Personal Airliner

spiderweb

spiderweb

Final Approach
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Ben
A comment in another thread made me think of this.

A lot of us started out in aviation not only because we love flying, but also because we naively believed we'd not ever again have to fly the airlines!

But now let's say I am very rich, but also very stingy. What private airplane do you think just about meets the requirements to be called a "personal airliner?"

My thoughts, btw, are that it would have to be either a FIKI turbo twin or a turbine single, at minimum.
 
I called my 172 a personal airliner. It's all perspective, even in the 172 I could beat the airlines to any destination in texas, now in the Mooney I can beat the airlines almost anywhere within 800 miles. I can do it with a lot more style, too.
 
now if you mean being able to deal with the same types of weather I would imagine nothingl that doesnt atleast have two things that go woosh instead of vroom.
 
There are no direct commercial flights from Sacramento to Santa Barbara, where my son goes to school and a 2 1/2 hour flight in a Cherokee beats a 7 hour drive any day. Of course GA isn't reliable.... Fortunately, I can usually afford to be flexible on my travel times.
 
I've done very well with flying the Aztec and 310 as personal airliners. Ice? Good, I needed some for my gin & tonic. Storms? No sweat. There has only been one time in 1,600 hours of multi-engine flying that I made a no-go that a turbine would have gotten me through, and so we took a turbine instead. But some folks want the air stair door, in which case you're looking at a Navajo, minimum.

If I'm going cabin class, though, I'm going for a 340 or a 421.
 
I'm thinking a FIKI pressurized twin but then I have been flying over the hills a lot lately.

A Lear 24 is looking pretty good too. I wouldn't want to think about the fuel burn though...
 
DavidWhite said:
I called my 172 a personal airliner. It's all perspective, even in the 172 I could beat the airlines to any destination in texas, now in the Mooney I can beat the airlines almost anywhere within 800 miles. I can do it with a lot more style, too.
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Texas is far easier than the Mid-Atlantic. I love flying in Texas, by the way!
 
King Air 200. It's 12,500 so you don't need a type rating and you can also fly it single pilot if you wish.
 
Key elements for me are FIKI to battle ice and pressurization to get above at least some of the weather.

My choices in order of likely acquistion cost (not necessarily operating cost):
Cessna P210
Beech Baron 58P
Piper Meridian
Socata TBM850
King Air C90

Beyond that you're into jets which are the ultimate personal airliners.
 
Inverted said:
The Lear 55 is a fantastic personal airliner.
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So is a Citation Sovereign. At least Harrison Ford thinks so. :D

2146728.jpg
 
It wouldn't be ANY single.

And it would have to be all weather, so, at minimum it would be a King Air 90.

King Air 200, better.

Lear 31A, 35, 36 better yet.

Falcon 50 if international.
 
An Aero COmmander Turbo is pretty awesome.
 
I have zero personal experience, but a Dassault Falcon 900 is kinda like having your own personal intercontinental jetliner. I like that it has 3 engines. I just don't know how I'd ever be able to afford one. :sad:

What about a TBM-700 or -850? Seems like those are a little more affordable and you could fly it all by yourself instead of having to hire crewmembers.

What are the tradeoffs of a TBM 700 vs. the 850 and how does the TBM compare to a PC-12?

Realistically a Velocity XL, Mooney M20J, or an old Bonanza are probably at the limit of what I can afford. I want, at minimum, four seats.
 
Supercub on tundra tires. It's about going places. There's not an airliner in existence that can go where I want to go without involving a huge fireball..and even then the wreckage will be scattered all over an area considerably larger than the place I want to go.

As for weather capability stuff, if I'm so rich I could afford some monster airliner and all it's associated costs, I would be retired permanently and could wait out any weather that came along in the meantime without someone elses schedule being involved.
 
Both my parents flew charter and cargo. A few years ago both lost their medical at different times. They now own a share in a Citation V. It's a fantastic aircraft for them. They both still like aircraft, but are no longer interested in flying.
 
MSPAviator said:
Realistically a Velocity XL, Mooney M20J, or an old Bonanza are probably at the limit of what I can afford. I want, at minimum, four seats.
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I'm a pretty big fan of the Velocity in particular and experimentals in general, but if you are up north, FIKI is a requirement and that rules out an experimental.
 
ja_user said:
An Aero COmmander Turbo is pretty awesome.
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They are good performers. In my opinion, flying them is rather lackluster.
 
Aerostar at the minimum, but to me it would be the Swearingen SJ-30 because it can get me across the Pacific with reasonable speed and efficiency making a couple stops in some pretty nice spots.
 
Piston twin- 414-421 plenty of room, 190-200 knots, 40GPH, most are FIKI.
Turbine singles- TBM or PC 12.
Turbo props- hard to beat a Conquest II for speed and fuel burn, but King Airs are the kings of the market.
Jets are a dime a dozen, you can buy a single pilot Citation I or II for $500-900K or maybe less. The problem with them is fuel burn and maintenance! :yikes:
 
Piaggio Avanti II for me.
Less than 12,500lbs, less than 3000' takeoff and landing rolls.
Certified for single pilot ops, but cruises at almost 400kts.
Cat II approach certified, nice interior too.

AVANTI.jpg

Piaggio-Avanti-II-Interior.jpg
 
Probably have to be a baby King Air - it's got all the bells and whistles plus a potty.
 
When the Continental TDi 350hp 6 comes out you'll see a lot of cabin planes getting a retrofit, especially if they make a 450hp GTDi. With fuel prices and large economies to be had over similar class turbines, if they prove reliable. Beech is talking about a factory Diesel option for the Bonanza and Baron.
 
Mike I said:
Piaggio Avanti II for me.
Less than 12,500lbs, less than 3000' takeoff and landing rolls.
Certified for single pilot ops, but cruises at almost 400kts.
Cat II approach certified, nice interior too.

AVANTI.jpg

Piaggio-Avanti-II-Interior.jpg
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The Avanti is an enticing airplane though I foresee giving up permanent interior space to a fuel tank, though that could make for a bunk.
 
Henning said:
When the Continental TDi 350hp 6 comes out you'll see a lot of cabin planes getting a retrofit, especially if they make a 450hp GTDi. With fuel prices and large economies to be had over similar class turbines, if they prove reliable. Beech is talking about a factory Diesel option for the Bonanza and Baron.
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The STC options for retrofits will likely be quite expensive. Keep in mind that increasing horsepower requires a great deal of certification work for an STC, which will increase the price further. More likely you'd be seeing derated variants to equal the rated horsepower for the plane.

There's also the weight issue, and I don't know where that will come out. The 421 will make this the easiest since it's already got ~650 lb engines. The 340/402/414/Navajo will make it easier, too, since they have big-bore turbo engines, but you still may be ending up with a significant weight penalty.

Typically, major changes in engine result in failed STCs because the cores aren't usable. If Continental is willing to accept (G)TSIO-520 engines as cores for diesels, then the STCs might be reasonably affordable, and you'll see more people doing them as their engines come up for overhaul. This will help the Twin Cessnas, and potentially the Barons and other Continental-powered aircraft, but it won't help the Navajos and Lycoming-powered aircraft.

The other option is that you'll start to see new aircraft with diesels installed, and this will give buyers a reason to buy new aircraft vs. old, because there will finally be a reason to buy a new airplane.
 
The more I learn about the Avanti, the less I respect it as an airplane. No thanks, I'll stick to something that has better engineering behind it.
 
The Avanti is like some women, I could not afford the up front cost or the maintenance.

......but they sure are sexy.
 
They aren't so sexy when you pay mx costs on them. You are better off buying a jet.
 
N747JB said:
Jets are a dime a dozen, you can buy a single pilot Citation I or II for $500-900K or maybe less. The problem with them is fuel burn and maintenance! :yikes:
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A friend coordinates the maintenance on his company Citation XL. It's truly breathtaking. For a SEL owner, imagine adding two zeroes to every maintenance item your shop calls you about. I don't think they've had any issue has been less than $40k and most end up being six figures. They just went through the hit sections and put a new interior in it and that was $600K.

The velocity of money through them is consistent with their fuel flows! The good news is filling it up is the cheapest part of ownership, so it doesn't feel too bad!
 
Ours was a great plane, even though I didn't fly it much other than for kid trips and a few charity and political trips hauling the Gubner around.

I think the older ones are/were faster, but have never known why. And they are even handier if you happen to have a copy of the military flight manual supplement that provides performance data up to 14k# GTOW. Not that you would ever need to use it, or find yourself a bit heavy when a few extra pax show up for the trip home, or anything similar that we all know doesn't happen in real life.



Gubbins said:
Yes, that has my vote too.
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wabower said:
And they are even handier if you happen to have a copy of the military flight manual supplement that provides performance data up to 14k# GTOW. Not that you would ever need to use it, or find yourself a bit heavy when a few extra pax show up for the trip home, or anything similar that we all know doesn't happen in real life.
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I like the way you think.
 
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