PBOR 2 and medical reform imminent now?

yup. all you have to do is keep sending in your AOPA renewal membership money and it'll pass any day now.............aaaaaaany day now..........
 
Whatever. It's in the FAA bill that is very likely to be passed close to its current form and medical reform has also survived a few other House bills under deliberation. If they were gonna strip it out, it'd of been done by now.
 
One can always hope for the best,but we are talking about the government .
 
Wow! My Third Class expires on the last day of May. I will cross my fingers but I won't hold my breath.
 
The language in the Senate bill isn't the best thing, but its better than what we got. I'm not holding my breath for Congress to do anything other than abolish Obamacare, which they seem to do with some regularity.
 
rolivi said:
Wow! My Third Class expires on the last day of May. I will cross my fingers but I won't hold my breath.
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I was debating the same thing - mine expires the end of June but was debating getting it knocked out sooner. Wonder if I should just wait and cross my fingers?
 
More than ready for this to happen.

Question - after this passes, will there still be a 3rd class medical?
 
bflynn said:
More than ready for this to happen.

Question - after this passes, will there still be a 3rd class medical?
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Most likely. Some of us will still need one for certain ops.
 
ifly4fun said:
I was debating the same thing - mine expires the end of June but was debating getting it knocked out sooner. Wonder if I should just wait and cross my fingers?
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I thought there was a provision that the FAA has up to a year or so to implement it once the bill passes.
 
bflynn said:
Question - after this passes, will there still be a 3rd class medical?
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Yes, because the bill doesn't affect private pilots who are flying aircraft greater than 6000 pounds gross weight or above 18,000 feet, among other things.
 
steingar said:
The language in the Senate bill isn't the best thing, but its better than what we got. I'm not holding my breath for Congress to do anything other than abolish Obamacare, which they seem to do with some regularity.
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Yeah, it's not free reign like some wanted, but it does help those who are likely to lose it in the future but currently have a medical. That's a lot of pilots.

It's also incentive for people who didn't want to jump through the hoops of getting a medical, who may have red flags right now, to go ahead and try knowing now that they only have to do it once for the rest of their lives.

Not perfect but a lot will be helped.
 
rolivi said:
Wow! My Third Class expires on the last day of May. I will cross my fingers but I won't hold my breath.
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Last I heard, if it passes, the FAA has a year to put it into effect. I expect to have to renew one more time in December.
 
Bonchie said:
Yeah, it's not free reign like some wanted, but it does help those who are likely to lose it in the future but currently have a medical. That's a lot of pilots.
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Also, those who recently gave up their medicals (within the last 10 years) due to onerous SI requirements for conditions that wouldn't even require an SI under PBOR2 - which is a pretty broad category.
 
Nothing is imminent when you rely on the most dysfunctional group to control the House in a lot of decades....

Paul Ryan has had a tough couple of months.
The House GOP’s response to Puerto Rico’s debt crisis is stuck, with a big May 1 deadline looming. The leadership’s 2017 budget plan is stalled. And legislation to overhaul the Federal Aviation Administration hasn’t left the runway.

...
Democrats are openly mocking their GOP counterparts, and Republicans grumble — in private so far — that nothing is getting done under Ryan. Like Boehner, Ryan is finding out that becoming speaker is easier than being speaker, at least in the still badly divided House GOP Conference.
The rise of Republican presidential hopeful Donald Trump — which has shocked GOP leaders on Capitol Hill as much as it has Republican heavyweights nationwide — has also injected more uncertainty into the legislative process. With the party base so unsettled, rank-and-file GOP members don’t want to do anything that could alienate pro-Trump voters back home. “Don’t **** anyone off” has become the unofficial mantra for Republicans, which has led to paralysis


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/paul-ryan-house-speaker-republicans-222098#ixzz46UbC9g8T
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook
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You realize the Senate just passed the bill 2 days ago right and now it goes to the House?

The "overhaul" they are probably talking about is the failed push in the House to privatize ATC earlier in the year, not the reauthorization bill that just passed.
 
I hope it does but our favorite AME told me that it's never gonna happen and he's almost always right..
 
I understand we will still have to convince a non-AME doctor to sign a form of some kind saying we are fit to fly. I can see that as being a difficult proposition in the litigious society we live in.
 
somorris said:
I understand we will still have to convince a non-AME doctor to sign a form of some kind saying we are fit to fly. I can see that as being a difficult proposition in the litigious society we live in.
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Why does that doctor have to be a non-AME? Given that they know more about what kinds of conditions really affect safety of flight than non-AMEs, I'd expect a lot of AMEs will provide the required biennial (or whatever interval the final verbiage says) medical review - and be more willing to sign off than non-AMEs to boot (when the airman is not unsafe to fly, that is). I'd certainly not have a problem going to an AME for that service, not having OKC involved in the whole process for most conditions seems to me like a definite advantage over the way things are now.

Of course, it doesn't really improve things for those folks who will still need SIs.
 
azure said:
Why does that doctor have to be a non-AME? Given that they know more about what kinds of conditions really affect safety of flight than non-AMEs, I'd expect a lot of AMEs will provide the required biennial (or whatever interval the final verbiage says) medical review - and be more willing to sign off than non-AMEs to boot (when the airman is not unsafe to fly, that is). I'd certainly not have a problem going to an AME for that service, not having OKC involved in the whole process for most conditions seems to me like a definite advantage over the way things are now.

Of course, it doesn't really improve things for those folks who will still need SIs.
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On the AOPA Forum, Bruce said that all the AMEs he talked to in his area have said they would not sign such a form.

[Edit] :oops: My attempt at paraphrasing was inaccurate, so I'll just quote verbatim:

It has been effectively made into a 4th class medical. In my city, all the MD pilots have already said "no way are they going to sign that".

That leaves the AME as the only place left. And the liability then goes to him. The worst part is, I know what the standards are. And if I can get someone to meet them, they are going to make a third class anyway, I rather just "send it in and get approval". sigh.

As for Mr. Oslick, the Fullerton Calif. docs will do that until the first one has HUGE payout, and then the party's over. It would be very simple for me, as an expert witness, to demolish such a guy. Easier still for the plaintiff's attorney. I have watch it done, and it ain't pretty.

This sausage making factory we call congress is soooo very messed up.​
 
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My doc would sign it. It is too bad the bill doesn't address the liability issue. Any lawyer worth his salt it seems could easily prove the doctor did the "standard" tests and the pilot was OK at the time. Let's face it the 3rd class medicals I have had are less through than my annual physical. No blood test, no ekg, otherwise the same, check reflexes, eyes, ears, nose and throat, heart and general health. The AME's are making a big deal of it because it is a big money loss for them. The AME I used this last time said he wold probably retire we don't live in a big hub city so more than 50% of his work is class 3.
 
Palmpilot said:
Yes, because the bill doesn't affect private pilots who are flying aircraft greater than 6000 pounds gross weight or above 18,000 feet, among other things.
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Exactly. Commercial flying aside, I would need at least a third class to fly the Twin Beech.
 
Palmpilot said:
On the AOPA Forum, Bruce said that all the AMEs he talked to in his area have said they would not sign such a form.
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How is annual inspections on 30, 40 and 50 year old airplanes any different?

I guarantee every part 91 piston airplane out there that is 10 years old or older is out of compliance with at least some OEM recommended (not required by law) inspections and/or component replacement times. If there are no symptoms I'm not going to overhaul a prop every 72 months. I'm not doing an internal inspection on magnetos just because they are passed the 48 month calendar time. These are clear cut & dried instructions issued by the manufacturer just to cover their liability. I can go on and on. Some poor bloke is calling these airworthy every day...

Yet some doctors vow not to "sign the form" which to my knowledge hasn't even been written yet? YGFSM. From what I can see here the idea is to allow doctors to use more "good judgment" in lieu of hard data references. These aircraft are signed off as airworthy under part 91 exercising good judgment which may be completely contrary to manufacturer issued instructions.
 
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For Odin's safe, docs sign all kinds of things. I imagine most docs won't look twice at it.
 
If all I need is a non-AME doc to sign I can ask my ex-wife to do it :)
 
My Doc already signs a note saying he feels my BP is well controlled and I am compliant with my CPAP. I can't see why wouldn't he sign this? The fact I see him every Sunday at church and almost every Thursday morning at our men's breakfast bible study doesn't hurt either I am pretty sure if he thought I was going to fall over dead he would tell me. :D
 
DFH65 said:
My Doc already signs a note saying he feels my BP is well controlled and I am compliant with my CPAP. I can't see why wouldn't he sign this? The fact I see him every Sunday at church and almost every Thursday morning at our men's breakfast bible study doesn't hurt either I am pretty sure if he thought I was going to fall over dead he would tell me. :D
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That refers to a specific condition though. I think the statement the doc has to sign says something to the effect that [he] knows of no condition, that as treated, would render the airman unsafe to fly. A lot more sweeping statement. What level of scrutiny is the doc to subject the airman to in order to not be considered negligent if he signs his name to "I know of no condition..." and the pilot augurs in the next day from a medical incapacitation incident? As long as there is a standard checklist and the doc is really only signing off on that checklist then I don't see why an ordinary doc wouldn't sign it. But exactly what standard is being upheld needs to be clarified.
 
Palmpilot said:
On the AOPA Forum, Bruce said that all the AMEs he talked to in his area have said they would not sign such a form.
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Thanks, I think I recall him saying something to that effect but thought he was referring to non-AME docs, not AMEs. I'll have to look up that thread.
 
The exact text the doctor is required to affirm to is

I certify that I discussed all items on this checklist with the individual during my examination, discussed any medications the individual is taking that could interfere with their ability to safely operate an aircraft or motor vehicle, and performed an examination that included all of the items on this checklist. I certify that I am not aware of any medical condition that, as presently treated, could interfere with the individual's ability to safely operate an aircraft.
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The doctor isn't really out on a limb here. He says that he discussed, examined and that he is not aware of any condition.

Besides, his form has to be carried with you, so it's going to burn up in the post crash fire anyway, right?
 
The 3rd class medical is essentially being replaced by what some have called a 4th class medical. I see no point in trying to get a Dr to sign off a form for me. I will just continue to use my driver's license and fly my ELSA.
 
JohnWF said:
The 3rd class medical is essentially being replaced by what some have called a 4th class medical. I see no point in trying to get a Dr to sign off a form for me. I will just continue to use my driver's license and fly my ELSA.
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The reason it's nothing like the 3rd class is that it will eliminate a ton of disqualifying conditions that currently keep pilots grounded or tied up in years worth of tests. Conditions that usually have zero to do with whether they are actually safe to fly or not.

The problem with the 3rd class was never whether you could pass the vision portion or **** in a cup straight (if you can't do those things then you have no business flying). It was all the other condition related stipulations that the FAA imposed with it as disqualifying for the 3rd class.
 
azure said:
That refers to a specific condition though. I think the statement the doc has to sign says something to the effect that [he] knows of no condition, that as treated, would render the airman unsafe to fly. A lot more sweeping statement. What level of scrutiny is the doc to subject the airman to in order to not be considered negligent if he signs his name to "I know of no condition..." and the pilot augurs in the next day from a medical incapacitation incident? As long as there is a standard checklist and the doc is really only signing off on that checklist then I don't see why an ordinary doc wouldn't sign it. But exactly what standard is being upheld needs to be clarified.
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It's not a general statement. There's a simple checklist the doctor follows that's basically just a physical and he gives you the rundown on your medications and how you should handle them and flying (vs. simply grounding you for being on ADHD meds when you were 12).
 
The requirements in the FAA reauthorization bill are not noticeability more difficult to meet than the requirements of 49 CFR Part 391.41 (DoT Medical for CDL) and it isn't too hard to find someone to sign those. Quite easy actually. My office is near KIAD and a guy in my building is already on board (price is $20 more than the truck, open 24x7, free parking too).

I wish Feinstein's amendment was not there (wait for PBOR-3?) but still, it's a great improvement from the status quo.
 
BTW, the hold up in the House has nothing to do with the 3rd class medical reform. In fact, it's already in the House version of the bill. So now both the Senate passed version and the House's version (which is already out of committee) contain 3rd class medical reform.

The hold up has been that some in the House still want to privatize ATC. But that is losing steam fast. That's why the House's previous version crashed and burned. Nothing to do with medicals.

So unless you think they'll never reauthorize the FAA again, this is going to happen. I don't care what everyone's favorite AME says.

The situation with drones and the front page news they've been making has also become a pressure point to get this bill done. (which is probably one of the least significant parts of the bill IMO, but that's the general public for you).

Volitation said:
Did he give their reasoning?
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Butt-hurt.
 
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Doctors get sued all the time, that's why healthcare costs so much. They have insurance and this isn't going to change anything. I can well believe that AME's wont sign, but I believe many, if not most regular Doc's will.
 
Everskyward said:
Let's discuss this without the partisan bashing.
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Not sure it is partisan bickering. By any measure, this House is the most dysfunctional. They can't pass any legislation other than naming post offices.

These are strange times in DC, the reality of such is that the People's business (see PBOR2) are held hostage.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Not sure it is partisan bickering. By any measure, this House is the most dysfunctional. They can't pass any legislation other than naming post offices.

These are strange times in DC, the reality of such is that the People's business (see PBOR2) are held hostage.
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Unless the measure is actually passing bills. The House has passed 279. the Senate 59. [there were also 17 resolutions which include post office naming things).

But yeah, they're pretty dysfunctional.
 
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