Pathetic....

Have you been drinking this morning?

I must be stuck on stupid this morning. I have no idea what you are trying to say, or what the link means. You bought a nuke sub and want to power your house with it? :confused:

Sarcasm is the worst way to try and get you point across by the way. Ask me how I know! ;)
 
Henning has said he thinks we should dock all the boomers and use their nuclear plants to power our cities and make hydrogen. I can't say how realistic this is, as I suspect that our needs would quickly dwarf the ability of the ships' generators. But I will not claim to know the specifics. Henning may, though I strongly doubt it. I find it hard to believe that the military would share that kind of information.
 
Blame the oil lobbyists. Oil companies have too much power.
 
Those nukes generate less electrical power than you might think. Most of the steam goes to turning the screw. I worked on them 36 years ago and that's all I'm going to say on that subject.
 
steingar said:
I can't say how realistic this is, as I suspect that our needs would quickly dwarf the ability of the ships' generators.
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From what I have seen first hand in the Navy during natural disasters, you are correct. The power draw in most major cities is WAY more than the fleet can produce. This is probably more an issue with infrastructure than what nuclear reactors are capable of, but the bottom line is that right now, it wouldn't really work too well.

About the only thing I have seen work is a ship powering a small town in Maine.
 
I definitely think nuclear power is the way to go - however if you are going to all the trouble of making a nuclear power plant, with all of the infrastructure needed, land, construction... might as well get a reactor that is specifically suited for the task.
 
Sorry, Henning, I don't really do much on Facebook except keep track of family.

But, as for the premise that (1) nuclear power is and continues to be a robust part of a responsible energy strategy, and (2) the US Navy is the most experienced operator of safe and reliable nuclear powerplants -

You got me - I am all for it.

My eyes were first opened to the logic of this approach by a good friend who was a naval officer with a dolphin on his tunic. Makes lots of sense, so (hence) unlikely ever to occur.
 
Geico266 said:
Have you been drinking this morning?

I must be stuck on stupid this morning. I have no idea what you are trying to say, or what the link means. You bought a nuke sub and want to power your house with it? :confused:

Sarcasm is the worst way to try and get you point across by the way. Ask me how I know! ;)
Click to expand...

If you can't read what I wrote on that page and figure it out, my last sentence of the OP is correct.
 
steingar said:
Henning has said he thinks we should dock all the boomers and use their nuclear plants to power our cities and make hydrogen. I can't say how realistic this is, as I suspect that our needs would quickly dwarf the ability of the ships' generators. But I will not claim to know the specifics. Henning may, though I strongly doubt it. I find it hard to believe that the military would share that kind of information.
Click to expand...


Because you're too mentally lazy to figure it out. You can't even see that this is just the seed money to start the hydrogen/water economy we need to have in place in 20 years, and we as a nation can profit from that, and we as individual Americans profit from it because we use the profits from the Hydrogen/Water Utility (with fuel cells you can ship water and electricity all over the world, with only the need to transport the hydrogen component because the atmosphere transports the Oxygen component.

In 20 years, Fresh Water will be the prime commodity on Earth. With 10 Los Angeles class submarines running at <70% power we can replace all the oil we import from Saudi Arabia with equivalent energy output from Hydrogen Fuel Cells.

Everybody dismissed this because it's "too good". It can't be possible.

It's a freaking gift from God for laying down the weapons, and you all spit on it saying it can't happen.

You are correct, IF EVERY ONE OF YOU DOES NOT PUT IN THE EFFORT TO MAKE IT HAPPEN, IT WILL NOT.

You can be a positive force in the universe or you can be a negative one. What you say in life does not make any impression on God. It's what we do in life that settles or fate.

You can be a doer or a complainer. Looks like most people would rather be lazy and just complain.
 
Henning said:
Because you're too mentally lazy to figure it out. You can't even see that this is just the seed money to start the hydrogen/water economy we need to have in place in 20 years, and we as a nation can profit from that, and we as individual Americans profit from it because we use the profits from the Hydrogen/Water Utility (with fuel cells you can ship water and electricity all over the world, with only the need to transport the hydrogen component because the atmosphere transports the Oxygen component.

In 20 years, Fresh Water will be the prime commodity on Earth. With 10 Los Angeles class submarines running at <70% power we can replace all the oil we import from Saudi Arabia with equivalent energy output from Hydrogen Fuel Cells.

Everybody dismissed this because it's "too good". It can't be possible.

It's a freaking gift from God for laying down the weapons, and you all spit on it saying it can't happen.

You are correct, IF EVERY ONE OF YOU DOES NOT PUT IN THE EFFORT TO MAKE IT HAPPEN, IT WILL NOT.

You can be a positive force in the universe or you can be a negative one. What you say in life does not make any impression on God. It's what we do in life that settles or fate.

You can be a doer or a complainer. Looks like most people would rather be lazy and just complain.
Click to expand...

I do not believe you. I do not think that the reactors on board these ships are capable of even a fraction of the necessary power output. I would ask you to prove it, but I would be highly suspicious of any information, as I suspect the details of those reactors are as classified as the boats that carry them. Moreover, I doubt strongly fresh water will become limiting in the US. We have more than enough here.
 
SCCutler said:
Sorry, Henning, I don't really do much on Facebook except keep track of family.

But, as for the premise that (1) nuclear power is and continues to be a robust part of a responsible energy strategy, and (2) the US Navy is the most experienced operator of safe and reliable nuclear powerplants -

You got me - I am all for it.

My eyes were first opened to the logic of this approach by a good friend who was a naval officer with a dolphin on his tunic. Makes lots of sense, so (hence) unlikely ever to occur.
Click to expand...
I'm with you on the above Spike.

Could someone provide some type of hard evidence to suggest that they could even come close to generating the massive quantities of energy Henning says? Some real numbers are needed here.

In order for your idea to be accepted by anyone Henning you need to provide some numbers.
 
bluee said:
Blame the oil lobbyists. Oil companies have too much power.
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NO!!!! DAMNIT!!! Blame YOURSELVES!!! It's your own laziness and in action that allows the greed to take advantage of you. You are duped because of your own laziness.
My plan separates this Utility from industry and the reach of the legislative and executive branch of Government. It is run by a nominated board of trustees who make a very comfortable emeritus salary acting in the Public Trust. They are subject to an extra code of "Trustee Law" administered by the Federal Courts. The Utility profits go to pay the bills for the nation and replace our taxes.

This is basically a way to get rid of taxes by taking the vast excess profits in the energy sector and competing for them on the open market

There is no real added burden on society. Yes, I am trying to "redistribute
the wealth" in the same way that Casinos "redistribute the wealth" to Nevada, only I want a lot more of the profit to go into the treasury.

Just quit being lazy and read it all. Unfortunately the Facebook format of top posting makes that a PITA unless you have everything written before hand and put it into one post like I did with "Nature of God".
 
steingar said:
Again, how is Henning to provide numbers on something that is classified and sensitive?
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I doubt it's that hard to come up with a reasonable educated guess as to their capability. They've been in service long enough, enough people have manned them, details tend to slip out over the years. We don't need single digit accuracy.
 
Henning said:
NO!!!! DAMNIT!!! Blame YOURSELVES!!! It's your own laziness and in action that allows the greed to take advantage of you. You are duped because of your own laziness.
My plan separates this Utility from industry and the reach of the legislative and executive branch of Government. It is run by a nominated board of trustees who make a very comfortable emeritus salary acting in the Public Trust. They are subject to an extra code of "Trustee Law" administered by the Federal Courts. The Utility profits go to pay the bills for the nation and replace our taxes.

This is basically a way to get rid of taxes by taking the vast excess profits in the energy sector and competing for them on the open market

There is no real added burden on society. Yes, I am trying to "redistribute
the wealth" in the same way that Casinos "redistribute the wealth" to Nevada, only I want a lot more of the profit to go into the treasury.

Just quit being lazy and read it all. Unfortunately the Facebook format of top posting makes that a PITA unless you have everything written before hand and put it into one post like I did with "Nature of God".
Click to expand...
Can't you put all the info on the Info page? There is no way people can follow all the posts. You need one logical thought out thing for people to read.
 
Henning said:
Just quit being lazy and read it all. Unfortunately the Facebook format of top posting makes that a PITA unless you have everything written before hand and put it into one post like I did with "Nature of God".
Click to expand...

Better yet, since you seem to have access to privileged information, why don't you first point out where on that relatively useless series of rants to which you linked the average power output of the reactor aboard a nuclear submarine. Citing a source might be a good idea as well.
 
Henning said:
NO!!!! DAMNIT!!! Blame YOURSELVES!!! It's your own laziness and in action that allows the greed to take advantage of you. You are duped because of your own laziness.
My plan separates this Utility from industry and the reach of the legislative and executive branch of Government. It is run by a nominated board of trustees who make a very comfortable emeritus salary acting in the Public Trust. They are subject to an extra code of "Trustee Law" administered by the Federal Courts. The Utility profits go to pay the bills for the nation and replace our taxes.

This is basically a way to get rid of taxes by taking the vast excess profits in the energy sector and competing for them on the open market

There is no real added burden on society. Yes, I am trying to "redistribute
the wealth" in the same way that Casinos "redistribute the wealth" to Nevada, only I want a lot more of the profit to go into the treasury.

Just quit being lazy and read it all. Unfortunately the Facebook format of top posting makes that a PITA unless you have everything written before hand and put it into one post like I did with "Nature of God".
Click to expand...

This is so weird Henning no one will even consider it even if the numbers do work. Sorry man, this is a bridge too far.
 
Geico266 said:
This is so weird Henning no one will even consider it even if the numbers do work. Sorry man, this is a bridge too far.
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If the numbers work people will consider it. Personally I'm glad people like Henning are thinking creatively about our energy problem. That is how problems get solved.

I have no idea if what he writes is viable - as I know jack about it - but I'm certainly willing to listen.
 
Henning put up a thread asking about how many kilowatt hours were in a barrel of oil. I think it was Harry who figured out that you would need 500 ships. We built fewer than 100.
 
I don't think the next revolution will be started on facebook.... If it is, I won't be part of it. Who's got time for serious things when your farmville farm needs tending to? Develop a realistic sim type game where you power homes and cars and shopping malls with subs and still fight your wars... That's the key to facebook's heart..... Seriously, spamming folks with facebook links typically just ****es people off at you personally.
 
Geico266 said:
Have you been drinking this morning?
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No, I was Popeye this morning and decided "I can only stands so much and I can't stand's no more!" and took my can of spinach and I am going to start kicking everyone's a$$ until they quit their damned whining and complaining and casting blame in utterly STUPID DIRECTIONS!!!

I AM SICK OF IT!!! The ENTIRE WORLD IS STUCK IN STUPID!

Start thinking and start acting.

Nations we considered our enemies have used conversations on Facebook to revolutionize their situations for the better this year. It is a time for the excesses of greed to be ended. They are what are ruining our lives, our economies, our social fabric. It is the most destructive force mankind knows.

Greed is a natural phenomenon, a part of human nature. It is up to each and everyone of us to regulate that within us, regardless if our greed centers around money, drugs, food or sex. WE ARE RESPONSIBLE TO MODERATE OURSELVES.

There are issues where an independent person has very little ability to control greed, and our government does a half hearted job of it because of the corrupting forces of greed and our lack of punishing it personally upon the leadership.

The big difference I propose that protects us from that is the "Trustee Law". "Violations of Public Trust" by the trustees will be dealt with corporeally Singapore style for small infractions or capitally through execution. I trust the US Justice system to fairly apply this new code.

I'm trying to form an industry that puts America in the lead of future worldwide energy and water production and exports of those products. I do not want to shut down anything. I just want this industry to compete on the open market, outside of political and industrial influence. An industry that will fund our nation and relieve us, the people, of the burden of paying taxes with the money you already spend to buy Roman Abromovich, his billion dollar Yacht and Middle East princes private A380s. That is YOUR ENERGY DOLLAR BUYING THAT STUFF!!!

I want that dollar to fund America, and I want to do it with money that we ALREADY SPENT!!! WE ALREADY OWN THE ENERGY TO DO THIS!!!
IT'S PART OF THE NATIONAL DEBT THAT IS CRIPPLING US!!!

This idea is brilliant in every direction but not one person will post on Facebook even a simple "That's brilliant, we need to make this happen."

We can only make this happen with overwhelming popular support.

There is a way to run Nuke safely, the Navy has been doing it for Decades. Hyman Rickover was brilliant and a hell of a man and stood behind his convictions of absolute safety, and our nation and world has benefited from his brilliance and conviction. Even Chernobyl which went as bad as it can get and is impossible to repeat in modern designs did not have the outcome the fear mongers of the 70s predicted.

I ask that everybody do everything in their power to make this happen. The only way for this to work is a "Grass Roots" campaign. We have got to stop being lazy and waiting for somebody else to do something and then complaining when it doesn't happen.

THE NATION, WORLD AND MANKIND ARE IN THE CONDITION THEY ARE IN BECAUSE OF OUR LAZINESS, EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US.

TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR LIVES AND THE LIVES OF THE GENERATIONS YOU CHOSE TO PRODUCE!

There are "doers" and there are "Whiners", which are you?
 
So let me get this straight since Henning likes to talk in code and pretend to have all the answers. The plan is to park all of the nuke boats close to harbors and power the cities with them? Making hydrogen? Seriously, that cannot be the plan.

Storms, corrosion, maintenance, terrorists looking at a stationary soft nuke target. What could possible go wrong with this picture? :confused:
 
steingar said:
Again, how is Henning to provide numbers on something that is classified and sensitive?
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I am not a nuclear guy, but AFAIK, the amount of electrical power that can be generated by a nuclear ship or sub is not classified.

But as I mentioned above, the bigger issue is the infrastructure. What we have in most cities is absolutely freakin' archaic....particularly in places like SoCal where we need power the most. Based on what I have seen in the Navy and particularly as a Chief Engineer is that we simply cannot plug into and power the existing grids. To do so would require extensive upgrading of the systems on land and who is gonna pay for that as the great budget committee in the sky looks for programs to slash and burn?
 
steingar said:
Henning put up a thread asking about how many kilowatt hours were in a barrel of oil. I think it was Harry who figured out that you would need 500 ships. We built fewer than 100.
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I came up with 10 LA class subs to provide the equivalent work from hydrogen fuel cells to replace the oil from KSA.

Besides, have you not heard of the concept of "Seed Money"? This is what you start with. Microsoft did not start at the size they are now.
I want to compete for energy sector and water $$$ against present supplier industry to grow it.

I have the better product. The product I was promissed a decade ago that has been shelved for lack of hydrogen. The lack of hydrogen is purely a factor of greed in industry. If Industry had come to the table 10 years ago, I wouldn't be posting this

If you prefer to live in the world as it is, filthy, fighting, and unfulfilled, please, feel free to keep talking about how it can't work, because that's the only way you can assure that it won't and we won't have a brighter, prosperous and cleaner future that will have energy and fresh water for all.

God is giving you a gift horse of seed money for retiring the weapons of war, and you're standing there looking at its teeth...:mad2:

Like I said, pathetic.
 
TMetzinger said:
Hang on... I thought it turned a turbine which generated... wait for it.... electricty, which turned the screw!
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Actually no....a nulcear plant produces one thing - STEAM. That steam is used to power propulsion turbines which turn the screws like any other steam ship and turbine generators which provide the electricity for the ship.

On a CVN you actually have two different engineering departments. You have a Reactors department whose only job is to run the plant and provide the steam. Then you have the engineering department who is responsible for everything else the steam touches.
 
We had a colloquium about this a few years ago. I haven't followed whatever recent developments there may have been, but at the time the cost of extracting hydrogen from water by electrolysis was several times that of the useful energy returned by burning it. Yes, generating the needed electricity from fission could cut that cost drastically if the infrastructure was in place, probably by enough to make it cost effective (though I haven't done the math) -- but if so, then you are really talking about turning to nuclear energy as the dominant energy source. That's not a technological problem so much as a political one.
 
azure said:
We had a colloquium about this a few years ago. I haven't followed whatever recent developments there may have been, but at the time the cost of extracting hydrogen from water by electrolysis was several times that of the useful energy returned by burning it. Yes, generating the needed electricity from fission could cut that cost drastically if the infrastructure was in place, probably by enough to make it cost effective (though I haven't done the math) -- but if so, then you are really talking about turning to nuclear energy as the dominant energy source. That's not a technological problem so much as a political one.
Click to expand...

Bingo, atomic energy is scary:mad2:
 
Fearless Tower said:
Actually no....a nulcear plant produces one thing - STEAM. That steam is used to power propulsion turbines which turn the screws like any other steam ship and turbine generators which provide the electricity for the ship.

On a CVN you actually have two different engineering departments. You have a Reactors department whose only job is to run the plant and provide the steam. Then you have the engineering department who is responsible for everything else the steam touches.
Click to expand...


If you were there, you have a good job coming your way, because sub-vets are going to be the ones who create the core workforce required to start this.
 
Henning,

I'd certainly read it, but I officially am off of Fb except for a business page now. Too much junk from some quarters and I found I was wasting a lot of time when I analyzed it.
If the idea has merit, I'm for it.

Ryan
 
Henning said:
If you were there, you have a good job coming your way, because sub-vets are going to be the ones who create the core workforce required to start this.
Click to expand...

Problem is I'm not a Nuc....just a straight stick Surface Warfare dude.
 
Henning said:
With 10 Los Angeles class submarines running at <70% power we can replace all the oil we import from Saudi Arabia with equivalent energy output from Hydrogen Fuel Cells.
Click to expand...

And that number has been shown to be low by a considerable factor on another thread, with a count of >500 if you use 100% conversion efficiency, and >2,000 using your more realistic 25% efficiency number.
 
Skylane81E said:
Bingo, atomic energy is scary:mad2:
Click to expand...

Only if you agree to live in fear. The Oil companies love you to be in fear, it means more billion dollar yachts and private A380s.

Reality is, we're now at the point where the hippies will believe in Nuclear Energy, I know this because I convinced every Australian Hippie I met, and Andi (my GF in Aus) was from a hippie commune with hippie parents and hippie friends, and I convinced all but her mom, and that was only because she didn't like me taking the role of "Chief and Trusted Adviser of Andi" away from her.

I can sell the nation on nuclear energy, I just need to get on a broader forum to do it. I'm trying Facebook, but the reaction is pitiful. If I can get on Larry King, I can sell it.
 
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