Oshkosh - 2019

Discussion in 'Airventure' started by Dave Theisen, Jul 24, 2018.

  1. Mooney Fan

    Mooney Fan Line Up and Wait

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    I think your ending comments summed it up. It was my first flight to OSH, arriving on Monday morning at 0730 to find the hold already established at Green Lake. And it went from bad to worse. Maybe only the new folks follow the rules but Green Lake was a disaster. Planes cutting each other off, wrong altitudes etc. My flight plan was 2:10 to OSH, once shut down my hobbs was at an even 4 hours. I almost threw in the towel and went on to FDL. Kind of glad I will be flying the mass Cherokee arrival to avoid the new NOTAM growing pains
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
  2. Avi8or2012

    Avi8or2012 Filing Flight Plan

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    You've clearly heard more about the proposed changes to the NOTAM than I have. Upon further review, I can definitely see your point; the people cutting infront and then slowing down to a more "comfortable" 65kts just because, are definitely part of the real problem. Obviously, no one can control the weather and I know that was a HUGE factor in the mess last year. I thought about the Cherokees2OSH - I may have to take a closer look.
    I'm beginning to think that it's just a matter of attitude and people needing to know (and test) their performance profiles before "just going for" Oshkosh. Last year may have just been a fluke.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
  3. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The biggest issues with the RIPON procedure occur when something happens that restricts ground operations (usually an incident that closes one runway). What they should do is just close the arrival procedure down with an EFC time or the like. None of the "holding" procedures work worth a darn.
     
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  4. Mooney Fan

    Mooney Fan Line Up and Wait

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    Like bringing the B-1 in at 0730 the first decent day (Monday) after weather :(

    The heck with it, everyone has to muster at FDL daily for 3 separate mass arrivals from FDL. Everyone has to reserve a slot within one of the three daily departures.

    Who cares if it doesn't work lol
     
  5. iamtheari

    iamtheari Cleared for Takeoff

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    If we’re doing things that don’t work, then let’s just get rid of the tower and arrival procedures. “Oshkosh traffic, Stinson two-zero-broken-tailwheel is fifty miles south, straight in runway 36 right, any traffic in the area please advise.”
     
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  6. kyleb

    kyleb En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Agree. 5 (?) years ago when the Breezy crashed off of 36, they did a horrible time of managing the available runway. First, they closed the airport to departures and arrivals for a long time. Like an hour or two. Then, when the field re-opened, 36L & R both remained closed (which made some sense until they cleared the accident area), but I sat in a departure line for 2+ hours while they endlessly cycled the two Trimotors on 27. Every 15 minutes you had 2 trimotor takeoffs, two trimotor landings, a handful of inbounds and a trickle of outbounds. The occasional warbird would break into line to do a joy ride, and the B-17 was in the mix somewhere.

    Here's a hint. Stop the joyrides, Trimotor rides, and B-17 rides in that situation and get the attendees in and/or out of the field. Horrible utilization of a limited resource (the sole remaining runway).
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
  7. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I've stood out on PAPA for years watching the trimotors. They're not impacting the situation. They use a quarter of the runway, know what they are doing, and get in and out fast. Yes, it's annoying watching other people fly when you don't but they aren't th problem.
     
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  8. dreyna14

    dreyna14 Pre-Flight

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    It seems to me they need to prioritize clearing the skies over airshow ops on certain days. Having a fustercluck of planes circling a lake with varying amounts of fuel and patience along with deteriorating weather conditions is a recipe for absolute disaster for both the people involved and the event in general. I'm sure that the FAA has them by the huevos and if anything happens they will pull the plug. Making the arrival longer and more complicated isn't the answer, either, since a good portion, based on videos I've seen, don't seem to follow the NOTAM to a T. I'm hoping that I can experience the FISK arrival.
     
  9. Lowflynjack

    Lowflynjack Pattern Altitude

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    FISK arrival looks like it will be the same, but instead of starting at Ripon and going to Fisk, we'll start at Waupun, then Ripon, then Fisk. If it's marginal VFR, they'll only allow ADS-B Out equipped planes to come in and you'll fly the FISK approach.

    They address this as well. Last line below.

    These are the proposals:

    Arrival Procedures (FAA Operations)
    • Creating a new arrival gate (VFR waypoint, GPS and visually identified) that is further out than Fisk in order to facilitate consistent spacing prior to arrival at Fisk.
    • A new depicted (GPS defined waypoints) VFR Fisk arrival overlay that is for marginal VFR weather (1,000- to 1,500-foot ceilings) operations. Aircraft that will be allowed to use this procedure must be ADS-B Out equipped.
    • A raised minimum ceiling for all other aircraft operations on the Fisk arrival to 1,500 feet AGL.
    • A procedure to address temporary airport closures and provide a “bail out” track that enables an orderly transition from the final inbound leg to KOSH to KFLD. Aircraft arriving KFLD along the defined route will either land at KFLD or be directed back to the initial for KOSH depending on airport closure status.
    • –The FAA should create a revised policy for mass arrivals that restricts the arrival day/time to the planned time only with limited ability to shift due to weather. If the arrival slot is unsuitable due to weather at the designated time (mass arrival group is airborne) of the slot, then the mass arrival group should split up and arrive via the normal NOTAM procedure.
    EAA Process Improvements
    • Expand aircraft parking to the south and improve parking management strategies to maximize use of the space. By 2020, EAA will achieve a “no aircraft turned away” condition for general aviation camping parking, weather and ground water saturation concurring, and explore means (e.g., a potential reservation system or other incentives) to shift arrivals to days with lower volume.
    • An extensive educational campaign to highlight arrival informational tools, weather planning and preparedness, and best practices during arrival operations. Distribution will include a potential online training course (with incentives), Chapter Video Magazine, online webinars, EAA magazines, EFBs like ForeFlight, and other web resources. Member incentives for participation in training/education will be developed.
    • A text messaging arrival update tool for ATC that will be available to attendees.
    • Work with the FAA to create an overhead break protocol that enables ATC to determine if overhead operations can be authorized at any given time.
    • Encourage military aircraft to favor arrivals during air show waivered airspace times.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
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  10. Lowflynjack

    Lowflynjack Pattern Altitude

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    Click here to see the new proposed arrival gate.
     
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  11. Groundpounder

    Groundpounder Line Up and Wait

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    I just changed my reservation at the University for an arrival on Saturday the 20th, leaving on Tuesday the 23rd. I just now realized the official start date of the airshow is Monday the 22nd. Is there going to be anything going on there the 20th and 21st?
     
  12. Matthew Rogers

    Matthew Rogers Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Anyone from NY,CT, MA, PA want to fly out to camp at Oshkosh? I have a beautiful (ok old and cramped), young (fine, 1966), strong running C150 that I could use. I am close to KPOU.
     
  13. kyleb

    kyleb En-Route PoA Supporter

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    There is plenty to see. Arrivals, aircraft on the grounds, the museum, etc.
     
  14. Groundpounder

    Groundpounder Line Up and Wait

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    Ok good.
     
  15. Matthew K

    Matthew K Line Up and Wait

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    Can confirm I'll be at Oshkosh 2019 :). I get there Thursday and head back on Sunday.

    @eman1200 @Ryanb You guys gonna be there this year??
     
  16. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Undecided at this point.
     
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  17. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    To soon for me to call it as well.
     
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  18. Lowflynjack

    Lowflynjack Pattern Altitude

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    I probably already posted this somewhere in this thread, but my plan is to arrive Sat 7/20 and leave Sun 7/28. That of course depends weather. It also depends on if they have enough work to keep me busy. Last year we knocked out all of the air-to-air photography by the last Friday and I decided to head home due to storms along the way.

    I'll be wearing a bright yellow vest with EAA Photo and a giant number on the back and I'll let you guys know the number when I get there. I met a few of you last year and hope to meet more this year.
     
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  19. Matthew K

    Matthew K Line Up and Wait

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    Hoping to do the same!
     
  20. Groundpounder

    Groundpounder Line Up and Wait

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    Can anyone suggest a good spot to overnight in the central LP of Michigan? Cheap 100LL and a decent-ish hotel nearby are about all I require.

    Seems like Gladwin, MI might be a good option. KGDW
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019 at 3:46 PM
  21. DNHarris

    DNHarris Filing Flight Plan

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    Hope to make it this year. I'll likely be driving in and camping.
     
  22. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    @One Short used to be based there, but I don't know if she's around any more to share intel.

    There's a spot where there's two airports close to each other where one is the county airport and one is the city airport. I stopped at one of them, but I can't remember which one! :rofl: They had a good price on 100LL, free malts, courtesy car, and very friendly and helpful people. I would recommend it, if I could just remember which one it was... Maybe @EdFred can help me out here.
     
  23. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    You're thinking
    Clare: 48D - has the ice cream, courtesy car, allows camping/cooking on the field, and cheapish 100LL - currently $3.98/gal

    Clare County: 80D - never been there, and doesn't have anything that I'm aware of.
     
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