Path to TXi cockpit

TimRF79

TimRF79

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Display name:
Tim
My plane (Viking) has currently all steam gauges with a 430WAAS and 330.
If my wish is to ultimately have a TXi as a primary and no steam gauges, what is the best path to get there?
Including engine monitoring, etc.
 
Uh?
A G500 TXi is $16k; where do the other $69k come from?
 
7” TXI $10,500
G5 (backup)$2500
Certified engine monitor (JPI 900, etc) $5000
So $18,000, figure $7000 installation.
Looking at $25000
Lose the 6 pack and vacuum system.
I would add GDL84 for ADSB in, Flightstream 210 for flight plan transfer and ADSB data to your iPad.
Another $10000 with installation...$35000 total.

What about an autopilot?
 
My plane currently has a Century II autopilot, works quite well.
Can the 10.6" TXI not be used as an engine monitor?

I have a GDL52 with Sirius XM and ADS-B in, can this be used as an input?
 
Double check the new Garmin tech will play nice with the older auto pilots.
 
Installing just a bare G500TXi, no options, costs $30K installed. It’s major surgery. Once you’re into the old wiring, back-up instruments, panel cutting, etc. the costs go straight up.

Who wants a new aluminum panel on the left and the old plastic on the right side? More money, more labor.

Virtually the entire Av suite is removed to do this upgrade. Why would you put back old radios that don’t talk to the G500? Pay all that labor for old gear?

Get 3 quotes from reputable Av shops and ask what the typical install costs happen to be.

The G500TXi is really cool, just no way to Ease into it.
 
First step is getting quotes from dealers. Probably all of them will want a ton of money up front (I would) when you sign the agreement.
 
bnt83 said:
First step is getting quotes from dealers. Probably all of them will want a ton of money up front (I would) when you sign the agreement.
Click to expand...
If there is no stepping towards it, there is no point in getting quotes.
In case there is the possiblity of stepping tpwards it, let's say:
1. Get 2 G5's
2. Get xyz
3. Get 10.6" 500 TXi

Then it would make sense to get quotes along the way (per step)
 
TimRF79 said:
If there is no stepping towards it, there is no point in getting quotes.
In case there is the possiblity of stepping tpwards it, let's say:
1. Get 2 G5's
2. Get xyz
3. Get 10.6" 500 TXi

Then it would make sense to get quotes along the way (per step)
Click to expand...


The only logical and most economic step is do everything at once. If you don't mind paying to R&R the interior two or three times, flying the airplane to the shop multiple times, getting multiple rides home then by all means you can break it up. The TXi is a display system essentially so you can buy GTN, GTX, GMA up front but you'll still end up paying for some the same work over when installing the TXi.

I would not install two G5s with the plan of installing the TXi, they aren't even the same architecture so its really money down the drain in a whole lot of labor to do that.
 
bnt83 said:
I would not install two G5s with the plan of installing the TXi, they aren't even the same architecture so its really money down the drain in a whole lot of labor.
Click to expand...
I thought you need at least one G5 as a backup to a TXi (or you need two TXi's)
 
Garmin recently announced the ability to use the G5 as a back-up to the G500, but you can also use steam gauges as well. My G500 deck has an ASI, attitude indicator and altimeter that back it up.
I could replace all those with a G5, but not likely to unless something expensive breaks. No reason at all to have 2 G5's if you have a TXi as primary. The advice you are getting is good. You'll end up paying a lot more in total doing the incremental steps than just doing it all at once. And you'll get a better and more integrated result.
 
Hang 4 said:
Garmin recently announced the ability to use the G5 as a back-up to the G500, but you can also use steam gauges as well. My G500 deck has an ASI, attitude indicator and altimeter that back it up.
I could replace all those with a G5, but not likely to unless something expensive breaks. No reason at all to have 2 G5's if you have a TXi as primary. The advice you are getting is good. You'll end up paying a lot more in total doing the incremental steps than just doing it all at once. And you'll get a better and more integrated result.
Click to expand...
OK,
then I guess the question is if I want 2 G5's or one 500TXi?
In that case we are looking at $5k spend versus $20k spend?
 
TimRF79 said:
OK,
then I guess the question is if I want 2 G5's or one 500TXi?
In that case we are looking at $5k spend versus $20k spend?
Click to expand...

I'm interested in that debate as well.

Perhaps along with that, you need to ask, what features does the TXi have over the G5 and do you need them?
 
TimRF79 said:
OK,
then I guess the question is if I want 2 G5's or one 500TXi?
In that case we are looking at $5k spend versus $20k spend?
Click to expand...

Apples and oranges, the 2 G5s don’t replace altimeter, airspeed indicators. And not sure if T&B and vertical speed indicators are still necessary.
 
teejayevans said:
Apples and oranges, the 2 G5s don’t replace altimeter, airspeed indicators. And not sure if T&B and vertical speed indicators are still necessary.
Click to expand...
If you have G500 as your primary, the G5 can be a back-up for all of those, based on latest Garmin announcement. The G5 Specific part here;

Approved as a standby: G5 electronic flight instrument

The ever-popular G5 electronic flight instrument will soon be approved as a standby flight instrument when paired with the G500 TXi or G500 flight displays. In doing so, any adjustments made to heading bugs, altitude select, airspeed bugs, as well as the barometric pressure setting are automatically synced from the G500 TXi or G500 displays to the G51. Flight director and autopilot mode annunciations from the GFC 500 can also be viewed across all displays, including G5. Over 600 aircraft will be approved for the installation of G5 as a standby flight instrument alongside the G500 TXi or G500 flight displays
 
teejayevans said:
Apples and oranges, the 2 G5s don’t replace altimeter, airspeed indicators. And not sure if T&B and vertical speed indicators are still necessary.
Click to expand...
It was my understanding that the with dual G5's they will show you:
Attitude, Altitude, Airspeed, Ground Speed, Slip/Skid, Course Deviation, Magnetic Heading, True Course
 
TimRF79 said:
It was my understanding that the with dual G5's they will show you:
Attitude, Altitude, Airspeed, Ground Speed, Slip/Skid, Course Deviation, Magnetic Heading, True Course
Click to expand...

Yes, but you can't ditch the round gauges, as most of those are "advisory" only. The attitude and heading are the only things that the G5 is allowed to be primary on. And, on the heading, it won't replace your whiskey compass, even though it has a magnetometer and doesn't need north dialed in. Fortunately, ditching the AI and DG on most planes is enough to ditch the vacuum, which is exactly what I'm doing with my plane right now.

Note: $5K is parts only. Closer to $10-12K by the time you've got labor in, especially if you're ditching vacuum, as there's engine work, too. The magnetometer is the hardest part to install, as it generally goes out into an electrically quiet part of the wing and has to have all that wiring run back to the panel.
 
arnoha said:
Yes, but you can't ditch the round gauges, as most of those are "advisory" only. The attitude and heading are the only things that the G5 is allowed to be primary on. And, on the heading, it won't replace your whiskey compass, even though it has a magnetometer and doesn't need north dialed in. Fortunately, ditching the AI and DG on most planes is enough to ditch the vacuum, which is exactly what I'm doing with my plane right now.
Click to expand...

Think you can ditch them if you are using it to back up a G500 which has all of that as primary. Garmin announcements aren't the clearest in the world, but that's my understanding with the latest round of updates recently announced and discussed in another thread. That's why if the OP is serious about the TXi, he really needs to understand what he does and doesn't need and what's the best path to replace them.
 
NordicDave said:
Installing just a bare G500TXi, no options, costs $30K installed. It’s major surgery. Once you’re into the old wiring, back-up instruments, panel cutting, etc. the costs go straight up.

Who wants a new aluminum panel on the left and the old plastic on the right side? More money, more labor.

Virtually the entire Av suite is removed to do this upgrade. Why would you put back old radios that don’t talk to the G500? Pay all that labor for old gear?

Get 3 quotes from reputable Av shops and ask what the typical install costs happen to be.

The G500TXi is really cool, just no way to Ease into it.
Click to expand...

Whoa. 30k installed for base unit? Sounds high to me. There has to be more into this price.
 
Hang 4 said:
If you have G500 as your primary, the G5 can be a back-up for all of those, based on latest Garmin announcement. The G5 Specific part here;

Approved as a standby: G5 electronic flight instrument

The ever-popular G5 electronic flight instrument will soon be approved as a standby flight instrument when paired with the G500 TXi or G500 flight displays. In doing so, any adjustments made to heading bugs, altitude select, airspeed bugs, as well as the barometric pressure setting are automatically synced from the G500 TXi or G500 displays to the G51. Flight director and autopilot mode annunciations from the GFC 500 can also be viewed across all displays, including G5. Over 600 aircraft will be approved for the installation of G5 as a standby flight instrument alongside the G500 TXi or G500 flight displays
Click to expand...

The OP implied using dual g5s as primary, no 500. I’ll never understand regulations, how something can be a backup but not primary?
 
GLMS_NC said:
Whoa. 30k installed for base unit? Sounds high to me. There has to be more into this price.
Click to expand...

This seems about right to me. The box itself is $16,000. Assuming you're using existing instruments as backup, you already have a WAAS GPS source compatible with the TXi, and your other avionics are suitably compatible, there's still the matter of:

* Brand new panel, generally custom, since the TXI is so different in shape.
* Complete rewire of the panel.
* Redo static and pitot lines.
* Redo power and breakers in the panel.
* Paperwork
* Install magnetometer in wing

I would expect around 100 hours of work. So, about $10K for labor, a $16K box, say $1K for panel, and $500 in random parts, that totals $27,500. Put a little space in the budget for the unexpected, and just a single TXi alone is $30,000. Of course, need anything else done, and the price just climbs. Need WAAS GPS? $15-20K. Adding ADS-B at the same time? $10K. Autopilot? $20K Engine monitor TXi? $15K G5 backup? $5K It would not be hard to reach $100K or more on a get-everything panel redo.
 
:yeahthat:

Most owners say... You mean you have to rewire the whole panel... and a new GTN-650 is labor free, and a new stereo audio panel that remote tunes form the EFIS is also labor include. "Honey.... I'm tapping the home equity loan"

Why pay to reinstall the old stuff?
 
Omg these costs are not right to me! A TXi is easier to install a G500. Ads-b 10k? For single engine?

To each his own I guess.
 
GLMS_NC said:
Omg these costs are not right to me! A TXi is easier to install a G500. Ads-b 10k? For single engine?

To each his own I guess.
Click to expand...

TXi is a G500. Did you mean G5? If so, a dual G5 setup and a G500 are very similar in their install complexity.

ADS-B is not $10K for a minimal installation. However, no one would pair a minimal ADS-B Out installation with a G500 TXi. Instead, that number is for a GTX-345 with In and Out and adding the wiring back to the GTN-750 you've got as well. (Because, of course you do, with this setup.) That needs a new antenna as well. Looks like it's a little less than that, but in the same ballpark: https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/cost-of-garmin-345-installed.103954/

EDIT: Also, I've noticed prices for labor are coming up as we get closer to ADS-B doomsday. So...round up from that thread a year ago.
 
FYI, for reference, I recently did much quoting for this. I am currently, in my 172:

* Dropping in a GTN-750, GTX-345, G5 AI, G5 HSI, and a USB-6A.
* Removing KLN 94, KMD 550, KT 76C, KX 155A and indicator, vacuum AI, vacuum DG, two vacuum pumps.

The quote for all that was 128 hours.
 
A word of caution about quotes. If you are doing major/multiple panel upgrades (a big job) find out if the shop honors the quoted price or if it is considered an "estimate"
It is easy to blow way, way past a low ball quote after you are in the panel.
For instance, a recent upgrade wanted to replace the nulites with fiber optics...... $1,000
Unless you have a firm will, it is easy to say "while you are in there".........
 
IF you want a glass panel in stages to easy the pocket book and spread the cost over time have you considered the Aspens ?
You can install one unit at a time, purchase the MFDs as financing becomes available. Pre- wire the harnesses so it becomes minimal labor costs (repetitive opening the panel costs $$$) and Aspen supports its customers the new Pro MAX is plug in compatible (virtually ZERO install costs)
 
GLMS_NC said:
No sir. G500 vs G500TXi.

Boxes and wiring harnesses needed for each are very different. I am not talking G5 here.
Click to expand...

OK, I'm not well versed on the differences, but I can say that for all three the basics of what they connect to on the rest of your plane is about the same. They need connections to your GPS/NAV/COM, your autopilot, your pitot/static, a magnetometer, power, transponder, and audio panel. If you're going fancy with the TXi, there's also a bunch of engine instruments to connect.

I doubt the internal connections between the boxes for the given system would add or subtract more than 10 hours of work, since they should be highly standardized and inherently compatible. But, I guess I'll leave it to folks who know more about it than I to comment, since I guess I'm now mostly talking out my butt; we've left my area of experience.
 
arnoha said:
OK, I'm not well versed on the differences, but I can say that for all three the basics of what they connect to on the rest of your plane is about the same. They need connections to your GPS/NAV/COM, your autopilot, your pitot/static, a magnetometer, power, transponder, and audio panel. If you're going fancy with the TXi, there's also a bunch of engine instruments to connect.

I doubt the internal connections between the boxes for the given system would add or subtract more than 10 hours of work, since they should be highly standardized and inherently compatible. But, I guess I'll leave it to folks who know more about it than I to comment, since I guess I'm now mostly talking out my butt; we've left my area of experience.
Click to expand...

They both do the same thing, but the boxes used to accomplish the end result are quite different, and as such, the wiring is different. One module simply snaps onto the back of the TXi unit and it’s a data plug for connectivity, where a harness is needed in the G500 for a separate box mounted somewhere. And there are more boxes to mount with the ADC and AHRS modules. Way more than 10hours. I worked on a G500 last week and was comparing wiring installed to thr TXI unit and was impressed how much smaller everything is.

EIS is a different animal all together. Kudos to Garming for getting that data into the Pilot app. I can’t believe FF or FlyQ and Aspen hasn’t struck up a relationship with Insight of JPI and got that data into their product. Creative juices flowing at Garmin I have to say.
 
GLMS_NC said:
They both do the same thing, but the boxes used to accomplish the end result are quite different, and as such, the wiring is different. One module simply snaps onto the back of the TXi unit and it’s a data plug for connectivity, where a harness is needed in the G500 for a separate box mounted somewhere. And there are more boxes to mount with the ADC and AHRS modules. Way more than 10hours. I worked on a G500 last week and was comparing wiring installed to thr TXI unit and was impressed how much smaller everything is.

EIS is a different animal all together. Kudos to Garming for getting that data into the Pilot app. I can’t believe FF or FlyQ and Aspen hasn’t struck up a relationship with Insight of JPI and got that data into their product. Creative juices flowing at Garmin I have to say.
Click to expand...

Is the TXi also significantly lighter in its final installation vs. the original G500? Sounds like it might be.
 
Different twist on this question...

I already have a G500, 750/650, etc but the original analog engine gauges. Adding a JPI 930 is about $12K installed. Would I do better to install the 930, or should I put this money towards upgrading my G500 to a TXi and going with Garmin’s engine monitoring?
 
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