Overnight Fee Attached To Prop

Salty said:
Alex, I’ll take “things I’m not even remotely concerned about” for $200.
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Exactly. This very thing happened to me every time I visited my parents overnight...never even thought to be upset. Their envelopes were blue and my prop black, but still...

There’s a lot of things that will send me into an Archie Bunker style rant...this isn’t one.
 
Pilawt said:
What if they were TSA agents using your pitot tube as a step to look inside the cockpit?

Park at any large FBO where they have to tow the airplane to a remote parking area, and it's better than even odds that prop will be touched and/or moved.

Moral of the story: If the airplane has been out of your sight -- anywhere, for any length of time -- a full preflight is warranted, taking nothing for granted. A seagull with a tummy ache could have done more damage in your absence than a rubber band on a prop.
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I am filing a peremptory lawsuit right now against all seagulls for this very eventuality.

Llewtrah381 said:
NOOOOO!!!!!!!! :eek2::eek2::eek2:
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Me too. I'll just attach it to the prop blade that has more nicks ground out and is probably already lighter. But how will you know if I freshly waxed it with Pledge?
 
iu
 
Twenty years ago I was at Oshkosh air show. I walked up to a P 51 A model that was in the war bird section, very sharp. I touched the prop as I was admiring the plane. A guy came up to and told me as this was not my plane not to touch it. I asked if this was his plane, and he said no. Was he part of the air show staff, and he said no. He was just an eager Karen, fighting crime where ever he saw it. He did have lots of pins and patches, and I think was wearing a sash as well. (OK, may I'm exaggerating how he looked a bit....).
 
WDD said:
Twenty years ago I was at Oshkosh air show. I walked up to a P 51 A model that was in the war bird section, very sharp. I touched the prop as I was admiring the plane. A guy came up to and told me as this was not my plane not to touch it. I asked if this was his plane, and he said no. Was he part of the air show staff, and he said no. He was just an eager Karen, fighting crime where ever he saw it. He did have lots of pins and patches, and I think was wearing a sash as well. (OK, may I'm exaggerating how he looked a bit....).
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17604571
 
Putting an envelope on a prop is bad practice, even if the chance of damage is anorexic to none. The places I've been that do this have always put it on the tail tie down hook, which makes way more sense.

midwestpa24 said:
So yeah, hardly worth the effort. Be surprised if the airport grosses $1,000 a year off of it. Then deduct cost of envelopes and rubber bands, including the ones that stay attached to the prop, plus the $10/hr someone gets paid for sitting around waiting.

The cliche I've heard before, bending over to pick up a penny while hundred dollar bills are flying past your head, seems to apply.

I guess it helps "justify" someone's job.
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Most significant municipal airports have some sort of 24 hour staffing, and I think HII would qualify as one. That means the staff that they pay whatever - probably more than $10 an hour - is getting paid either way. In a sense, this defrays the cost of having someone there.

The envelopes and rubber bands likely are a negligible cost.

Also, HII is a pretty popular airport. You are assuming only 100 planes a year pay the fee - which is probably more like what they get in a week or, worst case, a month.

I'm not expressing a view one way or another on the collection of fees for the private, non commercial use of public infrastructure, but they aren't losing money on this.
 
What's interesting is on Airnav it says nothing about fees. There's no city website listed on the airnav page, and the one FBO says no ramp fees.
 
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The comments section on ForeFlight says specifically the city charges a fee and a bill will be placed on your prop with an envelope and rubber band.
 
Doug Reid said:
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The comments section on ForeFlight says specifically the city charges a fee and a bill will be placed on your prop with an envelope and rubber band.
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Good for Foreflight. I don't use Foreflight, along with thousands of other people. Also, that's a comment, not official notification.
 
N1120A said:
Most significant municipal airports have some sort of 24 hour staffing, and I think HII would qualify as one.
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Yeah, not quite true. KHII says staffed 0800-1700. My airport could be considered a significant municipal airport with scheduled commercial service, and we aren't 24 hour either.

My airport doesn't charge such a fee. We get our revenue from small aircraft through fuel flowage on gas sold.

I can tell you our airport tried something similar for the parking at the commercial terminal many years ago, an honor system using envelopes. The revenue generated was negligible and was quickly dropped.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Is an FBO a government entity? Didn't think so.
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Ah! So if someone sideswipes your car, it would be inappropriate to leave a note under the wiper, since they're not a government entity... Where does that appear in the law?
 
PaulMillner said:
Ah! So if someone sideswipes your car, it would be inappropriate to leave a note under the wiper, since they're not a government entity... Where does that appear in the law?
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Perhaps you've heard of a Red Herring?
 
I used to work at a flight school where at the end of the day we put a card with a rubber band on the front of the prop to tell the line guys that the airplane needed to be topped off, and they would flip it to the back of the prop after it had been fueled. I don’t remember a single crash as a result of this practice. :)
 
You all are completely missing the real issues here!
  1. Was the envelope PMA, TSO, or STC with an AML?
  2. Was the rubber band AN spec?
  3. Was the note installed by an A&P?
  4. Was an appropriate log entry made by an IA to return the prop to service after removal?
  5. If not removed, was a 337 filed with the local FSDO for a major alteration?
 
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EdFred said:
What's interesting is on Airnav it says nothing about fees. There's no city website listed on the airnav page, and the one FBO says no ramp fees.
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Good for Airnav. I don't use Airnav, along with thousands of other people.

FWIW if you google "HII airport", the "Website" link on the top result takes you to the city website, where the $11 overnight parking fee is listed on the main page.
 
Spacedoc said:
Good for Airnav. I don't use Airnav, along with thousands of other people.

FWIW if you google "HII airport", the "Website" link on the top result takes you to the city website, where the $11 overnight parking fee is listed on the main page.
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Airnav pulls the 5010 data. You know, the stuff in the Chart Supplement, official airport information published by the feds. Says nothing about a fee.
 
tawood said:
:shrug:

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That was pulled from the 5010 data? I didn't see it.

So I relooked at the 5010 data for HII

Non-Commerical Landing Fee: N

There are a bunch of airports where it says Y, and some where it's unanswered. But HII specifically says no non-commercial landing fee. I'd refuse to pay it.
 
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Dave Theisen said:
I don’t remember a single crash as a result of this practice. :)
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Don't remember a single crash as a result of the practice. Well there you have it. Obviously it caused so many crashes so frequently that they've all run together in your memory and you can no longer remember any one particular crash. No wonder people are upset. :stirpot:
 
EdFred said:
Airnav pulls the 5010 data. You know, the stuff in the Chart Supplement, official airport information published by the feds. Says nothing about a fee.
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Since when was a parking fee required to be in the 5010 data?
 
When I read the thread subject, I thought it would be about FBOs that put prop locks on your plane for "security" reasons, and don't remove them until you've paid.

I've had that happen to me twice in the U.S. (never in Canada, but that's only because FBOs are probably too stingy to buy the locks).
 
David Megginson said:
When I read the thread subject, I thought it would be about FBOs that put prop locks on your plane for "security" reasons, and don't remove them until you've paid.

I've had that happen to me twice in the U.S. (never in Canada, but that's only because FBOs are probably too stingy to buy the locks).
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If I am guessing, I am guessing that had to be Massachusetts.
 
OkieAviator said:
Is it strange I now want to rubber band an envelope to my prop....
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oh, this is good........pre-emptively rubber band an envelope to your prop so the FBO thinks they already did it...........now you don't have to pay anyone!


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it's kinda like illegally parking and putting a fake parking ticket on your window so a cop will think you've already been ticketed............


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I think it is just more fundamental than whether it would or would not damage the plane. An FBO shouldn't go around sticking things on someone else's property.
 
smlsml said:
I think it is just more fundamental than whether it would or would not damage the plane. An FBO shouldn't go around sticking things on someone else's property.
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While you're parked at an FBO, they have every right (without asking) to hook up a towbar and move your plane around when they're rearranging the apron, which is a lot more invasive than attaching an envelope to your prop.
 
I actually disagree with that statement. They don't have every right (without asking) to tow the plane around. Every transient FBO I've been to typically asks "if the brake is off in case they need to tow it". That is the explicit question to gain my permission to move my airplane. I often see other aircraft parked that will have a "no tow" sign even displayed on their windshield to confirm the plane isn't authorized for movement (or conversely a "Brake Released" sign of some type). If I go to a transient FBO and tie down on a specific set of rings (especially using my rope), I don't have any expectation that they have a right to move my plane without talking to me.
 
smlsml said:
I actually disagree with that statement. They don't have every right (without asking) to tow the plane around. Every transient FBO I've been to typically asks "if the brake is off in case they need to tow it". That is the explicit question to gain my permission to move my airplane. I often see other aircraft parked that will have a "no tow" sign even displayed on their windshield to confirm the plane isn't authorized for movement (or conversely a "Brake Released" sign of some type). If I go to a transient FBO and tie down on a specific set of rings (especially using my rope), I don't have any expectation that they have a right to move my plane without talking to me.
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You're welcome to take it that way, but they're really only asking if the brake is off; otherwise, they'd ask explicitly if it's OK to tow it. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Those "No tow" signs wouldn't be required if towing weren't the default.
 
When I parked at a transient airport, I put a "No Tow" sign on the windshield. Towing a Velocity without knowing the aircraft can result in an expensive surprise.
 
TommyG said:
Seriously, some of you need to remove the sticks. Ohhh, someone touched my my plane, Oh they better never touch my plane, oh I’m gonna die, they sneezed on my plane. Bigger things in life to worry about.
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With the state of the paint on my PA-28, I probably wouldn't notice if someone died on my plane and there were a police-tape silhouette of the victim on the wing. :( I really need to do something about that.
 
TommyG said:
Seriously, some of you need to remove the sticks. Ohhh, someone touched my my plane, Oh they better never touch my plane, oh I’m gonna die, they sneezed on my plane. Bigger things in life to worry about.
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Just out of curiosity, do you own?
 
My first few overnights at unfamiliar airports I would ask or say something about towing the Mooney. I got a lot of “we tow a lot of mooneys, we know how to do it” in exasperation. I figured I was more likely to ****ing them off enough to do something on purpose than I was saving myself, so I stopped doing that.
 
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