OshKosh 2008...what a mess...

docmirror said:
So, is there something wrong with the exhibitors or VIPs feet?
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Diana said:
At this point, for me OSH is about the people. I've done all the other stuff and I'm not looking for anything to buy. Well, except padding for my Hooker Harness and I couldn't find anything that would work.
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In high school, I understand the girls used tissue paper. Doesn't work anymore?:dunno:


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 
After 3 Airventures, I still haven't found much wrong with it other than what I always hate about any other large airshow or fly-in. I think most folks would agree on the basic gripes about these events:long lines, rude or clueless people, mediocre food at high prices, music you don't like, etc, etc. And if you're at an airshow to get good pictures of airplanes or clean audio on your videos... hooboy. :rolleyes: This year's "Thanks a Lot, Pal" award goes to the guy who turned away from the ropes at the flightline with his kid on his shoulders, and walked straight towards my camcorder lens, completely oblivious, as I was shooting The Shot of the Century (some departing aircraft; I haven't reviewed the tapes yet). Ruined it, of course. But I have no right to insist that everyone duck and slink away if they're leaving the viewing area, like at the movies (oh, right, people don't do that there anymore, either, do they?). Nor can any sane person expect "normal" people to shut up when a classic warbird is taxiing by and the guy next to them is obviously trying to capture sound as well as video- that's like asking them to shut up at the movies. Crazy talk.

Didn't really have a problem with the carts, etc... but yeah, I did see more of them. FWIW, I saw a lot of very courteous cart-driving, including more than one volunteer on a golf cart offering a ride to older folks on foot who were obviously marching off to the North 40.

A few of us got shooed away from the Warbird area because we'd come out there at sunset to look at planes without crowds around (and in the evening cool)... but the volunteer was super-friendly and gave us a lift back to the North 40.

The only bungle with the buses I saw was when the concert attracted a record-sized horde that was milling about the general area, wreaking havoc with the bus schedule. They were trying to mitigate the damage- I overheard a number of conversations on bus radios, etc. Made me glad I was on vacation and not responsible for sorting that out.
But lots of people were fuming, almost as badly as they do when they're stuck at the airport because of a mechanical problem. :rolleyes:

Other than that, when I needed a bus or tram, one came along soon enough, and I got where I was going.

I also walked- a lot. From row 527 on the south side of the runway to the ultralight area and back, more than once. Over to Friar Tuck's or the hot dog trailer and back to the campsite, more than once. It was no big deal. :dunno:
 
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Some comments as a many year attendee and first time exhibitor. Yes, the IOGC complaint is valid. The good news is that the new site plan for next year separates vehicular and pedestrian traffic. I was working with about 20 people who had never been to AV before. They were astounded by the level of organization, the cleanliness of the site and the good nature of just about everyone involved. Something like 130 committee chairs and 4,000 volunteers make it happen.
I was there for ten days including setup and tear down and worked twelve hours each day. I had a blast. Talking to hundreds of really interesting people each day made it fun.
 
etsisk said:
The kit mfgs are selling homebuilts that'll cost you an arm and a leg. There was an increased focus on g1000 level instruments. It was more and more about the NON-average joe buying a $100K airplane. The homebuilt parking didn't have the planes it used to have.
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The aircraft manufacturers make no secret about laughing at the "whistling gophers" -- you know, the guys who stick their heads in an airplane, whistle and say, "wow, what's this go for?" But for every 200 whistling gophers there's a buyer, and that's what makes it worthwhile for them.

Maybe once upon a time OSH was about the little guy. Now it's big business. The profits from the show go directly into the Pobereznys' pockets (yeah, I have a pretty good idea what that number is), and the vicious cycle grows ever meaner.
 
I thought being blasted down past the end of runway 36 while there was tons of empty space ahead was preposterous. First come first serve, or make a real reservation system. I saw a golf cart come to a campsite with one guy, and leave with two. The guy he picked up was neither old nor infirm, just connected. VIPs suck.

Ken, if what you're saying is true I will get a refund for my membership and I won't be back.
 
Ken, that's pretty disillusioning...

And, yeah, I did see the "affordable flying hangar"... that's what p*ssed me off in the first place! FOUR planes. Stuck in a little metal building off in the corner. And ALL the rest of the thing was about money, money, money and special, special, special people.

That's just not what it is supposed to be about, dammit. :mad: It's certainly not what it USED to be about. :rolleyes: :(
 
Jay Honeck said:
That is odd that they don't allow Segways, especially given that they were demonstrating them at OSH a few years ago, right after they came out.
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To be honest, I don't know that they don't, but since I haven't seen any there since that demonstration, I presume they don't. They wanted too much for a ride on one at the time to be worth it to me!
 
Segways are like bicycles - not allowed inside the grounds. I don't think they'd be reasonable replacements for the four-wheeled vehicles, most of which (as noted) had valid purposes. I'm looking forward to next year's separate vehicle/pedestrian paths, and hope it makes a difference.
 
There are some people who would complain the ice was too cold and the grass was too green...

The WB section and a few others were issued several factory new John Deere utility vehicles complete with rifle mounts and cargo racks. They were destined to be shipped to Iraq and Afghanistan after the first 100 hrs were put on them. The highest time unit in WBs at the end of the week was 40 hrs. The fatigue factor diminished by their use contributed to enhanced safety in moving planes immeasurably.
 
There were a few knobby tired Segways being used by law enforcement officers on the grounds during the week.

Jay Honeck said:
That is odd that they don't allow Segways, especially given that they were demonstrating them at OSH a few years ago, right after they came out.
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TMetzinger said:
Segways are like bicycles - not allowed inside the grounds. I don't think they'd be reasonable replacements for the four-wheeled vehicles, most of which (as noted) had valid purposes. I'm looking forward to next year's separate vehicle/pedestrian paths, and hope it makes a difference.
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Actually, they'd probably have been a reasonable replacement for Leslie's mobility cart, but I'll let her confirm or deny that. I'll certainly admit, though, that it would be a small portion of the attendees. Security forces, OTOH, are a different matter. We have them at Harper College, and it's a LOT faster for the police to get around with them. They use bicycles and foot patrols, too.
 
gprellwitz said:
Actually, they'd probably have been a reasonable replacement for Leslie's mobility cart, but I'll let her confirm or deny that. I'll certainly admit, though, that it would be a small portion of the attendees. Security forces, OTOH, are a different matter. We have them at Harper College, and it's a LOT faster for the police to get around with them. They use bicycles and foot patrols, too.
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I dunno, after having abdominal surgery, I'd think the last thing you'd want would be to require someone to stand and balance on a Segway. Definitely would be good for security/medic use though, as well as a more eco-friendly replacement for the small scooters used too.
 
I was at Oshkosh on Friday and Saturday. This was the first time I've been there, and I had a pretty good time. I thought that it had more of a state fair atmosphere. I had no idea how big EAA is, but they have to be huge to put on something like that. As far as John Deere, I saw Ford and Harley were there in force too. My wife commented on how they really seemed out of place there, but as it was, we didn't give them much more attention than that.

If I were to look for something to ***** about, it would be that the whole thing is so big, that the people at the vendors tables are just temps who don't know anything. For example, I wanted to see a Wag-a-bond, so I headed over to Wag-Aero, who I think was in hanger A, to see if they knew where one might be parked. There must have been ten kids handing out catalogs there. I talked to two college age kids who didn't even know what a Wag-a-bond was. They called another college age kid over who knew someone who had a Wag-a-bond, but didn't know if he was at the show or not. So, it isn't that big of a deal, but I never did see one, if it was there or not. Maybe it is too much to expect Wag Aero to know where all of their kit planes are. On the other hand, I randomly ran into the tent that has all of the vintage aircraft clubs, like the Luscombe Foundation, and I got to talk to Doug Combs. That was interesting.

The one thing about Oshkosh is that it is overwhelming. On Friday I started watching the airshow, and after the third or forth airplane was up there doing aerobatics, I was bored. I would have to say that after three o'clock, I was numb as far as airplanes were concerned. I was more interested in finding a Dove Bar than I was in looking at airplanes. Frankly, I would have liked a cold beer by that time on Friday. I did go to a seminar on "flying over fifty" on Friday, and it was interesting. I would have liked to have gone to a few more, but I was there with some friends, and they were not the seminar types. If I had not been tied to them, I would have probably taken in a couple of seminars on fabric work.

Saturday I was renewed in spirit, and started out the day taking as many pictures as I could, and buying T-shirts. Saturday was cooler, and I spent some time looking over the light sport aircraft that were on display all over the place. A lot of them look the same, and seem to be patterned off the cub. My wife couldn't tell the difference between them. I spent a a couple of hours in the afternoon out at the seaplane base. It was interesting, but there wasn't much action there. It was a cool and shady place to sit down, and there weren't any lines for food. One thing is the caps that Pilot Magazine was handing out. Those were nice hats, and they were throwing them out like candy at a parade. I ended up with enough hats to hand out to all of my friends back here at home, and I didn't even have to resort to trickery to get them. The young lady handing them out just asked me how many I wanted. I spent the last hour on Saturday sitting in the shade down by the ultralights, watching the planes leaving. It looked to me like they were launching them thirty seconds apart. That was cool.

So, I would say that over all, I had a pretty good time. It was worth effort, but I don't think that I will be going next year, but I will probably go back again sometime. The biggest thing to come out of it is that my my wife's birthday is today, and she asked for a couple of hours of dual for her birthday. That is interesting, as she has never wanted to have much to do with airplanes.
 
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I heard they're dropping a big chunk of money into making the traffic flow better next year.....pedestrian pathways and pathways for motorized vehicles, etc.

It was my first AirVenture experience and I was busy all day every day working with the CAF folks. In many ways the place is a logistical nightmare in terms of trying to organize meeting up with people. I was fortunate enough to have access to a golf cart much of the time....and I always picked up people walking the direction I was traveling - especially mommies with little kids or old folks. They appreciate the ride even if it's only for a few blocks. Likewise, when I was on foot, I was constantly being offered a ride by someone passing by. (Karma?? :dunno:) Lots of nice people there.

On the other hand, I was impressed with how efficiently they are able to handle such an enormous crowd - particularly in the camping areas....
 
Steve said:
There are some people who would complain the ice was too cold and the grass was too green...
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Dido, no one was forced to go, so if you don't like it, stay home! (not you Steve, the complainers)
 
Maxmosbey said:
I was at Oshkosh on Friday and Saturday.
The one thing about Oshkosh is that it is overwhelming. On Friday I started watching the airshow, and after the third or forth airplane was up there doing aerobatics, I was bored. I would have to say that after three o'clock, I was numb as far as airplanes were concerned. I was more interested in finding a Dove Bar than I was in looking at airplanes. Frankly, I would have liked a cold beer by that time on Friday.
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One thing about Airventure is that it has a cumulative effect on your psyche. At first, it's just like you describe -- overwhelming, and more like a state fair for airplanes. After 26 years we have developed a cadre of friends who we ONLY see at OSH, so it's truly like a homecoming every July. The people factor is a huge aspect of the Oshkosh experience for us.

Another thing that makes a huge difference is camping on the field versus driving in every day. We camped off-site for our first 15 Airventures, and *thought* we knew what Oshkosh was all about. Well, when we finally had an airplane, and were able to stay on the field, we discovered a whole new and different Oshkosh experience -- and I have to say it is vastly better.

I guess maybe it's the total immersion that staying on the field allows, or maybe it's just the simple time savings of not having to fight the traffic each morning and evening? Or maybe it's just the sense of "inclusiveness" that staying on the grounds lends? When you drive in you have to "enter" and "depart" each day, which means you're really not "in" yet, if you know what I mean?

I don't want to psychoanalyze it too much, but the experiences are so completely different that we've really drawn a line in our memories -- "before airplane" and "after airplane". Yes, we attended 15 before, but we've "only" flown in 11 times, and those feel like the "real" Airventures to us now.

But however you experience it, there's simply nothing else like it. We dream about it all winter long, and we never want it to end when we're there! If there really is a heaven, I hope it looks a lot like Wittman Field during the last week in July...
 
Looks like I need to spend a night at Alexis Park Inn. Nice to know that someone "gets it".

Airventure has become the family vacation. Time to renew old acquaintances and gain new ones. We've found a place within the event and have little need to engage in the clamor of the commercialized areas. It's interesting to see the new and fulfilling to appreciate the old. But to try to "do it all" would only be an excercise in frustration.

A few malcontents have no chance at dissuading us from participating. Everyone that visits has a story and the chance opportunities to hear them make the week a truly memorable experience. Some stories make you cry, some make you laugh, and some just make you wonder. I'm better for having met them, whether it be a pilot, co-worker, vendor or casual visitor.

You get what you expect. Occasionally you get more.

Jay Honeck said:
One thing about Airventure is that it has a cumulative effect on your psyche. At first, it's just like you describe -- overwhelming, and more like a state fair for airplanes. After 26 years we have developed a cadre of friends who we ONLY see at OSH, so it's truly like a homecoming every July. The people factor is a huge aspect of the Oshkosh experience for us.
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Steve said:
Looks like I need to spend a night at Alexis Park Inn. Nice to know that someone "gets it".
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I've done that twice now on the way to OSH and I'm glad I did. Neither time was planned. Jay took very good care of me and my airplane.

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showpost.php?p=330333&postcount=50

I view AirVenture the way that Jay does and I always will. It's a special experience with a few temporary inconveniences, but dang, it's worth it to me to be able to spend time with wonderful people in a wonderful place. Call me Pollyanna, but I prefer to see the best in the experience and the people who go there.
 
Ken Ibold said:
Maybe once upon a time OSH was about the little guy. Now it's big business. The profits from the show go directly into the Pobereznys' pockets (yeah, I have a pretty good idea what that number is), and the vicious cycle grows ever meaner.
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Care to back that up with evidence?

I've got the EAA's financials in front of me, including those for Airventure, and I sure don't see that!

I guess you must be privvy to some embezzling info!

I had an excellent time at Oshkosh. I think to truly experience it, you need to camp out and spend more than a day or two. The total experience involes all the people you meet and then fun you have with them. The guy I flew up with called it "The biggest gathering of the greatest people" and that is so true.

I got to meet some great people up there. Where else can you hang out with all these people in one place:


Golfer Arnold Palmer
www.leonardmack.com/gallery/oshkosh08/arnoldpalmer.jpg

Eric Lindberg, grandson of Charles Lindbergh
www.leonardmack.com/gallery/oshkosh08/ericlindbergh.jpg

Harrison Ford (Indiana Jones!)
www.leonardmack.com/gallery/oshkosh08/harrisonford.jpg

John and Martha King
www.leonardmack.com/gallery/oshkosh08/johnmarthking.jpg

Tom Proberenzy (Head of the EAA and son of the Founder)
www.leonardmack.com/gallery/oshkosh08/tomproberenzy.jpg


Sure, there are some flaws... every big event has them.

I'll be going back again next year.
 
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LeonardMack said:
I think to truly experience it, you need to camp out and spend more than a day or two. The total experience involes all the people you meet and then fun you have with them. The guy I flew up with called it "The biggest gathering of the greatest people" and that is so true.

Sure, there are some flaws... every big event has them.

I'll be going back again next year.
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Ken used to work for the organization.
 
Hey guys and gals, I've had a few beers, and finally got the darn axle under my boat trailer so I'm not so frustrated. To review, I had a few complaints, but overall I had a good time at Airventure. Others have confirmed some of my dislikes, and they aren't any deal breakers, just a thought.

The non-EAA folks I talked to were excellent, complementary and helpful. Paul from NC came in a motorhome, and after we got to yakking about Bo's he told me he was leaving the next morning and offered his small grill and some BBQ supplies for free. Sweet!. I tried to pay for it, but he wouldn't take it. Another guy came running out the shower partially clothed when I left my shoes in the shower room. Again, great help from the visitor folk.

I spoke with another guy, and he needs a part I've got and we're arranging a swap next week. The only thing I had issues with were minor, but annoying. I'll go back in five years or so, maybe more. Overall, it was fun. Sorry if my rants overwhelmed some posters.

Y'all have a nice day! :)
 
Diana said:
Call me Pollyanna, but I prefer to see the best in the experience and the people who go there.
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Some people want everything to be perfect, and they'll never be satisfied.

Some of us will do what we can to make things closer to perfect, but we can see the positive side of things well enough to enjoy ourselves.

I really don't care where the money goes. I can't sleep around a zillion cool airplanes and people for $20/night anywhere else... And I had a BLAST this year. :yes: I'll definitely be back next year!
 
Living only an hour and a half away, I prefer driving rather than flying into OSH during the show. My best experience this year occurred while sitting in the volunteer shack at Aeroshell square, getting out of the sun and chatting with the military guys. A gentleman sat down and after exchanging a few words, I noticed he had on a Tuskegee Airman shirt. Of course, I asked him if he had actually been one, and he said yes, he flew P-51C's in WWII (shooting down an FW-190), and also P-51D's in Korea, and then RF4's in Vietnam! Despite this experience, he was humble, warm, and a real gentleman- a lot different from some of the fighter pilots I know! He looked like he could jump into a plane today and take off, still fit and very sharp. It was an honor and privilege to have spoken even briefly with this gentleman.
 
I've met several WWII vets over the years and like you say, they were all humble and very proud. We are losing those good folks way to fast.

Thank you to all the vets of all the services from all time. :cheerswine:
 
AcroBoy said:
Living only an hour and a half away, I prefer driving rather than flying into OSH during the show. My best experience this year occurred while sitting in the volunteer shack at Aeroshell square, getting out of the sun and chatting with the military guys. A gentleman sat down and after exchanging a few words, I noticed he had on a Tuskegee Airman shirt. Of course, I asked him if he had actually been one, and he said yes, he flew P-51C's in WWII (shooting down an FW-190), and also P-51D's in Korea, and then RF4's in Vietnam! Despite this experience, he was humble, warm, and a real gentleman- a lot different from some of the fighter pilots I know! He looked like he could jump into a plane today and take off, still fit and very sharp. It was an honor and privilege to have spoken even briefly with this gentleman.
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That was Col. Charles McGee.....and he is all of those things you said and a hero....you can read about him in this recent Red Tail Project newsletter. Here is a picture I took when he was visiting Hangar 57 at Air Venture this year.
 

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