PIREP Garmin GPS 175

[iamtheari]

I find the split screen of my GNX375 a non issue. As said above after two presses it usually has the shortcut pop up to what I’m looking for.

It may depend on where you're going. My home airport is an S## code and there are a lot of those around, so I usually need to flip between the letters and numbers at least once when I'm setting up the magenta line for my route home. But I do that on the ground where the turbulence tends to be light to moderate at worst.

 

[asicer]

But I do that on the ground where the turbulence tends to be light to moderate at worst.

"N12345, center, I have a re-route for you. Advise when ready to copy."

 

[iamtheari]

"N12345, center, I have a re-route for you. Advise when ready to copy."

I don’t have a 650 in front of me at the moment, but other than airways which I think have a shortcut, there aren’t many numbers to enter with any reroute I’ve had to manage in the air. So the 650 number/letter dance doesn’t usually play into that scenario.

 

[texasclouds]

What do y’all think of this mock up to get IFR capability? Replace TC with AV30, add CDI, add GPS175. I was quoted approx $1500 for a plug and play harness that me and my A/P could install. I did the mock up on my iPad, don’t laugh.

For almost double the cost, I could add two GI275 units, but those have to be installed by a Garmin rep.

The Aera 660 will talk to the GPS175 as well. It clips in the mount shown in middle of panel and is my current VFR nav.

 

[WDD]

The key 6 pack instruments are spread and out of order, and the gps unit is in a bad location down and to the left. Getting the proper IFR eye scan is going to be hard.

Maybe put in 2 G5s and cut your panel to make room for the GPS unit so it is closer to the middle and higher - closer to eye level.

 

[texasclouds]

@WDD I agree with you, a pair of G5 or 275 units would give me all needed info in two instruments, allow the vacuum system to be removed, and moving GPS center panel would be ideal. That just is more costly. Much safer though.

The AV30 gives me AI, ASI, Alt, VS, Hdg, AOA. It’s a neat unit that would add situational awareness vs the TC.

Of course, if my vacuum stuff goes out then I probably will end up with two glass instruments anyhow. Maybe I should just wait and do it right vs a quick fix.

Would it be sacrilege to cut a square hole in this beautiful overlay?

 

[WDD]

I feel your pain with the cost. A thought for you to consider is to not add IFR capability until you've saved the additional $8000 to get the dual G5's. Or $10000 to get the slicker looking 275's. I find flying IFR is fun/challenging enough with the proper eye scan, instruments arranged "correctly", etc. Spending X amount to get you something that difficult to use vs spending X+Y to get it really usable is money well spent IMHO.

Sacrilege to cut into that nice panel? Maybe a little. But I like Jay Leno's approach on these things. For example, he has added disc brakes to some of his vintage cars to keep them as close to original as possible BUT making allowances to make the car much safer and drivable. Sticking the GPS down there, AI over here, DG and CDI over there, just isn't going to be enjoyable for you I think.

 

[somorris]

I agree you would likely get pretty tired pretty quick with the 175 where you have it shown. I think I would bite the bullet and cut a hole in the new panel.

 

[WDD]

Tired, and eye - and head - moving that distance is going to increase risk of spacial disorientation.

 

[iamtheari]

I don’t have a 650 in front of me at the moment, but other than airways which I think have a shortcut, there aren’t many numbers to enter with any reroute I’ve had to manage in the air. So the 650 number/letter dance doesn’t usually play into that scenario.

I just loaded up the trainer software and tried this with a 650 Xi, using my recent flight home along airways. Other than putting my destination airport in, I didn't have to type any numbers at all. I started with a flight plan consisting of the departure airport and destination airport, then "in the air" changed from direct routing to the airways. Tap destination, tap Insert Before, type the VOR name, then from there tap the VOR in the flight plan and choose Load Airway, find the airway, find the exit point, and confirm. Rinse and repeat as needed.

I agree with @SixPapaCharlie in post #15 that it can be a struggle to use touch screens in turbulence. But the 650's keyboard makes no real difference there. And you can use the knobs for most (but admittedly not all) of the data entry required for setting up a flight plan.

As far as radios go, I don't think it's sacrilege to cut holes in or just replace the entire panel. But it's personal preference. The OP could consider a lot of radio options for that classic panel and I won't fault him for whatever he chooses. He's the one who has to look at it all the time.

 

[texasclouds]

Some more GPS 175 / C170 panels:

 

[aviatomar]

Ok boomer

I’m not a boomer and it’s kinda dumb not to have a knob. Worst airplane every was a Primus King air trying to poke the screen.
Why do you think every airliner has buttons? Because turbulence.

And I’m 38. Not a boomer but you sound like an idiot.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

I’m not a boomer and it’s kinda dumb not to have a knob. Worst airplane every was a Primus King air trying to poke the screen.
Why do you think every airliner has buttons? Because turbulence.

And I’m 38. Not a boomer but you sound like an idiot.

The 175 has a knob. And you can perform any function with it same as you can with the touch screen.

 

[aviatomar]

The 175 has a knob. And you can perform any function with it same as you can with the touch screen.

Thank the lord for that. I thought it was only touch screen.

 

[texasclouds]

I’m not a boomer and it’s kinda dumb not to have a knob. Worst airplane every was a Primus King air trying to poke the screen.
Why do you think every airliner has buttons? Because turbulence.

And I’m 38. Not a boomer but you sound like an idiot.

Lighten up Francis, that jab was at 6PC who also is a young buck and a bit of a jokester.

 

[aviatomar]

Lighten up Francis, that jab was at 6PC who also is a young buck and a bit of a jokester.

Did I offend you by calling you an idiot? Thin skin? Sorry to offend…

 

[texasclouds]

Did I offend you by calling you an idiot? Thin skin? Sorry to offend…

Bruh, it’s all good…

 

[PPC1052]

But I like Jay Leno's approach on these things. For example, he has added disc brakes to some of his vintage cars to keep them as close to original as possible BUT making allowances to make the car much safer and drivable.

Yeah, but he set his face on fire, so what the hell does he know?

 

[hindsight2020]

 

[NordicDave]

the 430 unit is complete garbage. I can't believe I ever said a single good word about that thing. I guess coming from some of the cr@p rentals I used to fly, getting in a plane with a 430 at the time seemed awesome.

Any time I see someone paying money to install a used 430, I laugh, maniacally on the inside.

The 430 and especially the 430W is a reliable GPS. People still install them due to cost. The current cost of a GTN-650Txi is $13,600 and requires a Garmin dealer install. A quality GNS430 costs about $2K or less and a dual voltage GNS-430W about $5500-$6K and only requires an A&P sign-off for a full nav/com/GPS. Some planes are not worth the full retail monty of latest Garmin gear.

Yea twisting the knob is not one of my favorite ways to program a GPS.
I am also spoiled by using FF on a I pad and a FS510 to transfer the flight plan to the 650.

My plane has a mint 430W with a FS210. 80% of 430W operation is via Foreflight, with frequency selection accounting for most of the direct use.

Sounds like a number experiences above are with the 430 is in a roached-out trainer with a sad overworked unit.

I have a mint condition 430W and like it. The only reason I'm upgrading to a GTN-650TXi this Spring is 100% of the panel is being updated and didn't make sense to not upgrade the nav/com/GPS.

 

[asicer]

a dual voltage GNS-430W about $5500-$6K and only requires an A&P sign-off for a full nav/com/GPS. Some planes are not worth the full retail monty of latest Garmin gear.

That's where the GPS175 comes in. Add in a COM somewhere and you're in the same pricing ballpark and A&P sign-off as that ancient GNS430W. Sure, you're down a NAV but hopefully you'll come to the realization that NAV is mostly only for MON backup these days and a separate box makes for better redundancy anyway.

I often "fly" an AATD simulator that has a fake 530. In comparison, I find the GPS175 display easier to read since it doesn't have the chunky pixels and 16color limitation of its grandfather. YMMV (I've never needed corrective lenses and the DMV/FAA/optometrist say I still don't have to have them to fly/drive).

 

[Mongoose Aviator]

Some planes are not worth the full retail monty of latest Garmin gear.

Everybody has their own budget. As well as their own thought process around how "worth" is considered.
For me, I consider what will my definition of "worth" be when I am in the air in an uncomfortable situation.

I do still run with a 430W. Not all by itself, but I do like it.

My plane has a mint 430W with a FS210. 80% of 430W operation is via Foreflight, with frequency selection accounting for most of the direct use.

Same. My flight plans are pushed in via FS. I still occasionally dial a waypoint or modify a route directly on the 430 so I do not forget how to spin the knobs.

I have a mint condition 430W and like it. The only reason I'm upgrading to a GTN-650TXi this Spring

I did add the GTN650xi w/FS510 but still retained the GNS430W (although removed the FS210 as it was no longer useful with the FS510). Panel space was tight but I found room in a reasonable configuration. The flight plans flow from FF via the FS510 into the 650 then down into the 430. Retaining the 430 allowed me to take my time and learn the 650 in the air as I still had the 430 which I am very comfortable with. On the other hand, the 430 is sometimes a crutch as I am not forced to do everything in the 650. But I like my crutch. I will keep my 430W until it dies and the cost to repair/refurb/replace it [with another 430W] goes beyond what I consider reasonable. No idea what that cost threshold is for me until it happens.

 

[aviatomar]

Or what about the gns480. Of course it’s old. But they are all over for 3500 bucks… seems like a decent deal…

 

[wheaties]

I thought the AV-30 wasn't certified as a primary for IFR GPS Navigation. So as long as your intention isn't to go there...

 

[asicer]

I thought the AV-30 wasn't certified as a primary for IFR GPS Navigation. So as long as your intention isn't to go there...

Ok for IFR operation. Not OK for IFR navigation. Can replace an AI and/or DG. Cannot replace CDI or HSI.

 

[texasclouds]

Ok for IFR operation. Not OK for IFR navigation. Can replace an AI and/or DG. Cannot replace CDI or HSI.

That is what I read, the “hsi” does not provide any vertical GS guidance at this time.

I find this company’s kit to be amusing since they market it “certified ifr”:

 

[Llewtrah381]

That’s in the same price range as the GI 275’s. Not sure I see the advantage of the AV-30s and I think the 275s are more capable and proven.

Add:
Oops - that’s for two AV30s. Never mind. Still, one kinda gets what one pays for.

 

[mondtster]

That is what I read, the “hsi” does not provide any vertical GS guidance at this time.

I find this company’s kit to be amusing since they market it “certified ifr”:

The "HSI" page doesn't show heading. It just displays gps ground track. So it isn't even close to being an "HSI" even if it did show some vertical guidance.

But it is capable of being used for instrument flying as a DG, if you trust it enough to do so. Based on my experiences with the AV30, I sure don't.

 

[asicer]

But it is capable of being used for instrument flying as a DG, if you trust it enough to do so. Based on my experiences with the AV30, I sure don't.

Depends on how much more you trust GPS track vs a compass heading, but that's a whole 'nuther can of worms.

 

[camorton]

Would it be sacrilege to cut a square hole in this beautiful overlay?

Yes! Yes, it would.

Listen to the people on this board and you'll be destroying that sweet original panel to install a G3X. I have a 1962 182 with the non-standard layout and it works for IFR just fine. Maybe if you jump from plane to plane a lot it would be a pain, but when it's your one and only, personal airplane you get used to it real quick and becomes quite normal. Yeah, having the GPS mounted low on the panel is not ideal, but that's the way it is with the older, pre-center stack Cessnas.

Put in the 175 and a CDI and you're good to go for IFR GPS approaches. I'm not sure what the AV-30 does for you. I'd just put the CDI where the intercom is and be done with it. I flew IFR for years with one of those old AN-style horizons, too.

Also consider that a GI275 could be connected to your 175 and your KX125 at the same time and (assuming you have the GS board) now you have everything you need to fly ILS/LOC/VOR approaches also.

But for god's sake don't cut up that original panel to install a G5. No knock on the hardware, I think it's just so worth it to spend up for the 275 in this situation.

 

[texasclouds]

@camorton Thanks for the reply. I’m definitely not going to do a complete panel redo any time soon. I just need to safely get through a layer from time to time on an XC. With the safety net of being able to do a GPS approach if weather turns for the worse. 99% of my flying will be VFR.

I have done a few foggle VOR approaches as is and had no issue. Also have flown some night flights over unpopulated areas with a layer above me that was pretty much instruments only. I have a scan that works.

 

[Ed Haywood]

AV-30 DG performance should improve this spring or summer when/if the remote magnetometer is STC'd.