Plane crashes into homes in San Diego, Ca

Discussion in 'Aviation Mishaps' started by Bender Aviation, Oct 11, 2021.

  1. Hengelo

    Hengelo Pre-takeoff checklist

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  2. Albany Tom

    Albany Tom Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    Perdue has some good stuff. He did a bit on the battle of Midway from a more modern tactical perspective, and it was pretty interesting.

    There are a couple of people doing the 1970's weather format. Middle aged guy flying the plane, blonde girl in the short skirt along for the visual effect. I don't understand that one. If wanted to watch girls, I'd do that. If I wanted to watch mediocre airplane flying, I'd go through the list of symptoms of possible stroke.
     
  3. LesGawlik

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    I don't think the article is correct, but I haven't seen proof it is wrong.
     
  4. Mikey B

    Mikey B Pre-Flight

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    It's hard to prove a negative. I'd rather require him to prove it's true, since it goes against what the overwhelming majority of the medical and public health community says.

    But for starters, his willingness to believe (or just lie to his readers about) that "cockpit video" certainly calls his veracity into question.

    And IBTL.
     
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  5. Vincent Becker

    Vincent Becker Filing Flight Plan

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    Proving something wrong shouldn’t be a requirement, it should have to be proved to be correct. Especially with the connection he’s making that somehow a vaccine caused a plane crash.
     
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  6. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

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    I consider all of those guys entertainment, and no more. Because that's what they are. And I don't always trust the result of the official investigation, either.
     
  7. Hengelo

    Hengelo Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Proving the nonexistence of a thing is a logical impossibility.
     
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  8. Albany Tom

    Albany Tom Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    Absolutely true. But I'm probably not likely to hire someone who tells me their ancestors settled the United States from another planet, flown in by rocket ships shaped like DC-8's. :)
     
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  9. Flying Keys

    Flying Keys Pre-Flight

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    My CFI instructor taught me to have the student put their head down, close their eyes, and nod slowly throughout, which can induce a Coriolis illusion. Holy crap did it work on me.
     
  10. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Touchdown! Greaser!

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    “It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out.” - Carl Sagan
     
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  11. asicer

    asicer Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I don't remember exactly how I did it, but I think I purposely ignored my sense of balance, braced my elbow on the armrest and flew using finger pressure and mental timing. I'd bet that if the DPE had messed with the trim or gently nudged his yoke/rudder that it would have been enough to throw me off.
     
  12. LesGawlik

    LesGawlik Pre-takeoff checklist

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    So you're saying that the manufacturer of the vaccine could never show that there was no statistical correlation between taking the vaccine and adverse consequences? Good to know.
     
  13. SoCal 182 Driver

    SoCal 182 Driver Line Up and Wait

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    Don't start this...please. Not here, anyway.
     
  14. Albany Tom

    Albany Tom Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    From my RC flying days, with trainers or simple planes, if you lose orientation of the plane, let go of the stick. The plane will fly itself. So when I was asked to do the look down and fly the plane without looking, I just held the yoke with fingertip pressure and let the plane fly itself. There weren't any gusts, so that worked fine. Instructor had to induce a problem by taking control. It led me to believe that in an actual partial panel situation, that less is more. Over-control seems much more likely to cause a problem, to me, than under.
     
  15. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Alas, that quote is not original to Carl Sagan. In fact, he attributed it to space historian James Oberg. Sagan's actual quote: Keeping an open mind is a virtue—but, as the space engineer James Oberg once said, not so open that your brains fall out.

    However, the essentially the same quote goes back at least to 1937(Sagan was born in 1934, Oberg in 1944) where it was part of a commencement speech by Holyoke College professor Walter Kotschig. It however, is felt the at the saying had been floating around before he coined it as well.
     
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  16. Boundary Waters

    Boundary Waters Pre-takeoff checklist

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    It's easiest just to assume that EVERYTHING said by media talking heads is wildly inaccurate.
     
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  17. Boundary Waters

    Boundary Waters Pre-takeoff checklist

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    "What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun." -- Attributed to King David (1010–970 BC)
     
  18. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    This is how I approach the media. I took my first flying lesson 26 years ago. I have been employed as a pilot for 22 of those years. I consider myself to be, at the minimum, literate in aviation knowledge.

    I’m still waiting for a reporter to discuss anything Aviation related with even a hint of accuracy. Alas it never happens. Doesn’t matter what they are talking about it’s clearly misinformed, poorly written and misunderstood by who ever wrote the teleprompter script.

    My assumption when watching news about a topic without subject matter expertise is that the reporter is doing the same quality work as when aviation is the subject. Interestingly enough friends that are informed in other fields have confirmed the same observation when asked.

    Want me to laugh in your face during a conversation… quote a bobble head from a U.S. media company. They should all be treated as entertainers.
     
  19. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I think that approach runs the risk of throwing the baby out with the bath water. How about "trust, but verify"?
     
  20. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If you verify, you have to go to a source other than the “news” media. That’s just misinformation.
     
  21. Boundary Waters

    Boundary Waters Pre-takeoff checklist

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    As an engineer by profession, the media get about 8% correct with regards to stories I have subject matter knowledge in-- peripheria like what day it was and where it was located. Years ago I sent Wikipedia a documented correction of a misconception. The reply I got back was basically, "you might be correct, you have a Masters Degree in the subject and I do not, but my answer is easier to understand. So thanks, but no thanks."
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2021
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  22. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I have seen it happen. "Never say never."

    How about quoting subject-matter experts that they interview? Some of the media people who conduct such interviews do so without interrupting or arguing with them.
     
  23. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I don't think it's possible to reliably make that judgment without looking at the sources they're relying on.
     
  24. Boundary Waters

    Boundary Waters Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Totally disagree...

    Airplanes do not fall out of the sky when the engine quits. Guns don't shoot people without human beings manipulating their controls. Big hands do not come from the sky and smite people. Most humans look after their own interests-- but don't truly give a rats a** about anything else. Things engineers design with specific components (look at the HUGE paper trail on the M-16 rifle in Vietnam) where the assembler varies from the specifications cannot be assumed to perform as the test showed... These are facts, not fiction.

    What the media promulgates is PURE FICTION.

    Sure, it often corrolates with fact. But that is coincidence.

    While (as my stock broker says) past performance is not a guarantee. Where 92% of everything you have heard from "Dave"* is wildly inaccurate BS, what sane person puts credence in what Dave has to say?

    *Apologies to those named Dave, it was just the first name I came up with.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2021
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  25. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    OK, how about "distrust, but verify"?

    Making blanket assumptions about the truth or falsity of any media report is unlikely to have a reliable correlation with reality.
     
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  26. Boundary Waters

    Boundary Waters Pre-takeoff checklist

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    That's more like it. :) If it's important to me... Otherwise track record speaks... 92% BS.
     
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  27. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I must be the victim of misinformation.
     
  28. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I'm sure we all are, to some degree.

    People needs tools for sorting fact from fiction. I don't think saying that it's all fiction is going to help.
     
  29. luvflyin

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    That’s ok. Dave’s not here.

     
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  30. Boundary Waters

    Boundary Waters Pre-takeoff checklist

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    You have just made all members of the news media completely irrelevant.

    In my job if I must double check all of the numbers (facts) given to me by an associate, assistant, intern (been there, done that, got the tee shirt) then I am hindered, not helped, by having an associate, assistant, intern.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2021
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  31. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    As @Boundary Waters said, if you have to sort facts from fiction, the news media is irrelevant, which makes them a giant hole for sucking oxygen that can be better used elsewhere.
     
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  32. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    For the purpose of educating the public about aviation issues, better used where? Certainly there are more authoritative sources, but they generally don't reach a wide audience without the assistance of the media.

    In any case, I don't think there's any hope of stopping them from covering subjects of public interest.
     
  33. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If those sources don’t generally reach a wide audience, “verify” becomes irrelevant, regardless of whether “trust” or “distrust” is the basis.
     
  34. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    The media's ability to cover aviation, already a sensitive topic for many, is on the same level as a news headline saying "Patriots win Superbowl" and then put a picture of the Bruins holding the Stanley Cup. They carry that same general lack of vetting, truth, and intense misleading sensationalism in all their reporting

    Sadly.. there's no real way to hold the media accountable. If you express distrust in what they report you're automatically labeled. It's a vicious cycle.

    As far as reliable sources of aviation news and happenings, there are several, blancolirio for one, on YouTube, happens to be among the best. Maybe next time there's an accident CNN can invite Juan Brown on instead of reporting trash like this

    upload_2021-10-19_12-20-8.png
     
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  35. dreyna14

    dreyna14 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Gel-Mann amnesia is what you're referring to. I tend to disbelieve a good portion of things any media reports on.
     
  36. asicer

    asicer Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I think we're at about 2.5 turns, the aileron is still cranked over and nobody's stepped on the right rudder pedal yet.
     
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  37. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I had never heard of that before and enjoyed some reading on the subject. You are correct. It is exactly what I’m talking about and now I can quote a really smart person so it seems legitimate in conversation. Thank you.

    :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
     
  38. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I see what you did there.
     
  39. Daleandee

    Daleandee Pattern Altitude

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    Well .. let's get that throttle in some more ... :D
     
  40. mryan75

    mryan75 Cleared for Takeoff

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    I don't say this lightly, but this might literally be the dumbest thing I've ever read in my life. I find it hard to believe that a human being with the neurological capability of sustaining life unaided could actually put those words to paper with a straight face. Dan Gryder made this point while insisting about 5 times that he wasn't making this point. I sincerely hope this was posted to show how ridiculous some people can be, because this is patently absurd.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2021