Plane hasn't flown much recently

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JOhnH

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I was looking for an old thread I remembered reading on this topic a few months ago, but I can't seem to find it.

I have a possibility of trading my plane for a Cessna 182 that due to the current owner's medical reasons, has only flown about 5 hours in the last year. How big a problem is that? What do I need to do to get a good idea of whether the engine is going to explode in midair or not? Bore scope, Compression Test, hone or replace cylinders? I'm pretty sure the guy didn't do anything special to preserve it, but it did just come out of annual and the mechanic said it is in good shape. Would a typical annual by a good mechanic turn up that kind of issue?
 
Go with a compression check,and bore scope. Not that expensive ,will give a sense of security
 
Not a problem.

Just do a prebuy like you would with any other plane.
 
JOhnH said:
I was looking for an old thread I remembered reading on this topic a few months ago, but I can't seem to find it.

I have a possibility of trading my plane for a Cessna 182 that due to the current owner's medical reasons, has only flown about 5 hours in the last year. How big a problem is that? What do I need to do to get a good idea of whether the engine is going to explode in midair or not? Bore scope, Compression Test, hone or replace cylinders? I'm pretty sure the guy didn't do anything special to preserve it, but it did just come out of annual and the mechanic said it is in good shape. Would a typical annual by a good mechanic turn up that kind of issue?
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Not a huge problem with a Continental, if it's local to you I would be more concerned if, or when the last, corrosion treatment was.
 
Where is it?

In the "sweaty work boot" environment of Florida?

Or the "stick your head in the oven" environment of Arizona?

I'm with Henning. If it's been a Florida plane then I would be just as concerned with airframe corrosion especially if it flew regularly until recently.
 
Yeah, I guess I should have mentioned that. It has been hangared on the South West Coast of Florida. I did a quick walk-around and I didn't see any signs of corrosion. This is one of those "former FBI" planes. Lots of hours but great maintenance, up until this guy bought it about two years ago.
 
JOhnH said:
Yeah, I guess I should have mentioned that. It has been hangared on the South West Coast of Florida. I did a quick walk-around and I didn't see any signs of corrosion. This is one of those "former FBI" planes. Lots of hours but great maintenance, up until this guy bought it about two years ago.
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For a good price it should be a good value, the FBI takes care of their planes and typically equips them very nicely.
 
Here is more information on the plane I am looking at.
I'm going to have to do a lot of research on all the Bendix-King stuff as I'm not familiar with it. I have always been exposed to Garmin and JPI.

I'd appreciate comments, either specific to items listed or just a summary judgement.



1981 Cessna R182RG

Total Time Airframe: 7769

Engine TTOH: 1325 (2200 hour TBO)


Avionics:Dual Bendix King KMA-24H Audio Panels PILOT-COPILOT
Dual Bendix King KY-196 Digital flip/flop 760 Channel Com
Bendix King KI-204 Glide Slope Indicator
Bendix King KLN94B COLOR IFR/MM GPS FULLY COUPLED
Bendix King KNS-81 RNAV, VOR/ILS-COUPLED HSI/AP
Bendix King KN-53 Nav Receiver w/Glide Slope
Bendix King KR-87 Digital ADF with slaved KI229 indicator
Bendix King KA-44B ADF Antenna
Bendix King KI-229 RMI slaved HSI, NAV 1&2, ADF
Bendix King KT-76A Transponder with Mode C
Bendix King KN-63 Digital DME Receiver
Bendix King KDI-572 DME Indicator-COUPLED BOTH NAVS
Bendix King KR-22 Marker Beacon Receiver (Remote Mounted)
Bendix King KCS-55A Slaved HSI
Bendix King KA-118 Demodulator
Bendix King KFC-200 Flight Control System w/Flight Director-fully coupled
Bendix King KA-144 Servo Regulator
Bendix King KEA-129 Encoding Altimeter
Bendix King 5934PA-1 Standby Altimeter
Skywatch SKY899 Active traffic system
WX-1000E EFIS System storm scope, coupled GPS, Gyro Slaving to HSI
GEM-603 Insight Graphic Engine Monitor System
Shadin Mini-flow Fuel System
Davtron Digital Clock
Avionics Cooling Fan
Avionics master switch
Here's the Vref numbers from AOPA.


12-Oct-2014.
1981 - CESSNA SKYLANE RG/TRBO TR/R182
$92,125.47 (as configured)​
Trade-in value will be considerably less
due to dealer marketing costs, margins and inventory expenses.
Price assumes complete logs, no damage, and all inspections complied.​
Model Base Retail Serial No. R182 $86,000.00 1629-1798

Airframe Total Time and Engine Time Since Major Overhaul: Note: Numbers in parenthesis are negative values. AFTT: 7769. Effect on valuation=($13,074.53) at $3.16/hour. SMOH Engine #1: 1325. Effect on valuation=($5,200.00) at $16.00/hour.
Basic Equipment: Dual digital navcoms, 1000 SMOH, 7 P&I, 2-ax AP, GS, NDH, ADF, DME.
Additions/Modifications/Conversions: Item Retail Value
Other Typical Add-on Equipment (Installed): Category Item Retail Value ADF KR87 $0.00 AutoPilot/FD KCS55A HSI $3,500.00 AutoPilot/FD KFC200 $3,500.00 DME KN63 $0.00 Eng Monitor GEM Sgl $1,400.00 Stormscope WX1000E $6,000.00 Traffic & Xponder Skywatch $10,000.00
Approximate value for non-listed addons: $0.00
Description of non-listed addons: KLN 94 Color GPS 3,500

Engine Data: Item Description Power / TBO Lyc 235hp TBO 2000 Engine Model O-540-J3C5D/L3C5D
Fac. Reman. $43,643.00 Overhaul$31,000.00
 
Oy, it's very nicely equipped, for 15 years ago. The avionics actually have near no to potentially negative value. HSIs were the cat's meow and the RMI is nice and not cheap either, however they are mechanical instruments and require somewhat frequent repair. Thing is, the repairs easily meet or exceed the price of a new Aspen depending on what goes wrong. The KNS-81 is a VOR based R-Nav unit.
 
Henning said:
Oy, it's very nicely equipped, for 15 years ago. The avionics actually have near no to potentially negative value. HSIs were the cat's meow and the RMI is nice and not cheap either, however they are mechanical instruments and require somewhat frequent repair. Thing is, the repairs easily meet or exceed the price of a new Aspen depending on what goes wrong. The KNS-81 is a VOR based R-Nav unit.
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Thanks, That is pretty much what I thought.
And the owner has said a couple of times that the engine is 2200 TBO, but AFAIK, TBO is 2000. And I think it has more like 1600 hrs on it now, and it has been doing a lot of sitting lately. But I might still see how low I can get him to go.
 
So how much is he asking?

I don't see anything wrong with it, HSIs are still the golden standard, RMI overlays are nice, but the HSI is more than enough.

As long as everythig works and checks out, seems fine if that's the type of plane you want, only thing it doesn't have is a WAAS GPS, I don't recall the KLN being WAAS or the ability to upgrade it to WAAS.

How much is it? The 92k evaluation is ludacris, Id say if its in good shape mechanically and cosmetics wise, it's probably a 60-70k plane.
 
James331 said:
So how much is he asking?

I don't see anything wrong with it, HSIs are still the golden standard, RMI overlays are nice, but the HSI is more than enough.
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And, the KFC-200 autopilot is an excellent older autopilot system.
 
James331 said:
So how much is he asking?

I don't see anything wrong with it, HSIs are still the golden standard, RMI overlays are nice, but the HSI is more than enough.

As long as everythig works and checks out, seems fine if that's the type of plane you want, only thing it doesn't have is a WAAS GPS, I don't recall the KLN being WAAS or the ability to upgrade it to WAAS.

How much is it? The 92k evaluation is ludacris, Id say if its in good shape mechanically and cosmetics wise, it's probably a 60-70k plane.
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A mechanical HSI is Bronze Standard at this point, a SVT equipped glass panel is the Gold Standard.
 
Both give me all the info I need to do the job, I can shoot both all the way down, the whiz bang cool factor is nice, but doesn't add much for function.

Having your data replicated across 3 instruments is cool, but after a while it's just a distraction.

Case and point I can depict all sorts of data on my Sandel EHSI, but between my 530 and 430, it's just clutter so I tone them down a little.

Flying for work, I have one 530 with the map mode, other 530 with FPL, waypoints and near by airports on my EFIS, and radar on the MFD. Each one could display twice the amount of data, but it's not needed.
 
I haven't followed up on this yet. But I'm still considering it.
My thought is to offer a straight up trade for my (very nice and well equipped) 172 with a low time (425hrs) 180 hp engine.

I could upgrade the panel at any time.
But I'm still worried about the high-time engine in the 182, especially since it has not flown much in the past year.

Assuming there is residual damage from sitting up and infrequent use. How would that be manifested? Would it show up as increased oil use? Deteriorating compression values? Or might the first indication be a catastrophic in-flight failure. I have had one of those before and really don't want another.
 
JOhnH said:
I haven't followed up on this yet. But I'm still considering it.
My thought is to offer a straight up trade for my (very nice and well equipped) 172 with a low time (425hrs) 180 hp engine.

I could upgrade the panel at any time.
But I'm still worried about the high-time engine in the 182, especially since it has not flown much in the past year.

Assuming there is residual damage from sitting up and infrequent use. How would that be manifested? Would it show up as increased oil use? Deteriorating compression values? Or might the first indication be a catastrophic in-flight failure. I have had one of those before and really don't want another.
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Yes to both of the first two, not likely on the catastrophic failure. If it's going to do that, it won't be from the results of sitting a year.
 
Henning said:
Yes to both of the first two, not likely on the catastrophic failure. If it's going to do that, it won't be from the results of sitting a year.
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Oh jeez

So if my plane sits for a while in its hangar it just going to explode one of these days when I'm flying it?!

How about get a proper prebuy and maybe a annual too, proper use of a bore scope, leak down, oil analysis etc will do wonders.
 
James331 said:
Oh jeez

So if my plane sits for a while in its hangar it just going to explode one of these days when I'm flying it?!

How about get a proper prebuy and maybe a annual too, proper use of a bore scope, leak down, oil analysis etc will do wonders.
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:confused: Where did I say it did? I even said, "Not Likely". IF there is a problem, it would most likely manifest itself as, and be limited to, lower compression and some increased oil consumption. Compared to a Lycoming, the chances of having a cam problem are much lower, and the chances for something like a rusted up crankshaft to cause a bearing to spin and end in a catastrophic failure would be in the realm of statistical anomalies, especially after just a year or two sitting.
 
timwinters said:
Where is it?

In the "sweaty work boot" environment of Florida?

Or the "stick your head in the oven" environment of Arizona?

I'm with Henning. If it's been a Florida plane then I would be just as concerned with airframe corrosion especially if it flew regularly until recently.
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There was a very nice post recently about an engine that has set on the coast and he showed us what it looked like when opened it for overhaul. Yuck...
 
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No matter where it is, have a good pre-buy inspection done.

A year of sitting is not the end of the world, but have a mechanic get in and look for the big expensive buyer's remorse kind of problems.

I will highly recommend a borescope. Saved me from $20k mistake. Make sure it has good enough resolution to actually see what's going on in there. Surface pitting or deep corrosion? Can it detect spalling?
 
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( mentioned this before) The cessna 180 had set in humid maryland for over twenty years.( or more) Widow finally sold it to jump owner last fall for reported 40 grand. Oil drained, run, replenished, drained again. Filled again, bore scoped, prop replaced. Lots of new wiring. Checked carefully for structural problems. It had been in a hangar with concrete floor. Fired up, flown and now hauls jumpers. Runs well according to pilot. Not usual but one never knows. I asked about it many years ago but it was more than I could afford. He never flew it, just paid the rent year after year.
 
That's a pricy plane for jump ops.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Pricey? A cessna 180 in good flying condition for 40 grand? You gotta be kidding.
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Now you didn't mention it was 40k. What idiot sold it for 40k?

As for the vans and KAs, time per load, jumpers per load they are cash makers, the jet that Perris uses/used well there is a reason they ain't jumping it anymore.

For most ops a 182 is a way better front door style jumpship, and any 500hr dude can fly it. For what most 180s go for you can pick up a 206 which with its rear door is much better for tandems.
 
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