Pizza question...

The proper, classic way to eat pizza:


ny03-pizza1.jpg


-Rich
 
EppyGA said:
You can touch everything but the crust.
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And I've been known to make me a "pizza salad" at the buffet. Get a plate of greens and a few slices of combination pizza, and scrape the toppings off on to the salad!
 
Anybody make their own pizza. I tried to make my own crust last week and the yeast in the recipe made it rise higher than I like. I may have just used too muich dough for the size pan I have, but does everyone use yeast for their pizza dough. If I skip the yeast, will it just be unleavened bread-like? Its not Passover, so I can add yeast and not have to worry. :wink2:
 
Don't let the dough rest as long. I made some and let the dough rest for like an hour. That was some thick crust. Next time, 10-15 minutes, and much thinner.
 
Thanks Ed. I also used quick rising yeast. Maybe I'll get the regular stuff and put it right in the oven.
 
Anthony said:
Anybody make their own pizza. I tried to make my own crust last week and the yeast in the recipe made it rise higher than I like. I may have just used too muich dough for the size pan I have, but does everyone use yeast for their pizza dough. If I skip the yeast, will it just be unleavened bread-like? Its not Passover, so I can add yeast and not have to worry. :wink2:
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If you want thin crust, here are some more suggestions.

The easiest way is to bake the pizza as quickly as possible after punching down the dough, forming the crust, and applying the toppings. Also, the oven should be at ~500 degrees to quickly kill the yeast and thus end the fermentation (and the rise).

The problem with this method is that it doesn't give the gluten strands sufficient time to realign, which can cause poor dough structure (cheese and sauce dripping through holes in the crust). It helps if you autolyse the dough, which basically just means inserting a rest period right after the flour and water are mixed, before the yeast and other ingredients are added.

You also could try using a lower-protein flour. Flour marked "Best for Bread" may not be best for thin pizza because it has a higher protein content and will rise more.

I've been playing with whole-wheat pizza lately, in fact, which you may want to consider if you like thin crust. Whole wheat flour has lower protein levels and tends to rise less. The bran also interferes with the gluten strand alignment, which makes autolysing a good idea here, too.

You might also want to tweak the sugar / salt ratio a bit on the salt side. (Sugar feeds, salt retards.)

You actually can skip the yeast if you want, but the result will be less-than-enjoyable by most standards. Fermentation imparts flavor, not just gas bubbles. The crust isn't just a substrate for the toppings, you know. It should be enjoyable in its own right.

-Rich
 
Thanks Rich. I'll do a little experimenting along the lines you suggest.
 
RJM62 said:
If you want thin crust, here are some more suggestions.

The easiest way is to bake the pizza as quickly as possible after punching down the dough, forming the crust, and applying the toppings. Also, the oven should be at ~500 degrees to quickly kill the yeast and thus end the fermentation (and the rise).

The problem with this method is that it doesn't give the gluten strands sufficient time to realign, which can cause poor dough structure (cheese and sauce dripping through holes in the crust). It helps if you autolyse the dough, which basically just means inserting a rest period right after the flour and water are mixed, before the yeast and other ingredients are added.

You also could try using a lower-protein flour. Flour marked "Best for Bread" may not be best for thin pizza because it has a higher protein content and will rise more.

I've been playing with whole-wheat pizza lately, in fact, which you may want to consider if you like thin crust. Whole wheat flour has lower protein levels and tends to rise less. The bran also interferes with the gluten strand alignment, which makes autolysing a good idea here, too.

You might also want to tweak the sugar / salt ratio a bit on the salt side. (Sugar feeds, salt retards.)

You actually can skip the yeast if you want, but the result will be less-than-enjoyable by most standards. Fermentation imparts flavor, not just gas bubbles. The crust isn't just a substrate for the toppings, you know. It should be enjoyable in its own right.

-Rich
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Rich -- we used to get "High Gluten Flour" and it worked well except we never had an oven at home which could reach the requisite 700 degrees F.

I tried it on the grill once on a stone -- worked well, but the stone cracked.

My theory (as to why home made pizza isn't ever as good) is the dramatic temperature drop in the home variety oven when the pizza is put in. While the box is warming back up the ingredients aren't cooking -- thus the somewhat gloopy mess.

Real pizza ovens have high mass and high temperatures -- there is little temperature drop when the uncooked pizza is put in -- the cooking happens immediately, providing a searing effect on the outside of the bread and the cheese.

Coal ovens are best because of the very high temperatures that can be sustained (over 1000 F)

Whaddya dink 'bout dat?
 
dmccormack said:
Rich -- we used to get "High Gluten Flour" and it worked well except we never had an oven at home which could reach the requisite 700 degrees F.

I tried it on the grill once on a stone -- worked well, but the stone cracked.

My theory (as to why home made pizza isn't ever as good) is the dramatic temperature drop in the home variety oven when the pizza is put in. While the box is warming back up the ingredients aren't cooking -- thus the somewhat gloopy mess.

Real pizza ovens have high mass and high temperatures -- there is little temperature drop when the uncooked pizza is put in -- the cooking happens immediately, providing a searing effect on the outside of the bread and the cheese.

Coal ovens are best because of the very high temperatures that can be sustained (over 1000 F)

Whaddya dink 'bout dat?
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Makes sense. My oven loses a whole lot of temperature when the door is opened. I wonder if the broiler might work better...

Around here, 500 degrees seems to be the standard pizzeria temperature for thin crust, which is placed directly on the bottom of the oven. For thick crust, a cast-iron tray is used, and the dough is proofed prior to being topped and baked. The tray prevents the bottom and sides of the dough from getting too crispy.

I think the high-gluten flour might actually cause more rise and a thicker crust. It certainly would result in better dough structure. I sometimes add vital gluten to whole wheat bread dough to increase the rise when I want a lighter consistency. That usually means I'm baking the bread for others, since I prefer a somewhat heavier consistency myself.

By the way, a little white vinegar will also help the rise, as long as you don't overdo it. I add about a half tsp. of white vinegar for each loaf in a batch when making whole wheat breads. Many people use ascorbic acid (vitamin C) instead. In either case, the slight increase in acidity is beneficial to both the yeast activity and the gluten development.

But of course, adding too much acid will reduce the pH to the point that it will retard, not enhance, the yeast's activity.

-Rich
 
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ScottM said:
Is that the genuine NY Pizza the The Donald took Sarah Paling to eat in Times Square?

It sort of looks like slice of Souffers after it was run over by a NY City trash wagon.
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That's how it's supposed to look!

Eating Chicago pizza is like eating grade-school pizza bagels. You can't even fold it properly. How are you supposed to eat pizza without folding it?

-Rich
 
RJM62 said:
That's how it's supposed to look!

Eating Chicago pizza is like eating grade-school pizza bagels. You can't even fold it properly. How are you supposed to eat pizza without folding it?

-Rich
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Seek mental help. Seriously. If you want the stuff in the middle, and surrounded by bread, go get a stromboli.
 
RJM62 said:
Makes sense. My oven loses a whole lot of temperature when the door is opened. I wonder if the broiler might work better...

Around here, 500 degrees seems to be the standard pizzeria temperature for thin crust, which is placed directly on the bottom of the oven. For thick crust, a cast-iron tray is used, and the dough is proofed prior to being topped and baked. The tray prevents the bottom and sides of the dough from getting too crispy.

I think the high-gluten flour might actually cause more rise and a thicker crust. It certainly would result in better dough structure. I sometimes add vital gluten to whole wheat bread dough to increase the rise when I want a lighter consistency. That usually means I'm baking the bread for others, since I prefer a somewhat heavier consistency myself.

By the way, a little white vinegar will also help the rise, as long as you don't overdo it. I add about a half tsp. of white vinegar for each loaf in a batch when making whole wheat breads. Many people use ascorbic acid (vitamin C) instead. In either case, the slight increase in acidity is beneficial to both the yeast activity and the gluten development.

But of course, adding too much acid will reduce the pH to the point that it will retard, not enhance, the yeast's activity.

-Rich
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Rich- this makes sense as many fungi like it slightly acid.. I'll try a touch of vinegar next time I make pizza. I also use bread flour for the gluten. I once had pizza in Naples, Italy (the real stuff). It was very chewy, suggesting a high gluten content. I let mine rise overnight in a cool place.

The pizza in Naples looked like the stuff you get from a good shop in New York.
 
The best pizza in existence is made in the ovens (oven, actually, but ovens sounds better) of Steinholme. We make our own frozen pizzas that are better than anything you can buy. Those we make fresh are better still. For a party we once made a red pizza, a green pizza, and a white pizza. Everyone said that each was better than any they had eaten before. Better than New York. Better than Chicago. Steinholme rules.
 
Thin, straight, tomato sauce with onions and pineapple only - maybe thinly sliced ham once in a while.
 
RJM62 said:
That's how it's supposed to look!

Eating Chicago pizza is like eating grade-school pizza bagels. You can't even fold it properly. How are you supposed to eat pizza without folding it?

-Rich
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Pizza is not meant to be folded, even the thin crust stuff. The only reason you NYers have to fold it is to keep the grease off of your drool stained Yankees jerseys!



:D
 
Scott, your second-tier-city inferiority is showing.

(It's revealing that the Worldwide Global headquarters of Kraft Foods -- purveyors of such gastronomical staples such as:
miracle-whip-coupon.jpg

and

macaroni.jpg

and

kraft-cheez-whiz-15oz.jpg


is in Illinois, home of this guy:

blagojevich-thumb-300x412-51402.jpg


and this messy concoction you call "Pizza":

web_obama_pizza.jpg
 
dmccormack said:
and this messy concoction you call "Pizza":

web_obama_pizza.jpg
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No, Rich calls that pizza.

See you even you know that the sloppy soft crust cheese bread called NY style sucks. But then it also appears that you really have no idea about what Chicago style pizza is, in spite of all that has been discussed and shown on the Pizza of America (PoA) website.
 
ScottM said:
No, Rich calls that pizza.

See you even you know that the sloppy soft crust cheese bread called NY style sucks. But then it also appears that you really have no idea about what Chicago style pizza is, in spite of all that has been discussed and shown on the Pizza of America (PoA) website.
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Are you suggesting that the former junior Senator from Illinois does not know he is ingesting a Chicago bready-ketchup-cake?
 
ScottM said:
I am not saying that all. I am saying that when it comes to pizza you have no idea what you are talking about.
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You're right, I don't know what you're taking about.

:nonod:

Nevertheless, I'll simply continue enjoying folded slices of New York's gift to humanity while you call that gloppy mess of Kraft ingredients a " Chicago style pizza."

:rolleyes:
 
None of you know anything at all about pizza. Only Steingar, who rules the pizzaverse.
 
dmccormack said:
Are you suggesting that the former junior Senator from Illinois does not know he is ingesting a Chicago bready-ketchup-cake?
Click to expand...

ScottM said:
I am not saying that all. I am saying that when it comes to pizza you have no idea what you are talking about.
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I would say that, however. That picture is definitely NOT Chicago pizza. Clues:

1. Curved, doughy crust. Chicago pizza is baked in a pan, so the crust side is vertical. And crunchy, often with a butter crust.

2. Cheese with ingredients on top. Chicago pizza has pizza sauce on the top, with the cheese at the bottom.

3. Salad on a pizza. Seriously? What's with the arugula and thin tomato slice? Chicago pizza may have mushrooms, peppers, or onions, but is usually covered with chunks of stewed tomatos, and capped with slabs (not chunks or, God help us, ground pieces) of Italian sausage. Sometimes pepperoni for the novices or tourists.

Here is a picture of Chicago pizza: http://www.loumalnatis.com/

Now stop making me agree with Scott.
 
Thin
Straight (unless it flops down then fold it over)
Tomato(e) sauce ;)
 
all I can say is, growing up on Chef Boyardee's home baked pizza kits (closest pizza place was 40 miles away), then Shakey's Pizza Bunch of lunch 3x a week in college, I was totally not prepared for my first slice of pizza in Naples, Italy.

So, I eat just about anything called "pizza" (but can't handle anchovies on pizza - but love sardines, pickled herring, etc - just not on pizza)
 
Thick, straight, with tomato sauce.

Screw Chicago and New York, tho. Give me some good ol' Glass Nickel from Wisconsin any time! Or, Rocky's. If Glass Nickel used Rocky's sausage, they'd be perfect.
 
Cue Kent with the Wisconsin reference that few of us will ever know what he's talking about. ;)
 
Thick

Either

And yes, tomato sauce
 
denverpilot said:
Cue Kent with the Wisconsin reference that few of us will ever know what he's talking about. ;)
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Bah. Let's order some Glass Nickel pizza at OSH.

Hell, we could get some Rocky's too so you could see what sausage oughtta be.
 
I'm surprised Kent didn't tout how awesome the pizza is at Johnson Creek. :rofl: :rofl:
 
EdFred said:
I'm surprised Kent didn't tout how awesome the pizza is at Johnson Creek. :rofl: :rofl:
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:rofl:

I didn't even realize what you were talking about at first... I was thinking Johnson Creek, WI, which is near RYV, which I've mentioned a couple times in the last couple of days as a place to fly into for food. But I don't know anything about any pizza in Johnson Creek (WI or ID).
 
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