Overtime as cfi

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falconkidding

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Falcon Kidding
So I work as a CFI in Alabama enjoy my job but we don’t get overtime pay. Bama doesn’t have any overtime or lunch break laws so FLSA applies. We get between 40-60 hrs a week are full time w2 employees but don’t get time and a half for over 40. My understanding is that they are counting on a professional exemption which from my reading the dept of labor doesn’t consider pilots as exempt. (Outside of 121 and 135 ops)Although case law is both ways.

Any advice? Do I kick that hornets nest? It’s kind of expected to work 7 days a week and we are scheduled full days with no breaks but we put up with it cause we’ll fly 120-150+hrs a month and it’s easy Instructing. I feel being so willing to take whatever is offered is kinda setting the standard for people behind me that they’ll have to do the same.
 
What are you looking to do long term? Kicking the hornets’ nest is a much easier decision to make when you’re not worried about how it’ll affect your next step.
 
120-150 hrs a month? Holy smokes. Nice thing is you’ll get your 1500 super quick.
 
I don't have any advice for you, but I suspect that if you push for time and a half, they'll cut your hours and either bring on more instructors or reduce their student load. Raising instructor rates will inevitably raise training rates, which could result in lost business.

So I suspect that if you want to build hours sooner, you're probably better not saying anything. If you're more interested in having a balanced life, speak up. Keep in mind this may effect other instructors as well and they might not be happy with the outcome.
 
@falconkidding - you stated Full-time and W2... but are you hourly or salary? And if Salary are you exempt or non-exempt?

Examples: [Grossly simplified]
I'm W2 and hourly. My hourly rate is over the threshold where time and half goes away, so I get $0.50 for each hour.
If you're Salary exempt you get straight salary whether you work +/- 40 hours per week
If you're Salary non-exempt you get salary + extra pay for hours after 40. Whether that is straight time equivalent or time and half equivalent goes back to threshold referred to above (which I'm told varies by state)

On to the question of whether to force the issue... calculate how much you're missing out on and decide if it's worthwhile. An alternative is to do a lookback at 6 month intervals and show the boss man that you're averaging x hours per week and feel that you like compensation that factors that in.

They charge for every you log, so they might as well consistently give you a bit of it, right?
 
That’s a ton of hours. Flight instructors I worked with here did 60-100 hours a month. And 100 hours was considered a ton
 
The door is still open here! ;)
 
Isn't there a limit on both daily and weekly hours set by the FAA?
 
Ravioli said:
@falconkidding - you stated Full-time and W2... but are you hourly or salary? And if Salary are you exempt or non-exempt?

Examples: [Grossly simplified]
I'm W2 and hourly. My hourly rate is over the threshold where time and half goes away, so I get $0.50 for each hour.
If you're Salary exempt you get straight salary whether you work +/- 40 hours per week
If you're Salary non-exempt you get salary + extra pay for hours after 40. Whether that is straight time equivalent or time and half equivalent goes back to threshold referred to above (which I'm told varies by state)

On to the question of whether to force the issue... calculate how much you're missing out on and decide if it's worthwhile. An alternative is to do a lookback at 6 month intervals and show the boss man that you're averaging x hours per week and feel that you like compensation that factors that in.

They charge for every you log, so they might as well consistently give you a bit of it, right?
Click to expand...
We are hourly.

To answer some questions. Honestly the money isn’t too big a deal yeah the extra couple grand would be nice but the hours are nice as well. I just feel like this is version 2.0 of pay to fly cause we have shiny jet syndrome. Yeah I’ll get to 1500 in 9 months but whenever the job market isn’t like it is I don’t like setting the guys up down the road as work your ass off with no work life balance.

Plus I’m curious about the legality of no 1.5x pay after 40.
 
falconkidding said:
My understanding is that they are counting on a professional exemption which from my reading the dept of labor doesn’t consider pilots as exempt. (Outside of 121 and 135 ops)Although case law is both ways.
Click to expand...
Are you a pilot or instructor per the dept of labor? According to the FAA, you're an instructor (no first or second class medical required).
 
falconkidding said:
We are hourly.
cut
Plus I’m curious about the legality of no 1.5x pay after 40.
Click to expand...

When you're hourly the threshold question comes in to play. A quick call to a labor lawyer in your state will solve that. I'm sure it's something that gets asked all the time and they'll answer in less time than they can get your information for an invoice :)
 
falconkidding said:
So I work as a CFI in Alabama enjoy my job but we don’t get overtime pay. Bama doesn’t have any overtime or lunch break laws so FLSA applies. We get between 40-60 hrs a week are full time w2 employees but don’t get time and a half for over 40. My understanding is that they are counting on a professional exemption which from my reading the dept of labor doesn’t consider pilots as exempt. (Outside of 121 and 135 ops)Although case law is both ways.

Any advice? Do I kick that hornets nest? It’s kind of expected to work 7 days a week and we are scheduled full days with no breaks but we put up with it cause we’ll fly 120-150+hrs a month and it’s easy Instructing. I feel being so willing to take whatever is offered is kinda setting the standard for people behind me that they’ll have to do the same.
Click to expand...

As you have appropriately noted, you live in a state that believes in slavery lite. Suck it up, get you hours and move on.

The job duties of the traditional "learned professions" are exempt. These include lawyers, doctors, dentists, teachers, architects, clergy. Also included are registered nurses (but not LPNs), accountants (but not bookkeepers), engineers (who have engineering degrees or the equivalent and perform work of the sort usually performed by licensed professional engineers), actuaries, scientists (but not technicians), pharmacists, and other employees who perform work requiring "advanced knowledge" similar to that historically associated with the traditional learned professions.
 
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Are there other young CFI’s beating down the doors to take your job? In 2018 the market determines wages. I am NOT a lawyer, but I have been an employer and I live in Alabama. I am pretty sure they are within the law. I would say, if it’s a bad situation just quit and get another job of go independent, if it’s not, suck it up, you’ll be out of there soon.

ETA, car salesmen and service advisors, even if hourly qualify. I strongly suspect CFI would also.
 
After you get your airline job go after them for back pay. But definitely wait until you're not there anymore.
 
If you need the job, you say nothing, just like life has always been.

We had a guy who didn’t need the job and got laid off at one place I worked. He kicked the hornet’s nest, got a nice judgement from a judge, and all of us immediately got converted over to hourly in a highly paid business.

They paid us hourly commensurate with our base pay, and i had never ever worked less than a 40 hour week there ever.

I made BANK on OT for many years there. Thanks hornet’s next guy! :)

Sad part was, he was laid off becuase he was really not good at the job at all.

If you really want to kick a hornet’s nest, read pretty much any flight school the IRS rules on whether or not someone is truly an independent contractor and can be paid 1099.

LOL... plenty of folks who literally don’t care on that one, on both the employer and employee side, but most flight schools have enough mandatory things to do and control of the CFIs time that 1099 is blatantly illegal.

Tons of charter and other low end flying gigs also breaking those laws.

But again, if nobody cares, no harm no foul. Someone can even file their own taxes accordingly and keep themselves out of trouble, even if the employer wants to hang themselves, once audited.

Once someone does care, and doesn’t need the job, that is. And feels like kicking the hornet’s nest just for the entertainment value, and maybe a nice judgement with penalties and interest tacked on.

Most folks don’t have the time nor energy to bother with such things.
 
Does your employer or does the industry consider the hours you get to log as part of your compensation package? I read the national average salary for CFIs in just slightly north of40k, roughly equivilant to a burger flipper st McDonalds. My school charges 59.00 an hour for the instructor, so at 40k what is the CFI getting an hour? Again at my school the full time instructors work 7 days a week. So if the hours are not considered part of your wage package and you don’t plan to move on, seems like a very poor career choice.
 
You asked for advice so here goes. Keep quiet and and build your time. You are not in a long term career situation and it's obvious that you are in an entry level position that will hopefully lead to a more stable and financially rewarding job down the road. You are paying your dues. Most of us on this forum who have good jobs started at the bottom and worked long hours. The reward is down the road. [Hopefully for you that is the left seat of an Airbus]. And finally the great state of Alabama is not a semi-slave state. Period. A CFI is free to leave and pursue a job anywhere in the world they desire. No one in the state of Alabama is held to their job against their will.
 
Sounds like your goal is 121. Let it go. Get your hours and move on.

Welcome to commercial aviation. BTDT. It paid off in my case eventually.
 
falconkidding said:
So I work as a CFI in Alabama enjoy my job but we don’t get overtime pay. Bama doesn’t have any overtime or lunch break laws so FLSA applies. We get between 40-60 hrs a week are full time w2 employees but don’t get time and a half for over 40. My understanding is that they are counting on a professional exemption which from my reading the dept of labor doesn’t consider pilots as exempt. (Outside of 121 and 135 ops)Although case law is both ways.

Any advice? Do I kick that hornets nest? It’s kind of expected to work 7 days a week and we are scheduled full days with no breaks but we put up with it cause we’ll fly 120-150+hrs a month and it’s easy Instructing. I feel being so willing to take whatever is offered is kinda setting the standard for people behind me that they’ll have to do the same.
Click to expand...


Please tell us where they are holding you at gun point so we can send the police!

... Or are you working there under your own free will/choice?

You’re not going to tell me you knew the pay when you signed up are you?!

Look, if you don’t like where you’re working because of the pay or whatever else, LEAVE

If enough people don’t think it’s a good place to work they will LEAVE and the management will have to offer more money to attract CFIs or they will have to shut down.

Crying to the government because you want them to force someone to give you more of their money isn’t a good look.
 
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If you complain and cause a problem,you could be labeled as a trouble maker,and your reputation will follow you throughout your career,aviation is a small world.
 
Let me make sure I have this right.

You are getting paid for every hour you work. You are getting more than 40 hours of flight time per week on someone else's dime. And you are complaining about not getting 1.5x after 40 hours.

If that's right, I think you have a lot to learn about life. Don't ruin it for everyone else.
 
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