Plane circling over the gulf of Mexico

redtail said:
That's true. Sorry for the thread hop to the Payne Stewart crash BUT...With two professional pilots flying and neither one of them can manage to don the mask in time before blacking out, tells me that something is fundamentally flawed with the FAA rules! Maybe the altitude requirements are set too high! Or am I just missing something? I'm in no way judging the crew (I'm in no position to), I'm just trying to learn this stuff:). and I have a LOT to learn:lol:


From wiki:

"NTSB investigators concluded that the plane suffered a loss of cabin pressure and that all on board died of hypoxia. A delay of only a few seconds in donning oxygen masks, coupled with cognitive and motor skill impairment, could have been enough to result in the pilots' incapacitation"
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There was an issue with the O2 system. Even if they got the masks on it wouldn't have made a difference.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
It surprises me to see that he filed for FL270, which is not a good altitude for, well, any piston twin I've seen. We'll ignore the altitude considerations, the plane just won't like it. Looking at the winds, it looks like that was the only altitude to get anything resembling a tailwind. Perhaps the intention was to stay up that high for that reason, and avoid having to go via the land route and make an extra stop.

Personally, I'd stick to following the coast in that plane. More options.

Sadly, we probably will never know what happened.
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I went down Q100 the night before. There was a good tailwind. I think we had a little over 60kts quartering tailwind.
 
The nomenclature is different for these tanks (locker vs aux) as is the function. None of them are plumbed into the fuel system that supplies fuel to the engines. When the main tank(s) fuel levels are sufficiently depleted, fuel can be pumped from the locker tanks to the on-side main tank.

These tanks
LearDriver said:
Yes, How many depended on which A/C system you had..
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pericynthion said:
Never having flown a pressurized aircraft - do they seriously not have a big loud alarm that goes off when cabin altitude rises above 10k ft? If not, how do the designers sleep at night?
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Better yet, add a module so that if the cabin altitude goes above 12,000(?) feet the autopilot altitude hold gets set to 9000(?) feet. Add a bypass that detects if the pilot is on oxygen and it's working (with an oximeter.)
 
Many airplanes are built with auto-descent modes. If cabin altitude exceeds a predetermined value, the throttle-snatch reduces power to flight idle and the autopilot initiates an emergency descent to a breathable altitude, normally ~15k'.

Unfortunately, not all of the airplanes are equipped with a throttle advance capability when the descent is complete, so those aboard have reason to hope that one of the pilots (or somebody) is awake.

mikea said:
Better yet, add a module so that if the cabin altitude goes above 12,000(?) feet the autopilot altitude hold gets set to 9000(?) feet. Add a bypass that detects if the pilot is on oxygen and it's working (with an oximeter.)
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mikea said:
Better yet, add a module so that if the cabin altitude goes above 12,000(?) feet the autopilot altitude hold gets set to 9000(?) feet. Add a bypass that detects if the pilot is on oxygen and it's working (with an oximeter.)
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In some parts of the country, that could result in autopilot-controlled flight into terrain.
 
Any plane with an 'auto descent' feature would also have GPWS. It would be vary easy to make the plane go to 10K or a suitable altitude.
 
wabower said:
Many airplanes are built with auto-descent modes. If cabin altitude exceeds a predetermined value, the throttle-snatch reduces power to flight idle and the autopilot initiates an emergency descent to a breathable altitude, normally ~15k'.

Unfortunately, not all of the airplanes are equipped with a throttle advance capability when the descent is complete, so those aboard have reason to hope that one of the pilots (or somebody) is awake.
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This is exactly where my thoughts were heading until it hit me.....what about terrain! An auto descent into a mountain would be just as deadly:yikes:
 
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I think 15k' clears most of the peaks in Conus. If not, it's just not your day, cupcake.

redtail said:
This is exactly where my thoughts were heading until it hit me.....what about terrain! An auto decent into a mountain would be just as deadly:yikes:
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Henning said:
They could have staged helos in range. In fact, there were likely commercial operators in the region. Thing is, that all costs money and puts known live pilots at risk. This was not a rescue at this point, it was a recovery. You don't risk the living unreasonably to recover the dead, not unless their family wants to pay for it.
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Well unless your last name is Kennedy then they don't care how much they spend for a RECOVERY mission.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Over 50 fourteeners in CO!
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Imagine the seas rose 15,000 feet. Flying around on a clear day at FL430 you would look down and see nothing but water except maybe some VERY small islands over the Rockies. If you turned off both engines and glided down what are the odds you'd miss the water and hit an island anywhere in the world?

Like Wayne said, if you do then it's not your day cupcake.
 
AdamZ said:
Well unless your last name is Kennedy then they don't care how much they spend for a RECOVERY mission.
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Sigh... why didn't he turn on the A/P? :dunno: Why didn't she?:confused:

'Karma is a stone cold *****', that's all I can see in that legacy.
 
wabower said:
Would 15k' clear any of them?
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Yup..... On a calm day with ridgetop winds very light.....Add 25 kts to the air flowing over the peaks and there is a good chance you will become part of the granite... In a very ugly way..:eek:
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Over 50 fourteeners in CO!
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They're fourteeners, not fifteeners. :D

So you might get close to a mountain. You'd better be awake by 15,000' anyway because the airplane will not automatically advance power to keep you level without stalling, at least not the one I fly. That one doesn't have a snatcher or autothrottles to bring the power to idle for the emergency descent. It also won't extend the speedbrakes. The pilot needs to do at least that much themselves. Of course that's better than no emergency descent mode at all.
 
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If you turned off both engines and glided down what are the odds you'd miss the water and hit an island anywhere in the world? Like Wayne said, if you do then it's not your day cupcake.
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Never heard of Cupcake, but very familiar with a guy named Murphy!
 
Everskyward said:
They're fourteeners, not fifteeners. :D

So you might get close to a mountain. You'd better be awake by 15,000' anyway because the airplane will not automatically advance power to keep you level without stalling, at least not the one I fly. That one doesn't have a snatcher or autothrottles to bring the power to idle for the emergency descent. It also won't extend the speedbrakes. The pilot needs to do at least that much themselves. Of course that's better than no emergency descent mode at all.
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You need to find a better ride;)
 
Everskyward said:
The previous airplanes I flew were on the trailing edge of technology so anything is an improvement. :rofl:
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My planes were manufactured in 1943 and 1960. How's that for low tech?
 
Everskyward said:
Depends what you have added to them. ;)
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It's the old Ship of Theseus problem. Theseus leaves the dock, comes back later and gets a few repairs done. Leaves, comes back, more repairs. After a little while there isn't a single original piece left on-board. Is it still the same ship? =)
 
Apache123 said:
It's the old Ship of Theseus problem. Theseus leaves the dock, comes back later and gets a few repairs done. Leaves, comes back, more repairs. After a little while there isn't a single original piece left on-board. Is it still the same ship? =)
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I've got the same boat!:mad2::rolleyes:
 
N747JB said:
I've got the same boat!:mad2::rolleyes:
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The trick is to build your own boat... Then when you take it back to the manufacturer, you get to talk to yourself... Unfortunately that leads to having to take those pesky mental health pills again..:goofy::goofy::D
 
wabower said:
Many airplanes are built with auto-descent modes. If cabin altitude exceeds a predetermined value, the throttle-snatch reduces power to flight idle and the autopilot initiates an emergency descent to a breathable altitude, normally ~15k'.

Unfortunately, not all of the airplanes are equipped with a throttle advance capability when the descent is complete, so those aboard have reason to hope that one of the pilots (or somebody) is awake.
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Which airplanes have this option?
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Which airplanes have this option?
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G-550 have Automatic Emergency Descent Module (EDM) standard equipment. In fact, an auto descent system is required above FL450 I think. Could be off on that...
 
Captain said:
G-550 have Automatic Emergency Descent Module (EDM) standard equipment. In fact, an auto descent system is required above FL450 I think. Could be off on that...
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The question wasn't which airplanes have the emergency descent system. The question was which airplanes will advance the throttles for you when the airplane levels off at the bottom of the descent.
 
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