Personal Minimums for Instrument Currency

so, as noted, its been awhile, do tower guys still need to do PAR approaches and do they still need to practice vectoring? I know our IPs in the Army were famous for throwing on the hood and saying "big cloud!" now what? and usually, we'd just dial up a local controlled airfield and either request vectors out of the "weather" or a PAR for a full stop, refuel, and a potty break... id guess in the age of GPS maybe its still part of instrument flying as a last resort.
 
Trent Lamb said:
so, as noted, its been awhile, do tower guys still need to do PAR approaches and do they still need to practice vectoring? I know our IPs in the Army were famous for throwing on the hood and saying "big cloud!" now what? and usually, we'd just dial up a local controlled airfield and either request vectors out of the "weather" or a PAR for a full stop, refuel, and a potty break... id guess in the age of GPS maybe its still part of instrument flying as a last resort.
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When I was doing my IPC with @SbestCFII back in March of 2019 an army outfit had set up at an untoward airport to give their controllers practice (I think they had set up a temporary class D) and we asked them for a PAR and they obliged.
 
Trent Lamb said:
so, as noted, its been awhile, do tower guys still need to do PAR approaches and do they still need to practice vectoring? I know our IPs in the Army were famous for throwing on the hood and saying "big cloud!" now what? and usually, we'd just dial up a local controlled airfield and either request vectors out of the "weather" or a PAR for a full stop, refuel, and a potty break... id guess in the age of GPS maybe its still part of instrument flying as a last resort.
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Very few places still have the equipment. The few that do will usually want to keep controllers current but only when they have extra controllers on staff which may be never depending on the facility. Military better staffed usually than FAA. Generalizing of course.
 
Toledo KTOL is always happy to let you do a PAR or ASR. One thing though, once you ask for one I believe they wright down your tail number. After I did one with my CFII the next couple times I flew into KTOL they asked if I would do another one (controllers currency I guess) You kinda feel bad saying no... so I did a few over a couple months time.
 
AlphaMike said:
Toledo KTOL is always happy to let you do a PAR or ASR. One thing though, once you ask for one I believe they wright down your tail number. After I did one with my CFII the next couple times I flew into KTOL they asked if I would do another one (controllers currency I guess) You kinda feel bad saying no... so I did a few over a couple months time.
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KPSM is the same. I did a PAR once, next time I flew in the asked if I was willing to do another...

Tim

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Never did a PAR, although I have done a few ASR’s. Never found a place that did PAR’s.
 
If you raise your personal mins, your skills will deteriorate.
Maybe establish long range future mins, and back off to that.

personally I think you should remain competent to 1800 rvr as long as there is an alternate meeting both regulatory, and personal minimus.
 
Kritchlow said:
If you raise your personal mins, your skills will deteriorate.
Maybe establish long range future mins, and back off to that.

personally I think you should remain competent to 1800 rvr as long as there is an alternate meeting both regulatory, and personal minimus.
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Tantalum said:
My minimums are whatever the minimums are for the approach/aircraft

About 100 hrs after IR I abandoned my own. Almost feels safer just using the "official" standard
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The problem with this approach is that simulated IMC via foggles or other methods is not nearly as encompassing as real IMC.
Therefore, incremental expansion of your envelop is very likely a prudent thing.

Tim
 
tspear said:
The problem with this approach is that simulated IMC via foggles or other methods is not nearly as encompassing as real IMC.
Therefore, incremental expansion of your envelop is very likely a prudent thing.
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When I got my IR I was lucky enough (for SoCal) that the timing of my weeklong "accelerated" course was in line with a system that parked over much of California for a few weeks.. so I got to snag a ton of actual IMC in a steam gauge Archer. I got lucky again in the SR22 transition a few months later with similar weather and "got to" experience ice. Nothing serious (obviously) but enough to see just how fast it builds up, and how the TKS works

I felt pretty comfortable afterwards going IMC, as a result of this. BUT, to your point, in the last year or so I have had very little actual.. a few minutes here and there through a layer. I'm not sure about others, but for me the big thing with IMC is how much time I spend in it. I am okay following an a localizer and glide slope down to minimums, but I'd rather not spend my entire flight in the clouds. If the layers are thick and the blue sky tops are high then I'm generally not going to fly that day.. at least not currently. 1,000 OVC but tops at 3K.. fine, whatever. but 3,5 BKN, 4,7 BKN, 5,5 OVC with pireps report tops up at 10-12K.. yeah I'll skip that.. or just stay under it
 
Tantalum said:
When I got my IR I was lucky enough (for SoCal) that the timing of my weeklong "accelerated" course was in line with a system that parked over much of California for a few weeks.. so I got to snag a ton of actual IMC in a steam gauge Archer. I got lucky again in the SR22 transition a few months later with similar weather and "got to" experience ice. Nothing serious (obviously) but enough to see just how fast it builds up, and how the TKS works

I felt pretty comfortable afterwards going IMC, as a result of this. BUT, to your point, in the last year or so I have had very little actual.. a few minutes here and there through a layer. I'm not sure about others, but for me the big thing with IMC is how much time I spend in it. I am okay following an a localizer and glide slope down to minimums, but I'd rather not spend my entire flight in the clouds. If the layers are thick and the blue sky tops are high then I'm generally not going to fly that day.. at least not currently. 1,000 OVC but tops at 3K.. fine, whatever. but 3,5 BKN, 4,7 BKN, 5,5 OVC with pireps report tops up at 10-12K.. yeah I'll skip that.. or just stay under it
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I didn't get that much IMC in my IR training, but I got some. Really helped having a CFII in the plane as we went through some moderate rain and the altimeter would jump up and down due to water in the system and then draining out.

Depends upon the clouds, but yeah, I prefer to be above them or between layers. Something flat like some stratus clouds is not bad, but I prefer being in clear air. Anything with a vertical growth to it will be bumpy and not fun.
 
Tantalum said:
When I got my IR I was lucky enough (for SoCal) that the timing of my weeklong "accelerated" course was in line with a system that parked over much of California for a few weeks.. so I got to snag a ton of actual IMC in a steam gauge Archer. I got lucky again in the SR22 transition a few months later with similar weather and "got to" experience ice. Nothing serious (obviously) but enough to see just how fast it builds up, and how the TKS works

I felt pretty comfortable afterwards going IMC, as a result of this. BUT, to your point, in the last year or so I have had very little actual.. a few minutes here and there through a layer. I'm not sure about others, but for me the big thing with IMC is how much time I spend in it. I am okay following an a localizer and glide slope down to minimums, but I'd rather not spend my entire flight in the clouds. If the layers are thick and the blue sky tops are high then I'm generally not going to fly that day.. at least not currently. 1,000 OVC but tops at 3K.. fine, whatever. but 3,5 BKN, 4,7 BKN, 5,5 OVC with pireps report tops up at 10-12K.. yeah I'll skip that.. or just stay under it
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I've been getting a lot of actual but only one approach recently. Fortunately I have access to a Flight 1 simulator that is very close to the real deal to keep my currency. I'll be doing an IPC in few months to see if I need more work, but I think I'll be good.

I also work actively to stay out of the clouds if possible while IFR.
 
PaulS said:
Fortunately I have access to a Flight 1 simulator that is very close to the real deal to keep my currency
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do you find it really helps? Or is mostly just to help with flow? There's a whole psychological element to being "whoosh!" and you are in the clouds. Turbulence hits different, the leans start, etc.

PaulS said:
IPC
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Same. I enjoy doing them from time to time. I worry that the same old approach every time with your friend in the right seat allows you to slowly slip and get sloppy. Plus an IPC automatically gets you 6 months without forcing the 6 approaches and a hold
 
Tantalum said:
do you find it really helps? Or is mostly just to help with flow? There's a whole psychological element to being "whoosh!" and you are in the clouds. Turbulence hits different, the leans start, etc.


Same. I enjoy doing them from time to time. I worry that the same old approach every time with your friend in the right seat allows you to slowly slip and get sloppy. Plus an IPC automatically gets you 6 months without forcing the 6 approaches and a hold
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I think it really helps, flying the airplane is easy, staying on top of the avionics and being where you are supposed to be when you are supposed to be there is more difficult IMO. The only thing this thing doesn't have is motion. You can set turbulence and wind to keep you on your toes. I've only had the leans once in IMC so I fixed onto the instruments, it was fine. Obviously doing the practice in IMC down to my mins would be ideal, but that's not practical for a non pro. I do get way more than 6 approaches in 6 months, probably on the order of 20 or more with the simulator.
 
I've been using an ATD for currency, and one thing I know I'm not getting is practice flying in the system. I need to start doing that, even when it's VMC.
 
EdFred said:
Wha? Huh? Why?
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Most of the time the clouds around here aren't fun to be in, lots of turbulence, although in the summer we do get those smooth clouds that are fine to ride in. But generally in IMC I seem to have passengers and I don't want to deal with vomit.


Palmpilot said:
I've been using an ATD for currency, and one thing I know I'm not getting is practice flying in the system. I need to start doing that, even when it's VMC.
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I'll file at least a couple times a month and request an approach. It's actually pretty good practice at busier airports as they maneuver you around for VFR traffic, not sure the controllers like it though.
 
PaulS said:
Most of the time the clouds around here aren't fun to be in, lots of turbulence, although in the summer we do get those smooth clouds that are fine to ride in. But generally in IMC I seem to have passengers and I don't want to deal with vomit.
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Ah yeah anything with any verticality to it I will try and weave through, or just VFR it underneath if the tops are too high or its too widespread.
 
PaulS said:
Most of the time the clouds around here aren't fun to be in, lots of turbulence, although in the summer we do get those smooth clouds that are fine to ride in. But generally in IMC I seem to have passengers and I don't want to deal with vomit.




I'll file at least a couple times a month and request an approach. It's actually pretty good practice at busier airports as they maneuver you around for VFR traffic, not sure the controllers like it though.
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When my wife is with me I can’t go anywhere without filing ifr anymore. She feels safer. *shrug* gives me plenty of practice with the system.
 
AOPA has a great Personal Minimums checklist on their website. I would advise you to let your trusted instructor help you to set you minimums and stick to them . Adjust late as skill and equipment changes
Congratulations!
 
Salty said:
When my wife is with me I can’t go anywhere without filing ifr anymore. She feels safer. *shrug* gives me plenty of practice with the system.
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I generally file, but when they start jerking you around, and it's vfr I'll cancel.
 
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