PA-44 down in Oregon

One of the commentors to the article:

Cessna208
3 hours ago

While the aircraft is in an obvious spin, I wonder why the pilot was not able to recover to normal flight attitude. That recovery manuver is taught repeatedly in pilot training. It will be interesting to hear NTSB findings in this incident.

It does appear to be so from the video ...
 
Like many, I'm sad that someone or something didn't recover from the spin. From my SEL experience I would think "Power off to both engines, push, rudder and recover." It's even a case where power off and let go of the controls - recover from spiral dive might have been a better option. It's pretty locked in by the time the video is starting. Vmc. More to learn, NTSB reports coming. RIP and peace to the families.

Update from Oregon newspaper: A 20 yr old student and a 22 year old CFI, 20 yr old survived in the back seat.
 
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I assume they almost recovered towards the end, because one person survived. How sad.
 
When I first saw the thread I was worried it involved our friend Half Fast.

I feel for the pilots involved, but still quite relieved it wasn’t him.
 
News this morning reported on another plane crash, Newberg Oregon. Only bringing this article here to ask a question. Since I have been on this forum seems every day or 2 there is new thread on a crash. Is it normal for this many crashes to occur in sequence?

www.krem.com

2 people dead, 1 hospitalized after plane crashes into Newberg home

There were people inside the home at the time of the crash, but they were able to get out of the house uninjured.
www.krem.com www.krem.com
 
Newberg, Oregon, a small city about 25 miles southwest of Portland, two victims found dead at the scene. A instructor and a student pilot died a third person survived the crash. I believe the PA-44 is a great plane for flight schools how does it handle if you let the good engine go over the top in a VMC demo into a full spin.
 
I'm having trouble understanding how to make a PA44 do that on purpose. The slugs I flew always stalled out before trying to go over the top.

RIP. Watching this one closely, hoping some light gets shed. Glad nobody got skooshed in the house.
 
T tails tend to be harder to stop spins.
 
Last year 4,100 people died in traffic accidents in the US. That's over eleven a day. The number of non-fatal car crashes are probably too numerous to count and only the biggest accidents ever make the news. In contrast, every aviation incident is reported nationally.
 
We'll wait to see what really happened, but I hope it's not another case of VMC roll. Killing people whilst training is the worst thing possible.
 
20 years ao, I had a student do a stall in a Seneca. He panic. Hammered throttles forward fast and one engine stumbled. I had to pull both to idle and stuff the nose down. This would have been the result.

Sad day.
 
fast99 said:
Since I have been on this forum seems every day or 2 there is new thread on a crash. Is it normal for this many crashes to occur in sequence?
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Google "Nall report".

In 2020 (most recent year with finalized data), there were 892 non-commercial fixed-wing accidents, 156 of which were fatal. That an average of almost 3 accidents per day, and one fatal accident every couple of days or so.

So: Yes.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Already posted and discussion ongoing in the mishap forum.
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This thread was to get away from the Monday-morning quarterbacking and more on the PA-44 aircraft VMC and blue line training and what happens when you let it go too far.
 
Fast Lane said:
Hammered throttles forward fast and one engine stumbled.
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I did that once during initial Seneca training with my MEI. We were on the ground starting the takeoff roll. One engine cut out completely. We aborted takeoff while still on the ground with lots of runway. Taxi over to the ramp on one engine.

It was a great learning experience. Move the throttles smoothly. Do not jam them forward.
 
wayneda40 said:
Looks like 42,795 highway fatalities (117 per day) in 2022.
www.nhtsa.gov

NHTSA Estimates for 2022 Show Roadway Fatalities Remain Flat After Two Years of Dramatic Increases | NHTSA

NHTSA released 2022 early estimates for traffic crash deaths. Fatalities remain flat after 2 years of increases; projected declined in fourth quarter.
www.nhtsa.gov www.nhtsa.gov
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Sure did miss a decimal point! (or at least my resource did. I went back and checked. They indeed did.) But that even more exemplifies the point.
 
Not sure how a Seminole cane be forced to spin like that, but having the video will help in the investigation.

With the exception of a severe aft CG, I am out of ideas. The Seminoles I have flown were pretty easily recovered from improper Vmca recovery control inputs (from students, of course).

Reports stated there were two people on board, so that rules out a full airplane.
 
IK04 said:
Not sure how a Seminole cane be forced to spin like that, but having the video will help in the investigation.

With the exception of a severe aft CG, I am out of ideas. The Seminoles I have flown were pretty easily recovered from improper Vmca recovery control inputs (from students, of course).

Reports stated there were two people on board, so that rules out a full airplane.
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There was a third person on board, in the back seat. She survived, with critical injuries.
 
brien23 said:
This thread was to get away from the Monday-morning quarterbacking and more on the PA-44 aircraft VMC and blue line training and what happens when you let it go too far.
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Problem is that every thread becomes that. Then we have 3 threads on the same accident here at POA and then people posts more threads talking about how it seems like there are more accidents than normal lately.

Well there aren’t. There are just 3 times as many accident threads
 
My girlfriend works for Horizon, I guess they got an email yesterday saying the two students onboard were both part of the Alaska Airlines Ascend program.

Terrible deal. RIP.
 
Daleandee said:
One of the commentors to the article:

Cessna208
3 hours ago

While the aircraft is in an obvious spin, I wonder why the pilot was not able to recover to normal flight attitude. That recovery manuver is taught repeatedly in pilot training. It will be interesting to hear NTSB findings in this incident.

It does appear to be so from the video ...
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And how many people actually have spun a plane and done a recovery? Even CFIs may do only one or two.

Knowing metnally what to do and being able to do it when it happens are two different things.
 
Pinecone said:
And how many people actually have spun a plane and done a recovery? Even CFIs may do only one or two.

Knowing metnally what to do and being able to do it when it happens are two different things.
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Even a pilot who has done thousands of spins has almost certainly never done one in a twin. With engines and occasionally fuel tanks further outboard on the wings than in a single, there's a lot more spinning momentum than in an aerobatic plane with a 25-foot wingspan and centerline fuel. I haven't tried it and don't intend to, but I can imagine the recovery progressing much slower than in, say, a 172 or Decathlon, possibly feeling to the startled pilot like it's not working at all and maybe he isn't doing it right, leading to any reaction from consciously wrong inputs to panic to resignation.
 
Pinecone said:
And how many people actually have spun a plane and done a recovery? Even CFIs may do only one or two.

Knowing metnally what to do and being able to do it when it happens are two different things.
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I did accidentally when I was 22 and still a student practicing stalls solo. Fortunately, my Flight Instructor at the time ignored the FAA guidance and we learned to do spins and spin recovery. The school had an C150 aerobat. But I agree with you. Just three weeks prior to my accidental spin another student who did not have as good an instructor spun it in. His death was at the front of my mind when I was pulling out of the spin.
 
Pinecone said:
And how many people actually have spun a plane and done a recovery? Even CFIs may do only one or two.

Knowing metnally what to do and being able to do it when it happens are two different things.
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As much as I practiced engine outs it was very different when the engine actually quit on take-off ~100' and my mouth filled with cotton. I'm guessing it would be much worse for a spin at low altitude in a twin engined plane. The startle factor for the real thing happening very close to the ground has to be off the charts ...
 
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I was made to do 3 for my CFI endorsement. :)

I fear spins intensely in my plane. Vmc is recovered at the very first whisper of control loss or impending stall.
 
Morgan3820 said:
I did accidentally when I was 22 and still a student practicing stalls solo.
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Similarly, I recall doing a departure stall as a student in a C-150 with flaps inadvertently left down. Don't know if that was a factor, but the plane rolled rapidly left and began what I now call an "imminent" spin. What little training I had at that point kicked in and I got the yoke forward with right rudder and recovered. It scared me enough that as an instructor, I made sure my students were at least exposed to such an incipient spin by intentionally having them do a cross-control stall to the wing drop. Those who were willing got to see/do real spins when I owned my Citabrias. Regardless, I think its essential that all instructors do a bit more than the required spin training and get at least somewhat proficient in recovery techniques.
 
So……how many people have spun a twin and survived?

Seems like a lot of people think that such an event is an easy thing to get out of….
 
Fearless Tower said:
So……how many people have spun a twin and survived?

Seems like a lot of people think that such an event is an easy thing to get out of….
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And yet the POH of every twin that I know of prohibit spins.
 
Can’t spin a S-3, it’s aerodynamically impossible. Have done “post stall gyrations”.

Have spun a T-2, even inverted spins! Great fun!

These prolly don’t count, do they?

Got my MEI recently in a twin commanche. Was given all sorts of advice on how to get it out of a spin. My instructor gave quite a few stories of inadvertent spins in that exact airframe. Sounded dicey.
 
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