Panel upgrade list....what should I get done first?

[callegro]

Just completed the annual on my Cherokee 180D. It was a basic annual, the only upgrade that I had done was to install new LED nav/strobes, also a new LED landing light to make my plane all LED. Now I want to focus on the panel, before the annual was happening, I had a talk with an avionics shop in Socal about what I want to do, how I am on a budget, and what I should get done first on my list. Here is my list, and I would like your guys' input.

1. New glare shield with LED strip lighting.
Piper owners know that the interior lighting isn't that great and I do a lot of night flying. My glare shield now is slightly warped and has is just thrashed.

2. Nulites on the 6 pack and on the RPM gauge.
Part of the panel lighting project.

3. Add post lights or something similar to the center gauges (oil press, oil temp, fuel quantity, etc)

4. ADS-B solution.
I figure to do it sooner rather than later, kinda leaning toward the Freeflight Rangr.

5. Panel mount for my Garmin Aera 500.
Would like to eliminate everything on the glare shield such as the GPS and bluetooth. Not really a fan of mounting the GPS to the yoke.

6. New rocker switches.
Lettering is rubbing off and barely visible.

7. PTT on copilots yoke

8. Lastly, a powder coated aluminum panel overlay....if the prices aren't through the roof.

Attached is a pic of my panel. Let me know if you guys think I should add anything. Also, if you know of any other good avionics shops in southern California.

Thanks

 

[Caramon13]

Do you fly IFR at all?

A new PTT costs $30 or less, rocker switches probably under $50.

 

[kyleb]

I would not panel mount any portable GPS. They become obsolescent quickly and are often irreparable within a few years of purchase, leaving you with an expensive hole in the panel and necessitating another panel upgrade.

A yoke mount (IMO) is a better solution.

 

[Unit74]

I would not panel mount any portable GPS. They become obsolescent quickly and are often irreparable within a few years of purchase, leaving you with an expensive hole in the panel and necessitating another panel upgrade.

A yoke mount (IMO) is a better solution.

Do you have any idea how many 396 and 496 are still operational? I see them all the time. Your comment is completely uniformed and asinine. The Aeras won't be replaced for quite a while and even then, will be supported by Garmin for at least 10 years after that.

 

[ahkahn]

#1, #2, and #3 can be wiped out with replacement LED's in the panel. My panel was very sad and dark and after replacing all my bulbs with LED post lights it's brighter than I could ever imagine or need.

Ran about $20 on Superbrightleds.com

 

[bnt83]

I would not panel mount any portable GPS. They become obsolescent quickly and are often irreparable within a few years of purchase, leaving you with an expensive hole in the panel and necessitating another panel upgrade.

A yoke mount (IMO) is a better solution.

I disagree. An Airgizmo dock is so easy to install and wiring is a no brainer.

Not only that but they can make future panel work easier since its a breeze popping out the handheld and removing 4 measily screws give me a giant 4.25 by 6.3 inch hole to work through.

I've got an ~8 or so year old 296, and love it. Updates are not a problem, has its own internal standby battery charged off the avionics buss, external antenna mounted on top of the cabin, been rock solid relable.

When I do upgrade the 296 I'll need to buy another "super spendy" mount $100 and the handheld $500. Two hours labor to swap.

Do you have any idea how many 396 and 496 are still operational? I see them all the time. Your comment is completely uniformed and asinine. The Aeras won't be replaced for quite a while and even then, will be supported by Garmin for at least 10 years after that.

Exactly.

I thought about a iPhone 6 dock but that won't work with an external GPS antenna which is important to me.

 

[kyleb]

Do you have any idea how many 396 and 496 are still operational? I see them all the time. Your comment is completely uniformed and asinine. The Aeras won't be replaced for quite a while and even then, will be supported by Garmin for at least 10 years after that.

You may be right about the Aeras being supported 10 years after production ceases, but I wouldn't bet on it based on history. If you look at this link and drill down to the 396's and 496's, you'll see the factory no longer offers repairs.

https://fly.garmin.com/fly-garmin/support/warranty-information/out-of-warranty

Those units were phased out in ~2010 or 2011. I have no idea when support ended - it might have been yesterday, it might have been years ago.

I stand by my statement that I would never fit a portable docking system into an airplane (although I will restrict that comment to certified aircraft). It is far too expensive to fix panels once you've chopped them up.

 

[murphey]

1. Remove the plastic panel overlay, scrub it well with Comet or something, then spray paint with SEM. You'd be amazed what this $10 update will do to improve the looks of the panel. While you're at it, scrub the back of the overlay and repaint with silver, another $10 for the SEM or you can probably use a can of silver paint from the local big box.

2. While you have the overlay off, check the light sockets by the corner of the instruments. A GE53 bulb in each socket, the newly painted back of the panel, and you'll be able to see the instruments much better. I think a dozen bulbs will run you about $15.

3. Lose that bottom radio - it's worth nothing except to a museum. Someone on ebay may pay a couple hundred for it. Pick up a used King or a TKM slide-in replacement for the Narco 12D - looks like you have one on the top, may as well get another one. New management at TKM and they seem to be doing it right these days. Used 12D is running anywhere from $900-$1500. You'll be much happier. On the other hand, if that top radio is a Narco - go get the TKM slide-in replacement. The new TKM is $3200 but for that money, I'd go find a used SL30 instead. It also plays nicely with the MC60 nav indicator. (Yes, I know the SL 30 is discontinued - it's still the most cost-effective TSO'd Garmin, even if they did steal it from UPS/Apollo)

4. A new audio/nav switch (that's the top unit in the stack, if I read it correctly). PSEngineering has great equipment (and hangs out here, too) that works with everything. PMA 6000 retails for $1100.

Installation and fixing all the wiring, probably run you another $1500. But you'll be spending money on the RANGR for install, may as well do it at the same time.

 

[callegro]

Yep, I shoulda mentioned that I don't have my IFR ticket. Maybe down the line, but not for a while. With that said, I'd rather stick with my Aera for now, rather than upgrading to a GNS Waas or something similar.

 

[callegro]

Also, I wasn't planning on doing anything to the radios for the time being. Both the TKM and the KX70 work fine. The audio panel works fine as well, however I wouldn't mind having a PS8000BT or 340. That would be on my wishlist, but not really a priority.

 

[Ravioli]

Get the AirGizmo and replace bulbs.

Don't bother with ADS-B compliance until 2019. New devices are coming, and prices for used will erode. That RANGR will feel better at half the price.

Also, I'm guessing the 2020 MANDATE will probably slide a few years, like MANDATEs often do.

That said, I do have a GDL-39 for ADS-B IN on my Garmin 696. The 696 is docked in my RV, and I use a yoke mount in my two co-owned planes.

Pretty it up, brighten it up, and spend money on your IFR... you'll have plenty of time to buy new avionics over the coming years.

 

[denverpilot]

You're going to hit that silo if you don't climb.

I don't see anything wrong with that panel for VFR. Leave it alone and spend the money on training. You'll know when you need something else.

 

[bnt83]

Also, I wasn't planning on doing anything to the radios for the time being. Both the TKM and the KX70 work fine. The audio panel works fine as well, however I wouldn't mind having a PS8000BT or 340. That would be on my wishlist, but not really a priority.

Have you gotten a quote for an 8000BT? They are a ton of wiring labor so that might scare you right out of one.

Depending on your ADSB solution it too might interface with the audio panel

 

[bnt83]

You may be right about the Aeras being supported 10 years after production ceases, but I wouldn't bet on it based on history. If you look at this link and drill down to the 396's and 496's, you'll see the factory no longer offers repairs.

https://fly.garmin.com/fly-garmin/support/warranty-information/out-of-warranty

Those units were phased out in ~2010 or 2011. I have no idea when support ended - it might have been yesterday, it might have been years ago.

I stand by my statement that I would never fit a portable docking system into an airplane (although I will restrict that comment to certified aircraft). It is far too expensive to fix panels once you've chopped them up.

Yet they still repair the black & white 196 for $200. Those are at least 15 years old now.

 

[James331]

Take all that money and just buy a GNS430 with a nav head.

 

[bnt83]

Re: Panel upgrade list....what should I get done first

Take all that money and just buy a GNS430 with a nav head.

In theory the installation labor is the same between a GNS430 and GTN650, and the GNS line being at least 18 years old, I couldn't do a 430.

 

[James331]

You can get a GTN installed for 10k??

Also there is a difference in usability and tactile feel, I prefer the knobs.

 

[Caramon13]

You can get a GTN installed for 10k??

Also there is a difference in usability and tactile feel, I prefer the knobs.

I have nothing against the GNS 430/530 but they can be overly complex for people who have never used them. Heck there are books out there with scenarios just to learn how to program in flight plans, approaches, etc.

I've used the GNS 530 and 430 and I have a GTN 650 in the plane I own now. Yes, it can be a bit of a challenge in turbulence to switch frequencies, but, it's FAR easier and more intuitive to operate and it has a bigger screen.

I wish my GTN install only cost 10K

 

[bnt83]

I have nothing against the GNS 430/530 but they can be overly complex for people who have never used them. Heck there are books out there with scenarios just to learn how to program in flight plans, approaches, etc.

I've used the GNS 530 and 430 and I have a GTN 650 in the plane I own now. Yes, it can be a bit of a challenge in turbulence to switch frequencies, but, it's FAR easier and more intuitive to operate and it has a bigger screen.

I wish my GTN install only cost 10K

That post in the classified for $10.5k *installed* (430w) did NOT include a CDI.

I have a CDI on the bench. I can get a complete 650 kit with everything needed (less wire & coax) for under $10k.


Avionics are a bit like used cars, especially the trade-in deals.

 

[bnt83]

Also there is a difference in usability and tactile feel, I prefer the knobs.

From what I've seen online, most things on the GTN can be manipulated via the knobs on the front, just the way you like it.

 

[bnt83]

I have a GTN 650 in the plane I own now. Yes, it can be a bit of a challenge in turbulence to switch frequencies, but, it's FAR easier and more intuitive to operate and it has a bigger screen.

I wish my GTN install only cost 10K

I'm planning on wiring the optional remote functions, that being;

1 Com Channeling
2 Com Frequency Swap
3 Nav Frequency Swap
4 CDI Source Select
5 OBS Susp

 

[Caramon13]

That post in the classified for $10.5k *installed* (430w) did NOT include a CDI.

I have a CDI on the bench. I can get a complete 650 kit with everything needed (less wire & coax) for under $10k.


Avionics are a bit like used cars, especially the trade-in deals.

Yep, I got all the equipment I needed for under 10K as well, it was the labor that bit me in the ..... After that I ended up paying about 14K, but also got a CDI for that price an encoder, diplexer..etc.

 

[Bob Noel]

Just completed the annual on my Cherokee 180D. It was a basic annual, the only upgrade that I had done was to install new LED nav/strobes, also a new LED landing light to make my plane all LED. Now I want to focus on the panel, before the annual was happening, I had a talk with an avionics shop in Socal about what I want to do, how I am on a budget, and what I should get done first on my list. Here is my list, and I would like your guys' input.

1. New glare shield with LED strip lighting.
Piper owners know that the interior lighting isn't that great and I do a lot of night flying. My glare shield now is slightly warped and has is just thrashed.

2. Nulites on the 6 pack and on the RPM gauge.
Part of the panel lighting project.

3. Add post lights or something similar to the center gauges (oil press, oil temp, fuel quantity, etc)

fwiw - a few years back I put Nulites on the unlit instruments in my cherokee 140. Loved them. Those, and the overhead light, were all I needed to see all the previously unlit stuff in the panel. In other words, I don't recall needing any extra lights for the center gauges.

I've never seen LED strip lights in the glare shield, so I don't know if that would be better or not.

Good luck and have fun with it.

 

[bnt83]

Yep, I got all the equipment I needed for under 10K as well, it was the labor that bit me in the ..... After that I ended up paying about 14K, but also got a CDI for that price an encoder, diplexer..etc.

That guy that posted about the 430w installed price, estimated it would be about $11k for a used 650 with me doing all the work.

Ahhh no.

 

[bnt83]

Just completed the annual on my Cherokee 180D. It was a basic annual, the only upgrade that I had done was to install new LED nav/strobes, also a new LED landing light to make my plane all LED. Now I want to focus on the panel, before the annual was happening, I had a talk with an avionics shop in Socal about what I want to do, how I am on a budget, and what I should get done first on my list. Here is my list, and I would like your guys' input.

1. New glare shield with LED strip lighting.
Piper owners know that the interior lighting isn't that great and I do a lot of night flying. My glare shield now is slightly warped and has is just thrashed.

2. Nulites on the 6 pack and on the RPM gauge.
Part of the panel lighting project.

3. Add post lights or something similar to the center gauges (oil press, oil temp, fuel quantity, etc)

4. ADS-B solution.
I figure to do it sooner rather than later, kinda leaning toward the Freeflight Rangr.

5. Panel mount for my Garmin Aera 500.
Would like to eliminate everything on the glare shield such as the GPS and bluetooth. Not really a fan of mounting the GPS to the yoke.

6. New rocker switches.
Lettering is rubbing off and barely visible.

7. PTT on copilots yoke

8. Lastly, a powder coated aluminum panel overlay....if the prices aren't through the roof.

Attached is a pic of my panel. Let me know if you guys think I should add anything. Also, if you know of any other good avionics shops in southern California.

Thanks

LEDs typically don't dim well on the same circuit as incandescent lighting. I try to run a separate dimmer for LEDs. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[petrolero]

You're going to hit that silo if you don't climb.

I don't see anything wrong with that panel for VFR. Leave it alone and spend the money on training. You'll know when you need something else.

I was going to suggest ditching the silo hood ornament. Looks draggy.

Anyway this thread is enlightening <ducks> in that I need to research both NuLites and the drop-in LED replacement post lights mentioned by ahkahn above.