Pilot Veterans!! Any truth to letters being sent out in ref VA DISABILITY

[58driver]

ALCON

Word on the street is that the FAA has sent out about 1000 letters to VETS with medicals ,to paraphrase….“come clean on block 18 NOW and receive only sanctions, because if we find it, and we will find it, now it will be criminal proceedings going FWD…”

Got a buddy, which has yet to receive a letter, who thought it was a good idea to get a lawyer and send the medical folks a statement basically stating he has been lying since 2017 and decided to come clean now. His argument is that he received COMPENSATION and not DISABILITY…..because he can still work. Which is why his answer to have you or do you receive……

DR. B Chien sir, what say you?

As well as everyone else

 

[Fearless Tower]

Haven’t received a letter, but not worried about it. I just started receiving compensation this year, so easy check in the block on my medical next month.

Arguing about the semantics of disability vs compensate is completely missing the point.

The issue here isn’t that you can’t be ‘disabled’ and fly.

It’s really about WHAT your compensation is for. There are unfortunately a lot of guys out there who managed to get compensation for conditions that would preclude them from holding a medical, and yet they failed to report their condition and are out there flying in the 121 world.

It’s not just the FAA doing this by the way. Coast Guard also going after mariners doing the same.

 

[58driver]

Haven’t received a letter, but not worried about it. I just started receiving compensation this year, so easy check in the block on my medical next month.

Arguing about the semantics of disability vs compensate is completely missing the point.

The issue here isn’t that you can’t be ‘disabled’ and fly.

It’s really about WHAT your compensation is for. There are unfortunately a lot of guys out there who managed to get compensation for conditions that would preclude them from holding a medical, and yet they failed to report their condition and are out there flying in the 121 world.

It’s not just the FAA doing this by the way. Coast Guard also going after mariners doing the same.

Ahhhh ok… thank you sir! I myself don’t hold a medical because I checked yes on Block 18 back in July of 2018 and stopped jumping through the hoops when Covid-19 hit in 2020

 

[Llewtrah381]

he received COMPENSATION and not DISABILITY…..

He’s receiving compensation FOR a disability. It’s not an either-or: it’s a both-and.

And, sorry, I have no sympathy for anyone who falsifies a record about a disability that could impact their flying.

I was a military physician for 24 years and dealt with many aspects of the disability program. It’s generous to a fault and, unfortunately, incentivizes not-ideal behavior. Lots of people “disabled” because of conditions they ate, smoked, or otherwise “lifestyle’d” themselves into a compensable disability despite the best efforts of the military to help them not do so. There are DEFINITELY people with truly service-connected diseases and people with cancers, etc. who are getting good care and coverage.

There are “service connected disabilities” with zero aviation impact (a woman gets an automatic 30% disability for a hysterectomy, even though I’m not sure I ever figured out the wartime use of a uterus). But if someone claimed a disability (and gets compensation) and didn’t document it on their FAA exam, I’m personally fine with that being tidied up if it’s relevant to flying status. Falsifying is falsifying, whether we personally think it medically matters or not.

 

[sourdough44]

I was active, then reserves, no disability. I know one lady, recruited when they were hard up during the depths of the Gulf war. She should of never been allowed in, kinda a big druggie & various behavior issues. She made it through a few weeks of Army basic, then got ushered out.

For these few weeks, she milks EVERYTHING. She has the DAV plate, is 1st in line at any Veterans benefit offerings. The last I heard she gets $1800 a month, plus medical & various other things. How we ever going to win with people like that?

On the other end is the Veteran with no legs from the IED, who deserves EVERYTHING. I’ve talked to some that got out a handful of years ago, often offered options for a partial disability. It’s like a relative that worked the Corrections field years ago, toward the end they would do better to go out early on ‘stress leave’. Yeah, if it’s offered, many will take advantage of it.

 

[Velocity173]

Not sure why they even try to hide it these days. FAA doesn’t care other than making sure there’s a paper trail for said disability.

Worked with a guy with 100 % disability and had no problems maintaining an FAA medical. Parked in a handicapped parking spot right next to the helicopter he flew. The irony.

 

[58driver]

He’s receiving compensation FOR a disability. It’s not an either-or: it’s a both-and.

And, sorry, I have no sympathy for anyone who falsifies a record about a disability that could impact their flying.

I was a military physician for 24 years and dealt with many aspects of the disability program. It’s generous to a fault and, unfortunately, incentivizes not-ideal behavior. Lots of people “disabled” because of conditions they ate, smoked, or otherwise “lifestyle’d” themselves into a compensable disability despite the best efforts of the military to help them not do so. There are DEFINITELY people with truly service-connected diseases and people with cancers, etc. who are getting good care and coverage.

There are “service connected disabilities” with zero aviation impact (a woman gets an automatic 30% disability for a hysterectomy, even though I’m not sure I ever figured out the wartime use of a uterus). But if someone claimed a disability (and gets compensation) and didn’t document it on their FAA exam, I’m personally fine with that being tidied up if it’s relevant to flying status. Falsifying is falsifying, whether we personally think it medically matters or not.

Sir….I could not agree with you more!!! And thank you so much for your kind and honest response.
He is just one of many MANY Army buddies that chose to lie…bottom line…upon retirement I went to my AME, I filled out the Med Express and answered YES to everything and promptly got deferred. This was 2018 and I decided to go ahead and do the right thing and contacted B Chien and he told me exactly what I had to do. The pandemic squashed all of that, as well as other life priorities and the Medical took a backseat for the time being. Fortunately, and I thank God for this, I was a construction dude before the Army and am now a Welder…WHICH I LOVE!!! Also, I’m only 51 so if I want to pursue this, then there is plenty of time.

 

[58driver]

Now….what does the collective group think about his chances of keeping his current medical while the FAA sorts all of this out through his lawyer??

I personally think that once this gets out, the FAA will send out their own letters revoking current Medical status…..followed by letters of what is needed to regain their medical

 

[58driver]

Not sure why they even try to hide it these days. FAA doesn’t care other than making sure there’s a paper trail for said disability.

Worked with a guy with 100 % disability and had no problems maintaining an FAA medical. Parked in a handicapped parking spot right next to the helicopter he flew. The irony.

Right?!?!?! What did you fly in the Army?? I started out as a 58D guy and retired as a 64D pilot with about 2600 hrs, all RW

 

[bflynn]

There are “service connected disabilities” with zero aviation impact (a woman gets an automatic 30% disability for a hysterectomy, even though I’m not sure I ever figured out the wartime use of a uterus). But if someone claimed a disability (and gets compensation) and didn’t document it on their FAA exam, I’m personally fine with that being tidied up if it’s relevant to flying status. Falsifying is falsifying, whether we personally think it medically matters or not.

Disability is not for military needs, it for how the military impacts your life. A woman with a hysterectomy is very impacted. Someone on our boat put on 70 lbs in 4 years because there's not much of an opportunity to exercise on the boat, but there IS very good food and a very sedentary lifestyle. There's no disability for that, but it's hard to argue the living conditions didn't heavily contribute.

Yes, falsifying is falsifying.

 

[58driver]

Disability is not for military needs, it for how the military impacts your life. A woman with a hysterectomy is very impacted. Someone on our boat put on 70 lbs in 4 years because there's not much of an opportunity to exercise on the boat, but there IS very good food and a very sedentary lifestyle. There's no disability for that, but it's hard to argue the living conditions didn't heavily contribute.

Yes, falsifying is falsifying.

Right!?!!!
Im sure that we all have friends that you CANNOT argue with…PERIOD.
When he told me this, all I could think of was….dude…you lied….and I think that the FAA is going to say the same…with or without a lawyer

 

[Fearless Tower]

Now….what does the collective group think about his chances of keeping his current medical while the FAA sorts all of this out through his lawyer??

I personally think that once this gets out, the FAA will send out their own letters revoking current Medical status…..followed by letters of what is needed to regain their medical

Again, it depends entirely on the condition claimed.

If it is PTSD, probably not so much.

If it is something like Sleep Apnea and he can get all his ducks in a row for an SI, then he’s got a chance.

 

[Clip4]

Maybe the real issue too many disability pensions granted to fully able people. It’s not just a VA thing, far too many in police retirement systems as well.

 

[58driver]

Again, it depends entirely on the condition claimed.

If it is PTSD, probably not so much.

If it is something like Sleep Apnea and he can get all his ducks in a row for an SI, then he’s got a chance.

Not sure

 

[SkyChaser]

Disability is not for military needs, it for how the military impacts your life. A woman with a hysterectomy is very impacted. Someone on our boat put on 70 lbs in 4 years because there's not much of an opportunity to exercise on the boat, but there IS very good food and a very sedentary lifestyle. There's no disability for that, but it's hard to argue the living conditions didn't heavily contribute.

Yes, falsifying is falsifying.

Maybe I'm wrong (I hope), but it sounded like if a woman got a hysterectomy for any reason while she was in the service, she automatically qualified for disability. If she received military-related injuries that required her to have a hysterectomy, I completely agree she should get compensation/disability. If she can get disability for just deciding to have one for personal reasons, while she just happened to be in the military...that's a problem.

 

[Clip4]

Disability is not for military needs, it for how the military impacts your life. A woman with a hysterectomy is very impacted. Someone on our boat put on 70 lbs in 4 years because there's not much of an opportunity to exercise on the boat, but there IS very good food and a very sedentary lifestyle. There's no disability for that, but it's hard to argue the living conditions didn't heavily contribute.

Yes, falsifying is falsifying.

Simple facts. Civilians require hysterectomies and would get laughed at applying for a disability. You get fat when you eat too much.

 

[bbchien]

Disability payments and diagnoses require reporting and "evaluation". It doens't work out so well if you don't. Google "27 pilots indicted". Google 4 Delta Pilots indicted". I see that it didn't work out so well for a one of them already.

If you dont' report it, it's not a matter of MD judgement. It's a matter of lying on an affadavit (the 8500-8). Hey no kidding.

 

[dbahn]

Disability is occupation specific. You can be disabled from one job but fully able to do a different one, even while receiving disability compensation. The FAA needs to know the reason for the disability so that they can determine if it affects your ability to act as PIC.

Curious. Why would such a letter go out to just 1,000 vets? How were those recipients selected?

Years ago a number of certificates were revoked when the FAA mined Social Security records of certificated pilots, which they were permitted to do as both were federal agencies.

 

[58driver]

Disability payments and diagnoses require reporting and "evaluation". It doens't work out so well if you don't. Google "27 pilots indicted". Google 4 Delta Pilots indicted". I see that it didn't work out so well for a one of them already.

If you dont' report it, it's not a matter of MD judgement. It's a matter of lying on an affadavit (the 8500-8). Hey no kidding.

As always good sir, thanks for the honest response….so…just as I thought, it aint good…

 

[58driver]

Disability is occupation specific. You can be disabled from one job but fully able to do a different one, even while receiving disability compensation. The FAA needs to know the reason for the disability so that they can determine if it affects your ability to act as PIC.

Curious. Why would such a letter go out to just 1,000 vets? How were those recipients selected?

Years ago a number of certificates were revoked when the FAA mined Social Security records of certificated pilots, which they were permitted to do as both were federal agencies.

Don’t know….again, this is “word on the street”….

the thing is, he hasn’t received a letter….he, and a few other pilots, “got ahead of this thing” and hired a lawyer….I personally don’t think a lawyer is going to help…the BIG PICTURE is that you falsified a government document…that is the bottom line…I think that is what the FAA is ultimately going to say

 

[lbfjrmd]

until a letter is produced, I suspect this is a resurrected rumor.

 

[58driver]

until a letter is produced, I suspect this is a resurrected rumor.

I kind of thought the same….but..in HIS rationality he thought it would be a good idea to try and nip it in the bud, BEFORE he even received “ a letter”…
By hiring a lawyer, and having already sent letters to the FAA, I think that he just opened up Pandora’s Box…

 

[Llewtrah381]

A woman with a hysterectomy is very impacted.

Impacted for childbearing? Absolutely. Impacted for her military role? Much harder to argue that. In fact, at the risk of getting flamed, lost duty time for pregnancy and whatever symptoms prompted the medical justification for the procedure could suggest an overall benefit to duty time.

But to automatically give 30% regardless of military impact just made me scratch my head. And should she have other minor conditions which add to her percent disability such that she reaches 50%, she then gets the license plate and tax-free retirement for that percentage.

 

[Salty]

What if there was an injury while on duty that resulted in a need for a hysterectomy? 30% seems way too low to compensate for that.

 

[Velocity173]

Right?!?!?! What did you fly in the Army?? I started out as a 58D guy and retired as a 64D pilot with about 2600 hrs, all RW

60s. Retired with 3,840 TT in 2012.

 

[Llewtrah381]

What if there was an injury while on duty that resulted in a need for a hysterectomy? 30% seems way too low to compensate for that.

Can you give me an example, especially one that didn’t include other significant injuries?

And I’m gonna guess, through the history of the US military, the number of women with a disability due to a uterus injured due to their duty can, generously, be counted on two hands. The number of women with a disability due to a hysterectomy for non-duty-related causes is several orders of magnitude higher.

I not only have no problem with people getting compensation for things that happened to them while serving our country, I think it’s a moral obligation as well. But for all the ranting people do about big government and entitlements, this is a real blind spot.

 

[Velocity173]

At work right now reading the book “Legend” about Roy Benavidez. Just finished the chapter where he gets awarded 80 % disability for his injuries. He expresses guilt in the term disability and that he wasn’t disabled. Guy was wounded over 30 times, stays in the Army for another 8 years and eventually gets upgraded (well deserved) to a MoH. I know guys who retired out of the Army flying helos, claim a bunch of BS aches and pains and get 80-90 %. You can bet they don’t feel the slightest guilt in taking that money either. A different time.

 

[Pugs]

I was a military physician for 24 years and dealt with many aspects of the disability program. It’s generous to a fault and, unfortunately, incentivizes not-ideal behavior. Lots of people “disabled” because of conditions they ate, smoked, or otherwise “lifestyle’d” themselves into a compensable disability despite the best efforts of the military to help them not do so. There are DEFINITELY people with truly service-connected diseases and people with cancers, etc. who are getting good care and coverage.

Agree. In my TAP class the VA came in basically pleading for people to apply for disability. "we WILL get you something". I was in no way the same body that started AOCS in 1986 and retired in 2007 but frankly I can't really attribute any of my (minor) maladies to my service or something I wasn't going to do anyway (thank you Bob Seeger concert). I refuse to paint anyone with a broad brush and everyone's situation is different but I could not honorably apply for any in my situation.

 

[hindsight2020]

I've commented on this topic before, but it is one of the greatest stains on the american military corps from where I sit, and I include massacres done in our name when I say that. I cannot begin to describe the level of maligning that pervades the ranks of the now millions who receive a VA-rating associated payment. My late uncle made a living not working for his entire life. Sad and dishonorable man.

I too know folks with 100 pct ratings actively flying for mainline. The income tax-free payment nature of the whole stick is the thing that throws it over the edge for me. In TX it also gets you the state side goodie of not paying property tax at 100pct; which remember, is a state with no income tax. C TX is riddled with such characters. None of these people are one bit guilty about it. They [the maligners, whether they privately self-identify as one or not] will tell you to your face it's a tragedy of the commons and you're the sucker for getting indignant/principled about it; though they don't use that terminology as most of these grifters are too monosyllabic to speak that way in the first place. I digress.

There is an entire sub-industry of remoras dedicated to refining the medical documentation you gather during VA-related pre-exit/retirement claims, in order to maximize the approval of conditions in the most additive/optimal way for the final rating count. It almost literally turns my stomach when juxtaposed to the multiple amputee getting not getting 100. And yes, in my line of the DoD, most of the biggest maligners I am acquainted with are in fact, six figure income earning 121ers. Like they needed another reason to further foul the already checkered reputation of "mil-droppers" from the purview of the civi-only a-word crowd.

So y'all forgive me the indulgence and relative dishonor I incur in experiencing chubber-inducing schadenfreude when these tax-free maligners bone up their primary livelihood by running afoul of the FAA or VA, whether by targeted justice or arbitrary bureaucratic happenstance. Yummy yummy in my tummy.

 

[Velocity173]

The problem with the VA disability is three fold. 1) it allows disabilities to be claimed that aren’t service related. 2) it allows too high of a disability rating for multiple claims. 3) allows in some cases (PTSD) claims that can’t be proven. It’s not 10-20 %ers that are abusing the system; there are just some things that can’t be hidden on a VA physical. Not to mention, those guys are a drop in the bucket as far as compensation. The problem is the 80-90 %ers that claim everything under the sun. 50 % for sleep apnea, 10 % joint pain, 10 % back pain, 10 % tinnitus, 10 % psoriasis. 90 % total for never seeing a lick of strenuous combat and a nice $2,000 a month tax free check from Joe taxpayer. That’s the problem and it’s impossible to get rid of.

 

[hindsight2020]

The problem with the VA disability is three fold. 1) it allows disabilities to be claimed that aren’t service related. 2) it allows too high of a disability rating for multiple claims. 3) allows in some cases (PTSD) claims that can’t be proven. It’s not 10-20 %ers that are abusing the system; there are just some things that can’t be hidden on a VA physical. Not to mention, those guys are a drop in the bucket as far as compensation. The problem is the 80-90 %ers that claim everything under the sun. 50 % for sleep apnea, 10 % joint pain, 10 % back pain, 10 % tinnitus, 10 % psoriasis. 90 % total for never seeing a lick of strenuous combat and a nice $2,000 a month tax free check from Joe taxpayer. That’s the problem and it’s impossible to get rid of.

Bingo. And though I'm waiting to hear from the usual pedant to come here and [correctly] point out that the ratings are not all inherently straight additive, the point still remains: these grifters know that, and malign tactically enough to gain the proper combination, as advised by the VA-literate remoras.

I've seen some of these claims sheets on their portals. Pending adjudication for 35 separate line items (I had to count them I couldn't believe it), on their way to 100pct. One was visibly upset he was getting snagged at 90pct because the delay in adjudication for the remaining balance 10 line items or so was cramping his style. On a 35 item case file. Unreal.

 

[wilkersk]

The problem with the VA disability is three fold. 1) it allows disabilities to be claimed that aren’t service related. 2) it allows too high of a disability rating for multiple claims. 3) allows in some cases (PTSD) claims that can’t be proven. It’s not 10-20 %ers that are abusing the system; there are just some things that can’t be hidden on a VA physical. Not to mention, those guys are a drop in the bucket as far as compensation. The problem is the 80-90 %ers that claim everything under the sun. 50 % for sleep apnea, 10 % joint pain, 10 % back pain, 10 % tinnitus, 10 % psoriasis. 90 % total for never seeing a lick of strenuous combat and a nice $2,000 a month tax free check from Joe taxpayer. That’s the problem and it’s impossible to get rid of.

I did 22 years in the Navy. More than 2,500 flight hours in helicopters as an enlisted crewman. 2 deployments to hostile fire zones and more than 5 years cumulative of at-sea time. I got out without applying for a disability rating because it seemed to me, even back then, at best a lot of hassle for not much gain, and at worst, some kind of scam.

At the time (1999), I had plans to work my way into a regional cockpit. And, I didn't want the FAA asking me why I'm disabled and wanting to fly for a living. But, those crazy kids from Saudi Arabia had other ideas. So, I ended up quitting flying altogether for a few years.

These guys with no-$71t service connected disabilities deserve every penny they get (or get tax-free). But, the guys that claiming disability and hiding it from the FAA are due what's coming to them.

 

[58driver]

Disability payments and diagnoses require reporting and "evaluation". It doens't work out so well if you don't. Google "27 pilots indicted". Google 4 Delta Pilots indicted". I see that it didn't work out so well for a one of them already.

If you dont' report it, it's not a matter of MD judgement. It's a matter of lying on an affadavit (the 8500-8). Hey no kidding.

Dr. Chien….so, do think that the FAA will terminate his current medical, once his lawyer let them know about the lying on block 18? Because he was pretty confident that he gets to keep it until it expires

 

[FCAJR8630]

There's another aspect of this ... if you are a "disabled" Veteran, you can set up a Service-Disabled, Veteran-Owned, Small-Business (SDVOSB) and gain all kinds of benefits in the Government contracting world. This is VERY lucrative for those that participate. Like what has been said, no one begrudges those Veterans that are truly disabled and deserve the benefits, but there are too many examples of abuses in this area too.

 

[58driver]

There's another aspect of this ... if you are a "disabled" Veteran, you can set up a Service-Disabled, Veteran-Owned, Small-Business (SDVOSB) and gain all kinds of benefits in the Government contracting world. This is VERY lucrative for those that participate. Like what has been said, no one begrudges those Veterans that are truly disabled and deserve the benefits, but there are too many examples of abuses in this area too.

Very cool!!!! Will have to look into this

 

[Timbeck2]

I work with a retired E-8 who is in better shape physically than I am and is getting 100% disability compensation. He tried to talk me into "upgrading" my own compensation and even went as far as to show me the motions he went through to fake his back "injury" and knee flexibility. It was a sickening display and I let him know about it. I have no plans to "upgrade" my percentage just to get free money from the tax payers.

I also had a guy from the VA ask me if I wanted to upgrade. When I asked why, he said, "Well, you've gotten worse haven't you?" I'm sure he was only trying to help since any upgrade I may get doesn't go into his pocket but I'm an honest guy and will stay that way.

 

[bbchien]

Dr. Chien….so, do think that the FAA will terminate his current medical, once his lawyer let them know about the lying on block 18? Because he was pretty confident that he gets to keep it until it expires

"It depends". He should NOT be confident, because there is a VAH/FAA program in which the 1 year re-up Psych eval is done by a VAH psychiatrist. IMO Those are the ones at risk for losing the award if warranted to be in full recovery. This has happened to two of mine. However both now work for part 121 Air Carriers.

A very influential IL. Veteran Senator thinks that if you are completely recovered, no further award is appropriate.

 

[58driver]

Ok…wow…hope it all works out for him and all the rest….but, it ain’t happening overnight…

also, when able, please explain “completely recovered, no further award is appropriate” Not sure what this implies

 

[Velocity173]

I work with a retired E-8 who is in better shape physically than I am and is getting 100% disability compensation. He tried to talk me into "upgrading" my own compensation and even went as far as to show me the motions he went through to fake his back "injury" and knee flexibility. It was a sickening display and I let him know about it. I have no plans to "upgrade" my percentage just to get free money from the tax payers.

I also had a guy from the VA ask me if I wanted to upgrade. When I asked why, he said, "Well, you've gotten worse haven't you?" I'm sure he was only trying to help since any upgrade I may get doesn't go into his pocket but I'm an honest guy and will stay that way.

The 100 % guy I used to work with used to brag about going to the gym. One day asked me about my VA claim. When he found out I claim zero, he said “oh you left a lot of money on the table.”

So glad when he left. Was the epitome of laziness and lack of attention to detail. Two traits that don’t go well in my line of work.

 

[Rushie]

A woman with a hysterectomy is very impacted.

Impacted for childbearing? Absolutely. Impacted for her military role? Much harder to argue that.

If a woman has a tendency to pelvic organ prolapse (POP), which is very common but not talked about much, then the impact can be lifelong and devastating. In fact, hysterectomy is often used as a treatment for mild or moderate POP, when it actually can exacerbate the condition. The uterus is kind of like a structural brick holding everything else in place. Remove a prolapsed uterus and you progress a cystocele. Repair that with mesh or whatnot and you get a rectocele. Try to repair that and you make room for an enterocele - the intestines start sliding down. Maybe you can suture the back of the vagina to the spine. Finally maybe you just sew the vagina shut.

Externally prolapsed uterus, maybe you have to go down that road. Most remain internal, mild to moderate, and there are way better conservative treatments but hysterectomies are oversold to women. If you need one for other reasons, cancer, postpartum hemorrhage, etc. then it is what it is, but don’t get me started on elective.

If you remove both ovaries too, that’s a whole nother can of worms.

But to automatically give 30% regardless of military impact just made me scratch my head.

Agree with that. Many woman don’t have any issues after hysterectomy and those that do vary on a spectrum of impact. Maybe you can’t stand on your feet all day but you can handle a desk job for example.