Plane crash at my home airport today

steingar said:
...

Of course now I fly a Cherokee, which still doesn't really need flaps. That said I deploy them, since it's just a Johnson bar which is far less likely to break than electric motors.
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It's all fun and games until your prosthetic arm comes off ... :eek:
 
steingar said:
I never put down the flaps to preflight my 150 when I had it. My reasoning:

a. Wasn't necessary. The thing landed just fine without them. If they failed to deploy on landing it would be a non event

b. if they stayed down for the takeoff roll I could die

c. they could come down and refuse to come back up. I've seen it happen.

Of course now I fly a Cherokee, which still doesn't really need flaps. That said I deploy them, since it's just a Johnson bar which is far less likely to break than electric motors.
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That.

Now if I've never been in that plane before I'll drop the all the way on the preflight, but for a Cessna I'm familiar with its just not warranted.
 
docmirror said:
What makes deploying the flaps prior to flight insure it won't stick, or half deploy in the air? All you can say from that test is that they worked at the time they were tested.
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True. Same can be said for checking oil, tires etc. At least i have made sure the linkages are present, the rollers and tracks are binding or missing.

It seems we probably loose more pilots to taking off with full flaps than we loose from flap deployment issues. But maybe we don't here about the flap deployment crashes because people realize there is an issues in preflight and scrub the flight.

Just another reminder to check the Johnson bar or cessna flap switch prior to pushing the throttle in.

Dan
 
After pre flight and before run up I do the control check (verifying the surfaces visually).
If I forget to bring the flaps up after engine start, there is no way I'm going to miss the big flap hanging on the side when I turn to look at the ailerons move. Ask me how I know...
This is of course in a high wing, but we were talking Cessnas.

So if I take off with flaps down after pre flight, I also forgot the control check, and it's probably my time to go.

Forgetting them during a touch and go, or on takeoff after a landing and taxi back seems much more likely.
 
ChemGuy said:
Just another reminder to check the Johnson bar or cessna flap switch prior to pushing the throttle in.
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No. The flaps are where they are, not where the control says they should be.

It is beyond easy to see high wing Cessna flaps. Look.

Especially, try figuring out where the flaps are by looking at a 172M switch. It looks the same at 0 or 40 deg.
 
MAKG1 said:
Especially, try figuring out where the flaps are by looking at a 172M switch. It looks the same at 0 or 40 deg.
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This.
Flew a 172M for first time at KJZI this past week while visiting James Island on vaca ..was weird getting used to the flap switch.

My thoughts go out to both families involved. It's truly tragic.

-M

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Was out at the airport today. Didn't here anything else out the accident whether factual or not. Everybody was talking about anything but the crash. I saw the wreckage in the distance. It supposed to be there until probably Tuesday. I was there to take my written at the school the CFI was a part of today.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
So if one does accidentally take off with those giant barn doors hanging down off the wings, what is the "proper" procedure?

My thoughts would be as follows:
1. Oh crap.
2. Airspeed.
3. Retract a little bit
4. Airspeed.
5. Retract a little bit more.
6. Airspeed
7. Eventually you get back to what would be configured for a short field takeoff.
8. Continue as if it was a short field take off for flap retract and airspeed.
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If you've ever done a full fla go around in a C-150, that is exactly what to do.
I'd have to dig out my old 1974 C-150 manual, but I believe the go around calls for flaps 20, then climb and milk off the rest of the flaps when obstacles are cleared.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
So if one does accidentally take off with those giant barn doors hanging down off the wings, what is the "proper" procedure?

My thoughts would be as follows:
1. Oh crap.
2. Airspeed.
3. Retract a little bit
4. Airspeed.
5. Retract a little bit more.
6. Airspeed
7. Eventually you get back to what would be configured for a short field takeoff.
8. Continue as if it was a short field take off for flap retract and airspeed.
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If you have REALLY DONE your takeoff distance numbers, and landing distance numbers, and you KNOW you have sufficient remaining runway remaining when you lift off too soon and notice they're down...

Just pull the throttle and LAND. Normally. Full flap.

I don't know how if you're using the factory 152 checklist you don't SEE the flaps hanging down at "Flight Controls Free and Correct".

This was a 3700' runway so the option I note may or may not have been available. Only the PIC who did the numbers PRIOR to getting in the airplane will ever know.
 
denverpilot said:
I don't know how if you're using the factory 152 checklist you don't SEE the flaps hanging down at "Flight Controls Free and Correct".
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:yeahthat:

I don't know how you could miss the flaps when your doing a control check on a 150:dunno:
 
James331 said:
That's not good

Wouldn't the school at least take a look at his tickets before hiring him? Everyplace I've worked, at the very least, made photocopies of my pilot cert, CFI, GI, and medical.
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Yeah I can't imagine too many good things are going to happen to the school because of this.
 
Was the "instructor" renting independently or was he working through the school?
 
"Flight control continuity was confirmed for all control surfaces from the cockpit. The wing flaps remained attached to their respective wings and the flap actuator jack screw position was consistent with a flaps retracted setting."

Huh?
 
I believe they hit full retract which contributed to the stall and nose dive.
 
As far as I know Henning, this was a hired CFI working through the school. Only there for about 2 weeks before the accident.
 
Well I would say that is not going to end well for the school's management. I foresee a beating coming from the government and families.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
Well I would say that is not going to end well for the school's management. I foresee a beating coming from the government and families.
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They've been extremely quiet to reporters. They did start advertising on the radio the week after the accident.
 
48dodge said:
They've been extremely quiet to reporters. They did start advertising on the radio the week after the accident.
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WORKPLACE SAFETY IS IMPORTANT, HELP US BY FLYING SAFELY!

THIS FLIGHT SCHOOL HAS NOT HAD A FATAL ACCIDENT IN: __7__ DAYS.

:(
 
Flaps should be safety wired to the up position on a Cessna 150/2. They never do you any good.

I can just hear hennings and his minions howling in the background. "Oh, the Humanity!" All that extra energy will kill you, when in actuality, the above 150/flap accident scenario has killed scores of people.
 
By that logic, the fuel mix should be safety wired to off. Since if you flood the engine on a hot start, it could catch on fire and kill you. I'm not a Henning Minion. I just believe in people being responsible for their own actions, not at the expense of everyone else.
 
It is similar to the Payne Stewart Lear accident scenario.

After his LearJet accident, the FAA issued an AD to safety wire the oxygen valve to the "ON" position.
 
kgruber said:
Flaps should be safety wired to the up position on a Cessna 150/2. They never do you any good.



I can just hear hennings and his minions howling in the background. "Oh, the Humanity!" All that extra energy will kill you, when in actuality, the above 150/flap accident scenario has killed scores of people.
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Pretty hard to teach short field landings to students with the flaps selector wired up.





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BG305 said:
I don't know how you could miss the flaps when your doing a control check on a 150:dunno:
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On maybe my 2nd or 3rd dual in a 152 (Previously only flew 172s) I took off with full flaps down. This was immediately after a touch and go and I just 'forgot' to hit the switch even though I said aloud "Carb heat off, flaps up, Full throttle".

The plane felt sluggish and I knew something wasn't right, about 100 ft up I realized it was the flaps and rushing to do it I put full flaps up. Knowing right that second wasn't the best idea and the plane dipped probably 50 feet but I kept the nose straight to help build up speed.

This could of very easily gone another way if I hadn't had some speed when I did the flaps and if I still hadn't been over the runway... or if I didn't give enough back pressure to keep the nose from shooting down.
 
I recently made a new checklist for our 150G, since it basically didn't have one of any use when we bought it. I put "Flaps UP" on it at three times in various phases before taking the runway. It's in the after-start, the control check, and taking runway. I did the same thing with the fuel valve, even though it is stuck on.
 
Swampfox201 said:
Pretty hard to teach short field landings to students with the flaps selector wired up.





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I learned them in a plane that didn't even have flaps.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
I recently made a new checklist for our 150G, since it basically didn't have one of any use when we bought it. I put "Flaps UP" on it at three times in various phases before taking the runway. It's in the after-start, the control check, and taking runway. I did the same thing with the fuel valve, even though it is stuck on.
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I know everyone at KLRO, myself included, has been quadruple checking flaps before taking the runway.
 
I've taken off with 40 degrees flaps short field numerous times. You pop off into ground effect.

I don't get it.

Electric flaps shouldn't dump you onto the pavement like that ... obviously the 150 and 180 are worlds apart ... :dunno:
 
txflyer said:
I've taken off with 40 degrees flaps short field numerous times. You pop off into ground effect.

I don't get it.

Electric flaps shouldn't dump you onto the pavement like that ... obviously the 150 and 180 are worlds apart ... :dunno:
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The 150 will also fly out with flaps 40, at least solo.
 
kgruber said:
How did they ever manage in a Taylorcraft, Champ or Cessna 120?
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Those aren't Cessna 150/152s.

I see what you are saying and you're right in that mismanagement of flaps has killed people and it's possible/downright easy to fly a Cessna 150 without flaps. However if you fly in a Cessna 150/152 for your ppl check ride and the DPE says "show me a short field landing over a 50ft obstacle and you don't use flaps you will fail. If a student can't be trusted to use flaps maybe the gear handle in their complex airplane should be wired down also.




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The flaps are there to learn procedure as much as anything else.
 
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