Plane crash- not even sure what to say

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by jspilot, Apr 15, 2019 at 6:42 AM.

  1. jspilot

    jspilot Cleared for Takeoff

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  2. AKBill

    AKBill Pattern Altitude

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    What was the weather like?
     
  3. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If I computed the time right, pretty crappy. 1/4 mile in fog, 200 OVC or less at JFK and FRG both. LL windshear advisories too.


    I suspect when the press says "missed a runway" they were talking about a pilot executing a missed approach.

    Flight Aware track: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N5296H

    I have the JFK appaoch liveATC feed going now to see if I can catch them.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019 at 7:13 AM
  4. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach

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    Get-there-itis. I’m usually not the one to arm chair quarterback but no single engine plane had any business flying around yesterday. There were no good options to divert. Most airports were below CAT I mins.
     
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  5. alfadog

    alfadog En-Route

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    Wonder if the pilot was even instrument rated. In any event, sounds like a severe case of get-home-itis, with predicable results, given the weather.
     
  6. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach

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    Low IFR the whole day. 1/4 vis for most of the day. Surrounding airports were the same.
     
  7. alfadog

    alfadog En-Route

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    Glad everyone is OK, I am not a big fan of the "Darwin Awards" concept; I, for one, have done my share of stupid carp, glad I didn't have to die for it.
     
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  8. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    If they weren’t, they made it along time in those conditions without bending metal.
     
  9. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Accented but apparently reasonable radio discipline on the first missed from FRG. Tower is giving winds 220@10G15 most of the approach. Still trying to find it on the approach frequency.

    Found the handoff for the first approach here: http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kjfk/KJFK-NY-App-ROBER-Apr-15-2019-0100Z.mp3 about 9:40 in. Comes back from the missed at 15:00. Asks for another. Vectored around and handed off to tower again at 17:20. At 22:58 he comes back and Approach asks him if he has an alternate airport, but the pilot says "I think I can make it this time" and requests another. Handed off to tower at 28:00.

    Then in the 130Z file at 4:50, he asks for yet another. At this point, ATC asks how much fuel he has. The pilot replies he is unsure, but guesses that he's got a half an hour left. It's at this time he inquires about the ceilings at JFK. Approach gives RVR at JFK (pretty bad) and indefinite 300' ceiling. Told to expect ILS 22L.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019 at 8:57 AM
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  10. overdrive148

    overdrive148 En-Route

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    Story time? ;)
     
  11. mryan75

    mryan75 Line Up and Wait

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    Not sure what the average endurance of this particular aircraft is, but fuel exhaustion occurred on this flight at the 4:02 mark, and the previous flight was 3:38. Someone's got some 'splainin' to do.
     
  12. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Just checked the TAFs. Don't know what he was planning, the TAFs for JFK at the time of his departure predicted 200OVC and not expected to improve until 2AM (and even then not very much).
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019 at 9:06 AM
  13. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Accented but apparently reasonable radio discipline on the first missed from FRG. Tower is giving winds 220@10G15 most of the approach. Still trying to find it on the approach frequency.

    Found the handoff for the first approach here: http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kj...2019-0100Z.mp3 about 9:40 in. Comes back from the missed at 15:00. Asks for another. Vectored around and handed off to tower again at 17:20. At 22:58 he comes back and Approach asks him if he has an alternate airport, but the pilot says "I think I can make it this time" and requests another. Handed off to tower at 28:00.

    Then in the 130Z file at 4:50, he asks for yet another. At this point, ATC asks how much fuel he has. The pilot replies he is unsure, but guesses that he's got a half an hour left. It's at this time he inquires about the ceilings at JFK. Approach gives RVR at JFK (pretty bad) and indefinite 300' ceiling. Told to expect ILS 22L.

    At this point he's coming apart. Having hard times with altitudes and headings. Can't find the ATIS freq for JFK. The controller also volunteers the localizer frequency. "You're reversing course on me buddy. We got to figure something out here." Finally gets him on the localizer and hands him off to tower at 20:00.

    Approach pretty much clears out 22L at this point to accomodate him. He comes up in the 200Z file at 4:15 with a very panicked voice on the missed. Sounds very stressed after brought around for the next approach. Thinks has 15 minutes left. Approach brings in back around close in. Given to tower at 7:00 now.

    Apparently they lost the RVR for the other runway, so all the airline approaches were shutdown at this point.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019 at 9:46 AM
  14. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Full tanks gives you about 4.5hrs endurance.
     
  15. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    Actually his fuel planning probably met IFR minimums.

    The route was ~280 NM. A 172N with 3-180 lb passengers is at gross with 40 gallons of fuel. Cessna says 40 gallons of fuel @ 8000 ft yields an endurance of 4:06.

    Subtract fuel for the plane not making published TAS, less than perfect leaning, winds greater than forecast, vectors, more missed approaches than planned, failure to monitor fuel, and things go to crap pretty quickly.
     
  16. mryan75

    mryan75 Line Up and Wait

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    "About" being the operative word here. :)

    I didn't look at the time until he first went missed, but assuming the fuel burn and endurance is about the same as my Cherokee (both 160 hp), you'd be insane to try and fly from Niagara Falls to Farmingdale hard IFR in this plane. It's 296 nm direct. The route he filed was 324 nm and a duration of 3:30.
     
  17. mryan75

    mryan75 Line Up and Wait

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    https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N5296H

    Took off at 5:12, crash is reported to have happened at like 10:15. Went missed 5 times. These planes are actually pretty amazing. They really give you a chance.
     
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  18. FlySince9

    FlySince9 En-Route

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    ballsy...

    Wonder what he had on board to navigate the hole in that squall-line he flew thru...
     
  19. jspilot

    jspilot Cleared for Takeoff

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    Yeah the weather was bad around here but why take off in the first place-- honestly very interested to find out what happens to this pilot! He showed tremendously poor judgement in so many ways. He's very lucky to be alive.
     
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  20. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    He nearly 3 1/2 hours into the flight before he got to COL to enter the NY terminal area. TEB was 1600 OVC at that point.

    Fuel=options in IFR.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019 at 10:08 AM
  21. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach

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    It was Sunday. He had to get back for work.
     
  22. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Wow.... one foot from hitting the ground. So can he log it as a takeoff and landing, or just one takeoff no landing.???
     
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  23. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach

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    Do you have the link to this one?

    edit: and this one ...the 200Z file at 4:15...
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019 at 10:51 AM
  24. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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  25. jspilot

    jspilot Cleared for Takeoff

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    I mean why, even take off in the morning! It was foggy beyond belief here on Long Island and I could barely see 150 feet in front of me when I was driving a car early Sunday morning! It's a minor miracle the guy even got up there in the first place!
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019 at 11:25 AM
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  26. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach

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  27. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    These circumstances, trim it for a decent rate, stay on centerline and you get a slightly bumpy landing on a giant runway.

    My Instrument instructor made me do a couple of blind ones because, said he, "You never know when it could turn on you bad. Better to crash on a runway."
     
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  28. Dave Theisen

    Dave Theisen En-Route PoA Supporter

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    If you never hit the ground, can you really call it a crash? :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019 at 4:51 PM
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  29. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yep, "I may bend your precious airplane, but I'll get it down."
     
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  30. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach

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    Yea, I live 10 minutes away from FRG. It wasn’t pretty yesterday.
     
  31. TommyG

    TommyG Cleared for Takeoff

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    He never should have left from his departure airport. At 1700 they were calling 200 1/4 or less. So they took off leaving themselves little options except to divert to some place further than JFK. That was poor planning on thier part. But that flight school has a notoriously bad reputation on the field.
     
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  32. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Wonder what he did for a pre flight ,on the weather and conditions en route. Might have asked if any airports in the area had marginal VFR ,after first missed.
     
  33. alfadog

    alfadog En-Route

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    Hey, the pax made their flight back to Korea so no worries :)
     
  34. alfadog

    alfadog En-Route

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    Same Dongil Kim??

    Certificate: COMMERCIAL PILOT
    Date of Issue: 4/27/2013

    Ratings:
    COMMERCIAL PILOT
    AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND
    INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE
    PRIVATE PRIVILEGES
    AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
    AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE SEA

    Type Ratings:
    C/B-737

    Limits:
    ENGLISH PROFICIENT.
    THE B-737 IS SUBJECT TO PILOT-IN-COMMAND LIMITATION(S).
     
  35. sarangan

    sarangan Pre-takeoff checklist

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    That's a long way to go in a 172 without fuel stops.
     
  36. Chicago Bearhawk

    Chicago Bearhawk Filing Flight Plan

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    Looks like he was a B-737 pilot from Korea...
    From Airman's DB
    I removed the name and address to protect the innocent... or guilty as it may be...
    And based on the fact that he was listed as 26 years old (2019 - 2013) means he was most likely 19 or 20 when he got the commercial cert.

    Name ********
    Adress: *********
    Country: REPUBLIC OF KOREA
    Medical Information:
    Medical Class: Second Medical Date: 8/2011
    BasicMed Course Date: None BasicMed CMEC Date: None
    Certificates
    COMMERCIAL PILOT
    Certificates Description

    Certificate: COMMERCIAL PILOT
    Date of Issue: 4/27/2013

    Ratings:
    COMMERCIAL PILOT
    AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND
    INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE
    PRIVATE PRIVILEGES
    AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
    AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE SEA

    Type Ratings:
    C/B-737


    Limits:
    ENGLISH PROFICIENT.
    THE B-737 IS SUBJECT TO PILOT-IN-COMMAND LIMITATION(S).
     
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  37. mryan75

    mryan75 Line Up and Wait

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    Second class from 2011?
     
  38. redtail

    redtail En-Route

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    I went to bed last night right around the time this guy ran out of fuel (~10pm). It was foggy outside. This happened about a half mile from my house! I just left the crash site a few minutes ago, after speaking to a well known Eyewitness News (chn-7) reporter. According to him, the PIC is a "Commercial Rated pilot who flies a 737". I find that very hard to take on face value. He asked several basic questions about the Skyhawk, it's instrumentation, if it was equipped with GPS, etc. Then he asked if I could share a cockpit picture that he could use. The only one that I had on my phone that didn't show anything personal (including my face) was my avatar pic. I let him know that the downed plane may or may not have the same layout. We talked a bit and he wanted to interview me on TV, but I declined.

    Update: Just saw my picture on the 5 o'clock news story. Wife was pretty excited:D.
    However, she's baffled that a pilot of his credentials could screw up so bad.


    IMG_5161.JPG IMG_5160.JPG IMG_5156.JPG
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019 at 6:45 PM
  39. N1120A

    N1120A Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Huge amount of Getthereitis. Was there anywhere that he could have landed with like 500' ceilings?

    He looks thoroughly rated.

    Did fuel exhaustion occur?

    Sounds like that was during his US training, and his current medical is probably in Korea. Perhaps he has a piggy back that hasn't shown up yet?
     
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  40. redtail

    redtail En-Route

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    Well I guess Eyewitness News did their research. Damn :eek:.
    Unbelievable!
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019 at 3:30 PM