Passenger Carrying Currency Expiration?

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danielr

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DanielR
Just got my Private Pilot's License! The carrying of passengers is my main focus, as my continuation of receiving other certifications and ratings will exempt me from having to take a biannual flight review.

I am familiar with the rules regarding the 3 takeoffs and landings within the preceding 90 days (and to a full stop at night, and with a tail-wheel airplane).

My question is, what would happen, should your passenger currency 'lapse', because you did not complete your 3 takeoffs and landings within 90 days? Does this mean after 90 days you have to go up with an instructor and do them? Or can you still complete the 3 takeoffs and landings after the 90 day period?

To my knowledge, nothing is mentioned in the FAR's regarding this.

Thanks.
 
AFAIK, go up solo, make 3 and you are good to go again with Pax.

Cheers
 
danielr said:
Just got my Private Pilot's License! The carrying of passengers is my main focus, as my continuation of receiving other certifications and ratings will exempt me from having to take a biannual flight review.

I am familiar with the rules regarding the 3 takeoffs and landings within the preceding 90 days (and to a full stop at night, and with a tail-wheel airplane).

My question is, what would happen, should your passenger currency 'lapse', because you did not complete your 3 takeoffs and landings within 90 days? Does this mean after 90 days you have to go up with an instructor and do them? Or can you still complete the 3 takeoffs and landings after the 90 day period?

To my knowledge, nothing is mentioned in the FAR's regarding this.

Thanks.
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You go up and do them by yourself. You can even do them while your pax wait on the ground.
 
danielr said:
Just got my Private Pilot's License! The carrying of passengers is my main focus, as my continuation of receiving other certifications and ratings will exempt me from having to take a biannual flight review.

I am familiar with the rules regarding the 3 takeoffs and landings within the preceding 90 days (and to a full stop at night, and with a tail-wheel airplane).

My question is, what would happen, should your passenger currency 'lapse', because you did not complete your 3 takeoffs and landings within 90 days? Does this mean after 90 days you have to go up with an instructor and do them? Or can you still complete the 3 takeoffs and landings after the 90 day period?

To my knowledge, nothing is mentioned in the FAR's regarding this.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Obviously thats false. Anyways all you would have to do is 3 T/O and 3 Landings solo. No instructor needed.
 
danielr said:
Just got my Private Pilot's License! The carrying of passengers is my main focus, as my continuation of receiving other certifications and ratings will exempt me from having to take a biannual flight review.

I am familiar with the rules regarding the 3 takeoffs and landings within the preceding 90 days (and to a full stop at night, and with a tail-wheel airplane).

My question is, what would happen, should your passenger currency 'lapse', because you did not complete your 3 takeoffs and landings within 90 days? Does this mean after 90 days you have to go up with an instructor and do them? Or can you still complete the 3 takeoffs and landings after the 90 day period?

To my knowledge, nothing is mentioned in the FAR's regarding this.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Right in the next paragraph...

2. For the purpose of meeting the requirements of paragraph (a)(1) of this section, a person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft under day VFR or day IFR, provided no persons or property are carried on board the aircraft, other than those necessary for the conduct of the flight
 
alfadog said:
Right in the next paragraph...

2. For the purpose of meeting the requirements of paragraph (a)(1) of this section, a person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft under day VFR or day IFR, provided no persons or property are carried on board the aircraft, other than those necessary for the conduct of the flight
Click to expand...

Ahh, I see it now.

So this paragraph basically says I can go up and do the landings and takeoffs by myself, in order to satisfy the passenger currency requirements, correct?

But then why would the FAA propose the 90 day limit if it can (at the end of the day) be surpassed and then made up?

Know what I'm saying? The FAR's say "within the preceding 90 days". But you are saying if I go past 90 days, I can just go up by myself and still do them? I don't see the point of the 90 day limit in this case.

Thanks for the help and speedy replies. Greatly appreciate it.
 
If you get too rusty after 90 days you will only hurt/kill yourself and not a Pax in addition. It's the FAA protecting who might be harmed by a rusty pilot.

Cheers
 
danielr said:
Know what I'm saying? The FAR's say "within the preceding 90 days". But you are saying if I go past 90 days, I can just go up by myself and still do them? I don't see the point of the 90 day limit in this case.
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It's because the FAA cares more about your passengers than they do about you.

Seriously.
 
Ron Levy said:
It's because the FAA cares more about your passengers than they do about you.

Seriously.
Click to expand...

That I understand. But unless they impose some sort of penalty or 'slap on the wrist', what is keeping pilots from going past 90 days and THEN doing the T/O and Landings?

I'm not among the many that would go past 90 days: this question is strictly for informational purposes and my understanding.
 
danielr said:
That I understand. But unless they impose some sort of penalty or 'slap on the wrist', what is keeping pilots from going past 90 days and THEN doing the T/O and Landings?

I'm not among the many that would go past 90 days: this question is strictly for informational purposes and my understanding.
Click to expand...

Nothing is keeping you from going past 90 days except your own concern about your proficiency since the FAA only cares you don't fly passengers if you go past 90 days.

This isn't hard to understand. Past 90 days no Pax but you can still fly yourself.

Cheers
 
danielr said:
But unless they impose some sort of penalty or 'slap on the wrist', what is keeping pilots from going past 90 days and THEN doing the T/O and Landings?
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There is nothing wrong, nor illegal about that. Happens all the time. That is why the reg is written the way it is. So you as PIC can go get "current" again.
 
X3 Skier said:
Nothing is keeping you from going past 90 days except your own concern about your proficiency since the FAA only cares you don't fly passengers if you go past 90 days.

This isn't hard to understand. Past 90 days no Pax but you can still fly yourself.

Cheers
Click to expand...

Recap: within 90 days, you can carry passengers.

Past 90 days: only yourself, unless you do three more takeoffs and landings by yourself.

Got it, thanks.
 
Keep in mind that for the 3 in 90 days at night, you also have to do 3 take-offs as well as the 3 landings, and those ops must be at least an hour after sunset and at least an hour before sunrise.

To give an example of how this works, say sunset is at 5:00PM. If you takeoff at 5:59PM and do 3 stop and go's you'd be 1 night takeoff short of meeting your obligations since you'd have 2 night takeoffs and 3 night landings.

Being night current is sufficient for carrying passengers during the day as well. 61.57.a doesn't differentiate as long as there were 3 landings in 90 days.

I highly recommend getting comfortable flying at night, book some extra instructor time if you need it. The air is smooth and the world looks nothing like it does during the day.
 
airheadpenguin said:
Keep in mind that for the 3 in 90 days at night, you also have to do 3 take-offs as well as the 3 landings, and those ops must be at least an hour after sunset and at least an hour before sunrise.

To give an example of how this works, say sunset is at 5:00PM. If you takeoff at 5:59PM and do 3 stop and go's you'd be 1 night takeoff short of meeting your obligations since you'd have 2 night takeoffs and 3 night landings.

Being night current is sufficient for carrying passengers during the day as well. 61.57.a doesn't differentiate as long as there were 3 landings in 90 days.

I highly recommend getting comfortable flying at night, book some extra instructor time if you need it. The air is smooth and the world looks nothing like it does during the day.
Click to expand...

Thanks, appreciate it.

From the only two night flights that I had (to receive the proper requirements for Private), I was both anxious and amazed. At least next time I'll be able to look around a bit more.
 
2. For the purpose of meeting the requirements of paragraph (a)(1) of this section, a person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft under day VFR or day IFR, provided no persons or property are carried on board the aircraft, other than those necessary for the conduct of the flight
Click to expand...

Uh oh, I forgot to remove the spare headsets and the little bin in the back where I keep the windshield cleaning supplies and other accessories! Should I be looking over my shoulder for the FAA? :hairraise: :yikes: :eek: :goofy:
 
spinfire said:
Uh oh, I forgot to remove the spare headsets and the little bin in the back where I keep the windshield cleaning supplies and other accessories! Should I be looking over my shoulder for the FAA? :hairraise: :yikes: :eek: :goofy:
Click to expand...

Scooby-Doo-tv-06.jpg
 
spinfire said:
Uh oh, I forgot to remove the spare headsets and the little bin in the back where I keep the windshield cleaning supplies and other accessories! Should I be looking over my shoulder for the FAA? :hairraise: :yikes: :eek: :goofy:
Click to expand...

"Just because you are paranoid does not mean they are not out to get you."
 
spinfire said:
Uh oh, I forgot to remove the spare headsets and the little bin in the back where I keep the windshield cleaning supplies and other accessories! Should I be looking over my shoulder for the FAA? :hairraise: :yikes: :eek: :goofy:
Click to expand...

Commercial ops.
 
danielr said:
Ahh, I see it now.

So this paragraph basically says I can go up and do the landings and takeoffs by myself, in order to satisfy the passenger currency requirements, correct?
Click to expand...
Not that paragraph. That paragraph really just deals with the multi-pilot situation.

It's the base paragraph that lets you go. Take a step back: 90 day currency only applies to carrying passengers. There is no landing currency regulation that deals with flight without passengers. So there is not one word in the FAR that prohibits you from going up by yourself so long as the other currency requirements (FR, medical, etc) are met. No passengers, no passenger currency required.

But then why would the FAA propose the 90 day limit if it can (at the end of the day) be surpassed and then made up?

Know what I'm saying? The FAR's say "within the preceding 90 days". But you are saying if I go past 90 days, I can just go up by myself and still do them? I don't see the point of the 90 day limit in this case.
Click to expand...
Because the regulation only cares about passengers. And all the FAA wants is that you have made three takeoffs and landings within 90 days before carrying passengers.

You seem to be reading a general landing currency rule into it that is not there. Maybe the problem is the common thinking of it as a "landing currency" rule. It's not. It's a "passenger-carrying" rule.
 
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if you are shooting to only do 3 t/o and landings in 90 days maybe you should not carry passenger or even fly solo.
 
cirrusmx said:
if you are shooting to only do 3 t/o and landings in 90 days maybe you should not carry passenger or even fly solo.
Click to expand...

Not correct. The question I asked was strictly for informational purposes.

midlifeflyer said:
You seem to be reading a general landing currency rule into it that is not there. Maybe the problem is the common thinking of it as a "landing currency" rule. It's not. It's a "passenger-carrying" rule.
Click to expand...

I agree. Taking a step back, the rule does make more sense. My question dealt with getting back up to requirements if you went past 90 days, but all you would do then is go up and do them by yourself.

Everything's a lot more clear now. :yesnod:
 
danielr said:
I agree. Taking a step back, the rule does make more sense. My question dealt with getting back up to requirements if you went past 90 days, but all you would do then is go up and do them by yourself.

Everything's a lot more clear now. :yesnod:
Click to expand...

You could do a BFR on Dec 1, 2011, then not get near an airplane til Dec. 31, 2013 at which point three takeoffs and landings would let you carry passengers til one hour after sunset, or three full stop TO/Ldgs after dark would allow you to take passengers up until midnight. (Assuming current medical)

May not be wise, but it's legal.
 
A BFR does nothing for passenger carrying (except it would be unlikely that you'd do it without at least three landings to qualify for the day currency).
 
flyingron said:
A BFR does nothing for passenger carrying (except it would be unlikely that you'd do it without at least three landings to qualify for the day currency).
Click to expand...

Well, you certainly can't carry passengers without it! My point was you can go all the way to the very end of your BFR currency and still fly yourself around.
 
Related question about the "full stop" requirement; this would mean taxiing off the runway completely then continuing to taxi back around to take off position thereby excluding in entirety any notion of the option or touch 'n go? Supposing airport is towered one could simply state such request succinctly?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
beammeup said:
Related question about the "full stop" requirement; this would mean taxiing off the runway completely then continuing to taxi back around to take off position thereby excluding in entirety any notion of the option or touch 'n go? Supposing airport is towered one could simply state such request succinctly?
Click to expand...

If the runway is long enough you can do a stop and go. Happens all the time.
 
When you request and receive a clearance for "the option" you can do a full stop, a stop & go or a touch-n-go...it's all your option.
 
Two questions: 1. so right after I did my checkride that's when the time starts counting down right? If I want to carry passengers after 90 days after my checkride I need to have at least 3 t/o and landings.

2. If I am continually flying for the 90 days does that count towards the 3 t/o and landings?(assuming I always have passengers?)
 
cocolos said:
Two questions: 1. so right after I did my checkride that's when the time starts counting down right? If I want to carry passengers after 90 days after my checkride I need to have at least 3 t/o and landings.

2. If I am continually flying for the 90 days does that count towards the 3 t/o and landings?(assuming I always have passengers?)
Click to expand...


Passengers or not... if you are continually flying then the clock starts when you had your last flight.....And three take off's and landing, which is probably a given since every flight starts and ends with a take off and landing
 
N801BH said:
Passengers or not... if you are continually flying then the clock starts when you had your last flight.....And three take off's and landing, which is probably a given since every flight starts and ends with a take off and landing
Click to expand...
Wouldn't the clock start 3 landings ago?
 
cocolos said:
Two questions: 1. so right after I did my checkride that's when the time starts counting down right? If I want to carry passengers after 90 days after my checkride I need to have at least 3 t/o and landings.
Click to expand...
The checkride does not in and of itself affect the matter. All that matters is 3 t/o & ldgs within the preceding 90 days. If you did three on the ride (and not many do less), then that's what you're looking back for.

2. If I am continually flying for the 90 days does that count towards the 3 t/o and landings?(assuming I always have passengers?)
Click to expand...
Doesn't matter whether you have passengers or not when you make those takeoffs and landings. The only question is whether on the day you intend to fly with passengers you can look back and find in your logbook three takeoffs and three landings as the sole manipulator of the controls within the preceding 90 days.
 
danielr said:
Just got my Private Pilot's License! The carrying of passengers is my main focus, as my continuation of receiving other certifications and ratings will exempt me from having to take a biannual flight review.

I am familiar with the rules regarding the 3 takeoffs and landings within the preceding 90 days (and to a full stop at night, and with a tail-wheel airplane).

My question is, what would happen, should your passenger currency 'lapse', because you did not complete your 3 takeoffs and landings within 90 days? Does this mean after 90 days you have to go up with an instructor and do them? Or can you still complete the 3 takeoffs and landings after the 90 day period?

To my knowledge, nothing is mentioned in the FAR's regarding this.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Remember that any action that is not prohibited by the FAR is permitted. If they listed all of the things that are permitted you, wouldn't be able to lift a book of FARs.

Bob Gardner
 
Ron Levy said:
The checkride does not in and of itself affect the matter. All that matters is 3 t/o & ldgs within the preceding 90 days. If you did three on the ride (and not many do less), then that's what you're looking back for.

Doesn't matter whether you have passengers or not when you make those takeoffs and landings. The only question is whether on the day you intend to fly with passengers you can look back and find in your logbook three takeoffs and three landings as the sole manipulator of the controls within the preceding 90 days.
Click to expand...

Unless you have some kind of interruption in your ride (let's say you have to go back and do the "Short Field" cause you blew it), then the checkride effectively (while not necessarily because of the checkride, but because of what you did on the checkride) gives you 90 days of day currency. Unless your checkride was at night (is that even possible??), it does nothing for your night passenger currency.
 
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