consider that the NRA, with something like 4M members, has fewer wins than some of the smaller organizations. Florida got open carry last year thanks to GOA; the NRA never accomplished squat. Sometimes what matters are strategy and tactics, not numbers.

When was the last time the AOPA had a win in court?
Yeah, AOPA doesn’t appear to be trying to leverage much of anything.
 
Can't we all just get along? The certified things that happen in relation is what allows EAA to exist, just like how the turbine stuff is what allows both to exist to at least some extent.

The presence of certified types like me in EAA doesn't hurt the magazine.
EAA existed just fine before they threw open the gates to certified content. I honestly don't mind the certified stuff, but when it crowds out the group that has always been the organization's backbone, something's wrong. Think about this. The warbird, vintage, and aerobatic communities all have their own dedicated publications and organizations under the bigger EAA banner. EAA discontinued "The Experimenter" and "rolled its content into Sport Aviation". Unfortunately, SA typically has 20% of the "experimental" content we used to enjoy between SA and The Experimenter. Twenty years ago, SA had tremendous experimental content every month. Now we might get one decent article. And the magazine is clogged with preachy columns and barely veiled advertisements. (See the Lift Aviation story in the latest issue.).

In summary, EAA is the best we have but has strayed far away from its roots. AOPA started out as an organization centered around everyday Joe's who owned and flew Cessnas and Beechcraft. Then the organization moved to the turbine market and those Cessna and Beechcraft folks migrated to EAA. While this thread beeyotches about missing the "Old AOPA", I beeyotch about missing the "Old EAA".
 
Yes, to some extent. But consider that the NRA, with something like 4M members, has fewer wins than some of the smaller organizations. Florida got open carry last year thanks to GOA; the NRA never accomplished squat. Sometimes what matters are strategy and tactics, not numbers.

When was the last time the AOPA had a win in court?
Sometimes these organizations employ fear mongering tactics and accomplish absolutely nothing. But they still need your help and employ more fear mongering.

At a certain point you gotta **** or get off the pot if you want my money.
 
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Yes, to some extent. But consider that the NRA, with something like 4M members, has fewer wins than some of the smaller organizations. Florida got open carry last year thanks to GOA; the NRA never accomplished squat. Sometimes what matters are strategy and tactics, not numbers.

When was the last time the AOPA had a win in court?
That's where I'm at. Small groups in Texas did way more than the NRA ever did for 2A stuff.
 
That's where I'm at. Small groups in Texas did way more than the NRA ever did for 2A stuff.
Yeah, NYSRPA did way more for NY and the country than NRA, too. A good group.

Does anyone in congress still fly? I'm just wondering if they do, if they're members of any pilot group, and being elected by regular people how they'd be with the election process of this one. The curiosity is along the lines of how a lobbying call goes. Do they start out with "Well, me and six other guys were thinking..."?

I don't know, maybe that's mean. Because to be fair, in terms of lobbying, you kinda give them your vote when you pay your dues.
 
Although I'm appalled by AOPA's governance, one thing I can say in the organization's defense is that their BasicMed online course was a lot less time-consuming than Mayo's the last time I took it.
 
Think about this. The warbird, vintage, and aerobatic communities all have their own dedicated publications and organizations under the bigger EAA banner. EAA discontinued "The Experimenter" and "rolled its content into Sport Aviation".
That doesn't tell me that EAA is moving away from experimentals, though... That tells me that EAA reaffirmed itself as being all about experimentals.

Unfortunately, SA typically has 20% of the "experimental" content we used to enjoy between SA and The Experimenter.
Is there anyone who knows things and is willing to write the experimental content? That's half the battle sometimes.

Also, are there new subjects to be covered, or are we just going to hear all about how to rivet for the 14th time? That's one issue with all of the aviation mags, and I think Flight Training was probably the worst. There's 5 years of content at best, and it just gets recycled over and over again.

AOPA started out as an organization centered around everyday Joe's who owned and flew Cessnas and Beechcraft. Then the organization moved to the turbine market and those Cessna and Beechcraft folks migrated to EAA.
It's my fault - I got tired of the same old crap and I changed my AOPA subscription to the AOPA Pilot Turbine edition so I could learn new stuff and ogle shiny airplanes I'll never be able to afford. Ironically, now I'm flying jets.
 
That doesn't tell me that EAA is moving away from experimentals, though... That tells me that EAA reaffirmed itself as being all about experimentals.

Is there anyone who knows things and is willing to write the experimental content? That's half the battle sometimes.

Also, are there new subjects to be covered, or are we just going to hear all about how to rivet for the 14th time? That's one issue with all of the aviation mags, and I think Flight Training was probably the worst. There's 5 years of content at best, and it just gets recycled over and over again.
RE: Your italicized statement... I don't see how reducing the experimental content by 75% reaffirms EAA's focus or effort in the experimental arena. It suggests that EAA is meandering away from its base, just like AOPA has.

As far as content and capable writers go, I think there is plenty of content and I think there are plenty of writers. I miss the hands-on content Tony Bingelis brought in a monthly column. His content wasn't about "luckily I have a 50K SF shop with a CNC mill, 200 ton hydroform press, show-quality paint booth, and an overhead crane". It was about building airplanes in his garage and driveway with ingenuity and tools everyman already has or can afford. I miss the CAFE foundation's reports where they did an in-depth performance review of one or two homebuilts a year. Those were incredible. I also miss the design and engineering articles which went into technical subjects at something beyond a middle school level. They actually taught things in the magazine.

Look, EAA is still great. I really appreciate it. I just wish it had maintained the same level of experimental content, either through an enhanced "Experimenter" or through more column space in Sport Aviation.
 
No dog in this fight as I let my AOPA membership lapse a few years ago for all the previously stated reasons. Because of that I didn't even know Mr. Pleasance was the new CEO. After reading through the controversy, it's a real shame because he seemed to be an ideal leader to bring AOPA back and maybe I along with thousands of former members would have joined again.

In any case Mr. Pleasance's firing is probably going to be AOPA's doom as it's clear none of the AOPA board members want to have anything to do with engaging membership and managing the organization. Based on what has transpired, what competent manager in their right mind would take over to lead AOPA? That leaves AOPA as a rudderless sinking ship. Sad.
 
Let's say this whole kerfuffle goes as badly as it could and AOPA shrinks to nothingness. Who then represents piston GA in Washington? EAA isn't interested or equipped for that. They don't even have an office close to DC.

I love EAA, but it isn't much of an advocacy group. It's an annual theme park with a year-round gift shop.

AOPA has absolutely stepped on its crank. But we need an effective AOPA. At present, there's no valid substitute. Maybe something like a dues strike is in order, with a plan to re-join when they restructure the Board. Comments like "I've hated AOPA since the Wine Club. EAA is better" show a misunderstanding about how these groups work.
 
Let's say this whole kerfuffle goes as badly as it could and AOPA shrinks to nothingness. Who then represents piston GA in Washington? EAA isn't interested or equipped for that. They don't even have an office close to DC.

I love EAA, but it isn't much of an advocacy group. It's an annual theme park with a year-round gift shop.

AOPA has absolutely stepped on its crank. But we need an effective AOPA. At present, there's no valid substitute. Maybe something like a dues strike is in order, with a plan to re-join when they restructure the Board. Comments like "I've hated AOPA since the Wine Club. EAA is better" show a misunderstanding about how these groups work.
I'm sorry, but with their "efforts" on ADS-B, and other things, I'm not sure that's a real loss. If we got the GOA equivalent of aviation to augment the NRA of aviation, we'd be in better shape in the future. Also, I'm pretty sure EAA did a lot more for MOSAIC than AOPA did, so I disagree with your assessment and have chosen to give EAA more money.
 
Also, I'm pretty sure EAA did a lot more for MOSAIC than AOPA did, so I disagree with your assessment and have chosen to give EAA more money.

What made MOSAIC happen was influence from foreign manufacturers of light aircraft who wanted to tap the US market.
 
What made MOSAIC happen was influence from foreign manufacturers of light aircraft who wanted to tap the US market.
There were also committees involved, and people who stepped up to the plate. I heard some about that from some people in the aerial photography world. I think EAA did more than AOPA for MOSAIC, for sure.
 
Let's say this whole kerfuffle goes as badly as it could and AOPA shrinks to nothingness. Who then represents piston GA in Washington? EAA isn't interested or equipped for that. They don't even have an office close to DC.

I love EAA, but it isn't much of an advocacy group. It's an annual theme park with a year-round gift shop.

AOPA has absolutely stepped on its crank. But we need an effective AOPA. At present, there's no valid substitute. Maybe something like a dues strike is in order, with a plan to re-join when they restructure the Board. Comments like "I've hated AOPA since the Wine Club. EAA is better" show a misunderstanding about how these groups work.

AOPA's biggest benefit has been their ability to take credit for things that benefit GA that were going to happen anyway or happened as a course of natural evolution in the industry.

They failed the PBOR miserably until a senator was impacted and decided to introduce the bill - which AOPA then took credit for. They failed to do squat about the DC ADIZ (and even claimed it was not going to change the day before it did) and it only changed because of the EAA Lobby.

Their biggest win has continued to be user fees and the ASN. And hoarding a ton of cash.

I gave them a shot because it looked like they were ready to re-engage. I have about 4 months left in my membership....we will see what happens
 
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