Plane too Heavy

luvflyin

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Luvflyin
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I’m at the airport waiting to board an Alaska E170. It’s gonna be too heavy so they need to two folk to bail. The bidding started at $700. Musta got their volunteers, I haven’t heard anything since then. Anyway my wife started asking about how this works so I tell her about how there’s a standard weight for a person. Used to be 170 but it’s heavier now. I remember when they weighed everybody getting on. Yeah, I’m that old.
 
I’m at the airport waiting to board an Alaska E170. It’s gonna be too heavy so they need to two folk to bail. The bidding started at $700. Musta got their volunteers, I haven’t heard anything since then. Anyway my wife started asking about how this works so I tell her about how there’s a standard weight for a person. Used to be 170 but it’s heavier now. I remember when they weighed everybody getting on. Yeah, I’m that old.
Now (for us) its: Adults = 204 lbs and kids = 99 lbs
 
Years and years ago before I knew anything about flying or W & B, I was boarding a Beech 99 with my wife and in laws. For W & B reasons, they were asking passenger weights on entry and keeping the cabin load distributed. My then mother-in-law without any hesitation said, "450 pounds." She was an above average sized woman, but probably closer to 225-250 pounds.

My wife asked her why she said 450 and the reply was "well I don't want them to cut it too close! We need some margin for error!"

We all arrived safely!
 
I’m at the airport waiting to board an Alaska E170. It’s gonna be too heavy so they need to two folk to bail. The bidding started at $700. Musta got their volunteers, I haven’t heard anything since then. Anyway my wife started asking about how this works so I tell her about how there’s a standard weight for a person. Used to be 170 but it’s heavier now. I remember when they weighed everybody getting on. Yeah, I’m that old.
We lucked out last year and got $1500 each to catch a flight to Seattle two hours earlier. Was rebooked in first class for the rest of the trip also. Don’t disregard the emails they send asking for volunteers, you don’t have to accept the first offer but you’ll be asked first before the higher amounts are announced at the airport.
 
One time the airline wouldn't let myself and a friend board, overbooked. No offer at all. No idea how we were chosen. Really needed to get where we were going, talked our behinds off to get back on.
 
I recently had a United flight ask for two volunteers to rebook a later flight due to mechanical issues with two seats. Their offer moved to $600 before they got two takers. Just before boarding, maintenance fixed the seats and the two bumped passengers were allowed to board and made $600 in the process. Not bad pay of 20 minutes of work.
 
Oomph.... :oops:
I handily beat that number.
And that doesn't even include the weight from the 3 tubs of Crisco I carry in my onboard luggage in case I need an inflight snack.
I'd pile on, but I don't want to get all greasy. :D
 
Oomph.... :oops:
I handily beat that number.
And that doesn't even include the weight from the 3 tubs of Crisco I carry in my onboard luggage in case I need an inflight snack.

Is the Crisco to help slip into the narrow economy seats, or to try to get in and out of the lav?
 
If one is sufficiently below that figure, is he precluded from volunteering to wait and receiving a cash incentive?

As the name implies, “average weight” means just that. Each person is assumed to be that weight. Some are below, some are even and some are above. So the number assumes an average.

The crew or gate agents do not look at individuals and assume “oh he’s too heavy” or another guy is too light.

Being pulled off a flight typically deals with the type ticket purchased or volunteers to get a cash voucher.
 
I used to fly out of ATL every Monday morning for about 25 years (as a passenger). Certain cities, NYC, Chicago, LA were always asking for volunteers. The flights were full with business travelers and I had no option to take a bump. I had visions of once I retired, buying a ticket from ATL to one of the above and taking the cash. Worst case, I spend the day in NYC.
Moved to FL and don't have a reliable bump flight try it out.
 
I used to fly out of ATL every Monday morning for about 25 years (as a passenger). Certain cities, NYC, Chicago, LA were always asking for volunteers. The flights were full with business travelers and I had no option to take a bump. I had visions of once I retired, buying a ticket from ATL to one of the above and taking the cash. Worst case, I spend the day in NYC.
Moved to FL and don't have a reliable bump flight try it out.

Aren't Airlines prohibited from overbooking flights now?
 
Now (for us) its: Adults = 204 lbs and kids = 99 lbs
OMG! Do those numbers include the assumed weight of carry-ons? I've seen carry-ons that easily weighed 50 pounds.

I'd happily be weighed before boarding. It would be easy to put a scale at the boarding gate, so when your boarding pass is scanned you get weighed. This would also enable per pound over-weight surcharges. The over-weight surcharges could cover under-weight rewards. Wealth redistribution!

(Grammar snob: Plane too Heavy)
 
OMG! Do those numbers include the assumed weight of carry-ons? I've seen carry-ons that easily weighed 50 pounds.

I'd happily be weighed before boarding. It would be easy to put a scale at the boarding gate, so when your boarding pass is scanned you get weighed. This would also enable per pound over-weight surcharges. The over-weight surcharges could cover under-weight rewards. Wealth redistribution!

(Grammar snob: Plane too Heavy)

Think it takes a long time to board airplanes now? Imagine how long it would take with this system in place.
 
As the name implies, “average weight” means just that. Each person is assumed to be that weight. Some are below, some are even and some are above. So the number assumes an average.

The crew or gate agents do not look at individuals and assume “oh he’s too heavy” or another guy is too light.

Being pulled off a flight typically deals with the type ticket purchased or volunteers to get a cash voucher.
So for every one of me, they're assuming one 255 pounder. :eek2:
(Yes, I know it could be 2 x 230 pounders or 3 x 222 pounders.)
 
So for every one of me, they're assuming one 255 pounder. :eek2:
(Yes, I know it could be 2 x 230 pounders or 3 x 222 pounders.)

Depends on the final number the airline uses. They use summer numbers and winter numbers.

Someone noted one airline uses 204 for males and children at 99. Let’s assume they use 180 for females.

If there are 20 males, that’s 4080 pounds. 5 children will be 495 pounds and 10 females will be 1800 for a total of 6375.
 
Being pulled off a flight typically deals with the type ticket purchased or volunteers to get a cash voucher.

Also loyalty program status. As a high level FF in several programs, I have never been bumped off a flight. Bumped up in class, yes. :)
 
Just before boarding, maintenance fixed the seats and the two bumped passengers were allowed to board and made $600 in the process.
Unlikely that they kept the compensation. The way to process usually works is that they solicit volunteers willing to give up their seat for the agreed upon compensation but those volunteers become standbys. They are only removed if the airline ends up needing their seats. If they are bumped, the compensation is awarded and they are rebooked.

Aren't Airlines prohibited from overbooking flights now?
No. Overbooking is still common, though it is far fewer than most might assume. A flight might allow one or two over capacity but it is not normally much more than that. Sometimes economy will be overbooked significantly but first class/business is then restricted by the same number so that the overall flight is not overbooked.

It is important to understand the distinction between overbooked and oversold. Oversold is when there are more passengers at the gate than the plane has seats. This can happen due to overbooking, or because a seat(s) is broken, or a must-ride crewmember or mechanic is put onboard, or another flight cancelled, etc.

Do those numbers include the assumed weight of carry-ons?
Yes, but it's more complicated than just "yes".

The personal item is always included in the passenger standard weight. On the smallest airplanes, some operators choose to structure their carry-on program to disallow the larger carry-on bag in the cabin. This results in a lower standard passenger weight. In that case, the carry-ons that are valet gate checked then have their own standard weight applied.

On larger airplanes the weight of a personal item and a carry-on are included in the standard passenger weight.

Airliners are most frequently landing weight limited. Even on a short flight, they are weight restricted based on their landing weight limit at their destination. This means you can't generally have four or five hours of reserve fuel onboard if your flight is full, even if the airplane has the range to fly a five or six hour leg. It is rare to be limited by the airplanes structural takeoff limit weight.
 
Unlikely that they kept the compensation. The way to process usually works is that they solicit volunteers willing to give up their seat for the agreed upon compensation but those volunteers become standbys. They are only removed if the airline ends up needing their seats. If they are bumped, the compensation is awarded and they are rebooked.
That is what I would have expected, however, the gate agent was emphatic that they would get to keep the compensation in appreciation for stepping up to be put on standby. United (Skywest) out of IAH.
 
Is this still really a thing? Back when I was a frequent (airline) flyer in the aughts, I caught bumps ALL. THE. TIME. I remember calculating one year around 06 or 07 that I had secured over $10K in bump-related vouchers in one year. It seems far less common now. I have been back to flying the airlines 3-4x/month for about the past three years, and only one flight in all that time has asked for volunteers. Anecdotal, but still. Their pax management seems to have become much more sophisticated. Practically every hub-to-hub plane is at 90-100% capacity, but they never need to bump people.

On the topic of average pax weight.... yeah. The 204 lb average weight some of the regionals are using might need to be increased again. The obesity epidemic is real. The big metal can handle it I'm sure, but some of those RJs, idk.
 
I know it gets muddled in the regional ticketing/branding, but there is absolutely no such thing as an "Alaska" E170. We have 737s only. You're actually talking about QX or OO
 
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Now (for us) its: Adults = 204 lbs and kids = 99 lbs

OMG! Do those numbers include the assumed weight of carry-ons? I've seen carry-ons that easily weighed 50 pounds.
I was thinking along the same lines. There is huge variability there for something that needs to be ultimately calculated when you get down to it to the inch and to the pound.

I'm 75% of that number...but that's as God intended. A lot of folks are way way over that.

Add in clothes, shoes, keys, phone, laptop, a water bottle, and whatever other junk in their personal items. x a plane load of folks that could be a big number that seems to be largely an unknown

And I suppose now days they know ahead of time, a count of how many folks are bringing a carry-on. I'll bet there's an average weight they assume for that.

I suppose the airlines have probably done a statistical analysis with a large sample size to determine a reasonable average to use as an estimate.


I have wondered many times if newer transport aircraft have load cells in their landing gear so that they can for sure know what the weight and balance is when they close the doors. Seems like a no-brainer to just do that!
 
There may be planes with load cells of some sort, but I don't know of any. Cost, and more added to empty weight. I do remember 2 or so years ago, the company weighing crew members and their luggage to see if their average weights needed to be changed for basic operational empty weight.
 
I suppose the airlines have probably done a statistical analysis with a large sample size to determine a reasonable average to use as an estimate.

Yes, this is a requirement to be issued an OpSpec for Average Weights.
 
Now (for us) its: Adults = 204 lbs and kids = 99 lbs
Woo Hoo.!!!

I am now below average.!!

Does that include a carry-on bag and 1 personal item per person?


I once took the fam on a hot air balloon ride. Had to suffer the embarrassment of getting pulled out of line to get weighed because the didn't believe what I wrote down. They said I was 5 lbs heavier on their scales.
 
Does that include a carry-on bag and 1 personal item per person?
Let's not get too personal now....:lol:

They said I was 5 lbs heavier on their scales.
When I was flying passengers in Alaska, I got pretty good at guessing folks weight. But we were required to add 10 pounds per person for the W&B.
 
Airliners are most frequently landing weight limited. Even on a short flight, they are weight restricted based on their landing weight limit at their destination. This means you can't generally have four or five hours of reserve fuel onboard if your flight is full, even if the airplane has the range to fly a five or six hour leg. It is rare to be limited by the airplanes structural takeoff limit weight.

I thought most take off limits that affect passengers are due to heat with the associated reduced engine performance (single engine performance really). Is that correct?

Tim
 
Is this still really a thing? Back when I was a frequent (airline) flyer in the aughts, I caught bumps ALL. THE. TIME. I remember calculating one year around 06 or 07 that I had secured over $10K in bump-related vouchers in one year. It seems far less common now. I have been back to flying the airlines 3-4x/month for about the past three years, and only one flight in all that time has asked for volunteers. Anecdotal, but still. Their pax management seems to have become much more sophisticated. Practically every hub-to-hub plane is at 90-100% capacity, but they never need to bump people.

On the topic of average pax weight.... yeah. The 204 lb average weight some of the regionals are using might need to be increased again. The obesity epidemic is real. The big metal can handle it I'm sure, but some of those RJs, idk.

From business mags/shows it took the airlines a number of years to fix the programs to determine how many seats to oversell based on expected compensation costs; after the Feds significantly raised the cost to the airlines. Soon after the compensation rules into place, it was common for people to effectively make money on known routes that oversell. Now, it is much more rare.

No idea on the veracity, but I recall one pundit having un-named sources which claimed the companies now based on history for the individual airport, ticket class, time of day and many other factors including how much compensation they have to typically provide for that route to get someone to switch flights will alter how many additional seats they will oversell.

Tim
 
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