OshKosh 2008...what a mess...

[ddevillers]

E-tickets purchased in advance didn't work at first and I was the training guinea pig.

Could not get in to the young eagles award or leader training events. Free, but you needed tickets, but I could not get any online, but never any mention of limited seating, so I thought I could pick some up when I arrived, but they were 'sold out'. Problems with the e-ticket system again here.

Wanted to camp & park in vintage, but ended up deep in the south forty, row 122. We arrived Saturday 7/26 and taxied past many open 'reserved parking' spaces that never did fill in.

BUGS! Apparently they did not spray for bugs this year, and the mosquitoes were horrible!

Things were generally disorganized. Published schedules conflicted with posted schedules. The new bus transportation, while great, was all over the place. Drivers didn't know where to go, when to go, etc.

Amazing stuff on the grounds, great new products (The Bendix King Av8tor is a cool GPS, saw it for $650), weather was excellent, so this should have been a stellar year. Something is definitely wrong with the management of this event...

 

[Dave2]

Let me add, the bus service in the Nort 40 su**ed. I walk the mile form my site to the entrance gate more times than I cared to count and never saw a bus the entire time. Yes I did ride it a few times, but not very often. The trams were only slightly better. The WiFi hot spots in the Nort 40 were impossible to find, at least for me and everyone else I talked to. The one by the registration booth was found, but I really didn't feel like walking a few more miles for a connection.

Good news, only saw two bugs, on fly and one mosquito. Fly is now deceased and the mosquito left town when he saw what happened to the fly.

Saw the Avi8or and liked what I saw. MXWX folks just said "don't buy it" I think Garmin is paying them off. I've heard it is hard to see direct sunlight, but then I've heard so is a 396. MXWX also knew nothing about the weather hook up to the Avi8or although Honeywell did. The unit with weather sure would add a lot of wires to the mix, but I wouldn't let that be a show stopper.

 

[mikea]

The skeeters now are about normal. You shouldda seen the plague of biblical proportions we had a month or two back after the floods.

 

[ApacheBob]

There weren't many skeeters on Monday night. But they were out in force on Tuesday night. We camped at the Scholler woods. The Monday night movie was relatively skeeter-free. Tuesday was a different story.
Thursday night, I camped by Warbirds. The skeeters were not as heavy as Tuesday, but I was glad to have bug spray.

 

[CJones]

Well, that makes me feel a little better about not going this year.

Sorry to hear you had a less-than-spectacular trip!

EAA is the epitome of "grass-roots operation going global" and I think we're seeing some severe growing pains as the org. as a whole tries to play catch-up with technology and services. As more and more 'not so grassroots' type of people attend OSH (and it becomes more commercialized) EAA is forced to provide more extenuating 'services' to those individuals - no longer can they get by with "We'll provide grass for your tent (unless it rains), and usually warm hamburgers while you enjoy the airshow." Now they are being forced - by market demand - to provide such services as WiFi, transportation services, e-stuff, etc. Considering that this seems to be their first trip into the realm of e-services, I expect severe growing pains. It's hard to beta-test super-huge once-a-year events such as OSH. Hopefully they learn from their errors from this year and are able to implement adjustments by next year.

As for the bus situation -- I really don't know if this has anything to do with it, but a new law passed this spring/summer that restricts bus operator companies that receive federal funding from bidding on and operating 'on-demand shuttle' type of jobs. I know it has affected the company I work part-time for in Iowa, but I'm not sure if it is a federal reg or state only. If it is federal, that could have played a major part in EAA's ability to obtain adequate bus service for the event.

Oh well.. There's always next year.

 

[docmirror]

I wasn't going to bash EAA as I'm a new member, and just attended my first Oshkosh in 22 years. Having said that, here's my list of complaints.

Prices: Clearly, they are trying to get people to join EAA by their pricing structure. Fine, I can accept that. However, the admission prices have gotten way out of line for access to a lot of vendors, and finally, a nice airshow in the afternoon. The way I see it, the vendors should be paying ME to travel hundreds of miles to look at their new hardware and software. As for the airshow, you can see just as good for free at many military bases around the US each year.

Camping facilities: $20/night, min 3 night for a patch of grass, no water, no electric, community shower, porta-pottie, and bus service. Not much for your $20/night, but at least you were at Oshkosh.

NO credit cards at EAA facilities. This really made me angry. Oh sure, you could buy hats, tee shirts, etc and pay by CC, but what about meals? Ugh, complete hassle.

Access to the outside world. For $5 you can ride the bus into town. Once there, you can access anything that you can walk too. Unfortunately downtown Oshkosh is a wasteland. But, only a mile or so from the main gate is a Target, Subway, drug store, etc. Lots of things that people need when on the road. Nope, can't get there from here. They don't have any service to that. there was a bus to the outlet stores, but it was $3 and it ONLY went to the outlet stores where you could shop. Again, they should be paying me to go there.

"Special access vehicles": I wasn't allowed to bring a bike, scooter, mule, golf cart, or anything else. However, someone handed out the special access passes to just about anyone but the people who needed them. I was in the vintage area, and we had a non-stop parade of those golf carts and John Deer mules from 07:30 to 22:30 every day and night. Almost all of them were for the support people to get supplies around. Well, I counted for a 30 minute period and there were 26 carts that passed me, and only 3 of them had anything in but the driver and pax. They should make everyone walk. I'm not complaining about the actual trucks that supply the cafe, remove trash, supply water, etc. Just the 'Special Access' vehicles. They need to be eliminated.

Airshow moderator: this is at every airshow, and I hate it. IMO it adds nothing to the air portion of the event, and it's annoying to listen to. YMMV.

The trams were ok, but the bus service was horrible. Who decided to end the tram 5 blocks from the bus stop? Idiots.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

OK, I've gotta address some of these, 'cuz I just don't think it was that bad.

BUGS! Apparently they did not spray for bugs this year, and the mosquitoes were horrible!

As noted in the airventure forum - They don't ever spray. We just have an amazingly huge number of 'em this year. Tons of snow melt and tons of rain = standing water everywhere. (Just ask Jay! ) Standing water = Skeeters.

Let me add, the bus service in the Nort 40 su**ed.

I kind of agree, but...

I walk the mile form my site to the entrance gate more times than I cared to count and never saw a bus the entire time. Yes I did ride it a few times, but not very often.

I only really had to wait a long time once - And I was up in row 580, so walking wasn't really an option. I had enough blisters and aches just walking around the show.

The trams were only slightly better.

What was wrong with them? Again, in the entire week I think I only decided to skip the tram from the North 40 in twice.

The WiFi hot spots in the Nort 40 were impossible to find, at least for me and everyone else I talked to. The one by the registration booth was found, but I really didn't feel like walking a few more miles for a connection.

Now this one, I'll add to your complaint - The WiFi sucked. I was having issues, pulled up a sniffer. 5 base stations on only 3 channels, and even when the WiFi itself worked, the upstream connection was so packed it was almost worthless. But, they're trying... I'm sure it'll be better next year.

NO credit cards at EAA facilities. This really made me angry. Oh sure, you could buy hats, tee shirts, etc and pay by CC, but what about meals? Ugh, complete hassle.

I'm glad they don't allow credit cards for food (I don't know how you call those "EAA facilities," they're third-party). Can you imagine how bad the lines would be?

Access to the outside world. For $5 you can ride the bus into town. Once there, you can access anything that you can walk too. Unfortunately downtown Oshkosh is a wasteland. But, only a mile or so from the main gate is a Target, Subway, drug store, etc. Lots of things that people need when on the road. Nope, can't get there from here. They don't have any service to that.

Huh??? You must have missed the fact that they ran buses to Target and Pick'n'Save from the taxiway near the Hilton, for free.

"Special access vehicles": I wasn't allowed to bring a bike, scooter, mule, golf cart, or anything else. However, someone handed out the special access passes to just about anyone but the people who needed them. I was in the vintage area, and we had a non-stop parade of those golf carts and John Deer mules from 07:30 to 22:30 every day and night. Almost all of them were for the support people to get supplies around. Well, I counted for a 30 minute period and there were 26 carts that passed me, and only 3 of them had anything in but the driver and pax. They should make everyone walk.

I had a Gator once and a golf cart twice during the week, all for schlepping stuff. Since I had to pick them up before I went to pick up the stuff I was schlepping, it would have been just me. Just because you didn't see my stuff on it (yet) doesn't mean I was only using it to get out of walking...

Airshow moderator: this is at every airshow, and I hate it. IMO it adds nothing to the air portion of the event, and it's annoying to listen to. YMMV.

So stand away from the speakers. Or put in ear plugs. I do some of the airshows close enough to hear, and some away. While some of the stuff is annoying, some is quite educational, especially for those of us (and the general public) who don't know every single thing about warbirds and haven't been coming to the show for 20 years.

The trams were ok, but the bus service was horrible. Who decided to end the tram 5 blocks from the bus stop? Idiots.

You must be referring to the Bus Park? The only other place I switched between buses and trams was at the North 40 gate and that's all you had to do - Off the bus, through the gate, on the tram.

But, nobody's bitchin' will do any good here. Go complain to EAA.

 

[Diana]

OK, I've gotta address some of these, 'cuz I just don't think it was that bad.

Yea, me too.

I had water...just had to walk a little ways to bring it back to the camp. Electricity was available, just had to figure out how to maximize it long-distance. They could have used a few more buses, but I never had to wait that long as a rule. They added shelters for the tram stops and I never had to wait very long for a tram anyway. I bought a bike at the Goodwill store and it made it much easier to ride to the store and to the showers and the tie-down shack and to Friar Tuck's. After a few years of camping there you kinda figure out how to get around easier and utilize the services to your advantage.

Never stayed in the Vintage area...perhaps things are easier and more accessible in the North 40 than Vintage. Maybe that's why some vintage airplanes park in the North 40.

EAA DID listen to our complaints about ice at the North 40 last year and this year it was always available when the tie-down shack was open...that was a BIG improvement.

 

[Ken Ibold]

After working for EAA for a couple of years, I refuse to even join the organization any more. You have no idea.

 

[Diana]

After working for EAA for a couple of years, I refuse to even join the organization any more. You have no idea.

Well, I WAS a little disappointed that I had to pay for extra issues of the magazine with my article that I wrote for them for free, but maybe that's standard practice?

 

[Greg Bockelman]

I had some issues with the Trams. It needs to be made more clear that the trams don't overlap routes. In other words, you won't EVER see a blue tram on the yellow route. That sort of thing. Also, at each stop, a flag the same color as the tram should be mounted on the sign so people know which tram to watch for. But that is moot if people understand the routes don't overlap. One tram should be taken off of the red route and put on the yellow route. That route seems to need at least one more tram and the red route didn't need as many as they had.



Last but certianly not least, at both ends of the yellow route, where it meets up with the red and blue routes, the lines you need to be in to get on a particular tram need to be marked better. There always seems to be some confusion. Also, on basically the same subject, at the north end where yellow meets red, the line for the red bus needs barriers of some sort to keep people from cutting the line. If one isn't REAL aggressive, one could wait for several trams to go by before they get on a tram.

 

[Ken Ibold]

Well, I WAS a little disappointed that I had to pay for extra issues of the magazine with my article that I wrote for them for free, but maybe that's standard practice?

Nope. The only time I'd ever run into that before EAA was when someone wanted 200 copies. Must've had a lot of friends! Anymore, it's not the printing, it's the postage.

 

[John J]

For my wife ( first time for her) and I the tram routes and busses seemed confusing at first but by end of the first day we figured it out. We found since we had to carry posters for our book, water and everyday, we parked in the Red lot and the meet the red tram and it would take us close to where we needed to be. The lack of a tram/ buss connection to the museum and other points was a pain and that should be fixed.
On our breakfrom signing our book we would go to the area just south of the Vintage Red Barn and find a nice grassy area to view the show. One day we went to the Sea Plane Base and that so peaceful and great

All in all for it was a really nice week for us even with the long walks under the hot sun.

John J

 

[docmirror]

OK, I've gotta address some of these, 'cuz I just don't think it was that bad.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

But, nobody's bitchin' will do any good here. Go complain to EAA.

It wasn't that bad, but it could be better. I have complained to the EAA. Bitching here does me good, cause I get to rant, and only Chuck can stop me(he won't).

 

[n20junkie]

I wasn't going to bash EAA as I'm a new member, and just attended my first Oshkosh in 22 years. Having said that, here's my list of complaints.

Prices: Clearly, they are trying to get people to join EAA by their pricing structure. Fine, I can accept that. However, the admission prices have gotten way out of line for access to a lot of vendors, and finally, a nice airshow in the afternoon. The way I see it, the vendors should be paying ME to travel hundreds of miles to look at their new hardware and software. As for the airshow, you can see just as good for free at many military bases around the US each year.

Camping facilities: $20/night, min 3 night for a patch of grass, no water, no electric, community shower, porta-pottie, and bus service. Not much for your $20/night, but at least you were at Oshkosh.

NO credit cards at EAA facilities. This really made me angry. Oh sure, you could buy hats, tee shirts, etc and pay by CC, but what about meals? Ugh, complete hassle.

Access to the outside world. For $5 you can ride the bus into town. Once there, you can access anything that you can walk too. Unfortunately downtown Oshkosh is a wasteland. But, only a mile or so from the main gate is a Target, Subway, drug store, etc. Lots of things that people need when on the road. Nope, can't get there from here. They don't have any service to that. there was a bus to the outlet stores, but it was $3 and it ONLY went to the outlet stores where you could shop. Again, they should be paying me to go there.

"Special access vehicles": I wasn't allowed to bring a bike, scooter, mule, golf cart, or anything else. However, someone handed out the special access passes to just about anyone but the people who needed them. I was in the vintage area, and we had a non-stop parade of those golf carts and John Deer mules from 07:30 to 22:30 every day and night. Almost all of them were for the support people to get supplies around. Well, I counted for a 30 minute period and there were 26 carts that passed me, and only 3 of them had anything in but the driver and pax. They should make everyone walk. I'm not complaining about the actual trucks that supply the cafe, remove trash, supply water, etc. Just the 'Special Access' vehicles. They need to be eliminated.

Airshow moderator: this is at every airshow, and I hate it. IMO it adds nothing to the air portion of the event, and it's annoying to listen to. YMMV.

The trams were ok, but the bus service was horrible. Who decided to end the tram 5 blocks from the bus stop? Idiots.

Actually this was my 3rd show, and me and my fiancee agree 100 percent with everything you said. Especially the "Special Use Vehicles" that were EVERYWHERE!!!. They should limit the areas that these can go, and not just let them be everywhere.

I agree about the prices. I paid $340 to park my plane for the week in GAC and access to the vendors/members aircraft. That included a piece of county owned grass, and showers/porta potty service. The busses had a collection bucket so they wern't totally paid for by my admission.

The airshow was not nearly as good as it had been in years past, and I chalk it up to fuel prices keeping the big stuff on the show circuit instead of comming to a free to EAA showing.

I don't mind being a member, and rather like it. What is kind of annoying is that the other members working the show, treating some members badly. I worked the airshow security 3 years ago, and after being yelled at for not yelling at 2 year olds for being 2 inches over the line, I left half way through my shift.

I enjoyed the other campers in the North 40, and had a good time talking to vendors. But its the little things that will make my going to the show a once every 5 year thing instead of a every year event. The $3.50 hot dogs and $3.75 pepsi's don't help the issue.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

After working for EAA for a couple of years, I refuse to even join the organization any more. You have no idea.

I know there's a LOT of politics involved there, but they still seem to run a darn good show and I don't have to see the politics. Works for me.

 

[Jay Honeck]

I wasn't going to bash EAA as I'm a new member, and just attended my first Oshkosh in 22 years. Having said that, here's my list of complaints. <Big Snip>

Doc, I've been to every Airventure since 1983. I know the grounds, procedures, NOTAMs, restaurants, history, and surrounding areas like the back of my hand, and feel that I can give some perspective to your comments:

- Prices. For the first time I actually had to pay for TWO campsites this year, as my son flew our Ercoupe in and camped in Vintage, while we hunkered down out in the North 40 in our Pathfinder. Although not cheap, the privilege (and that's what it is, really) of camping in the middle of the largest aviation gathering in the world is worth it, in my opinion. And the prices really haven't gone up faster than inflation, ASFAIK.

- Trams. I thought they were terrific this year. Compared to prior years, we seldom had to wait, even at peak times. We were there all week, and rode them a lot -- but maybe it was just dumb luck on our part?

- Buses. The solution to riding the bus is to hike to the nearby Goodwill Store on your first day, and buy yourself a $15 used bicycle. We've done this for years, for all four of us, and it saves DOZENS of miles of walking (plus hours of waiting) in the North 40. At the end of the week you donate the bike(s) back, and take the tax write-off.

- "Service Vehicles". We call them "IGOCs" (Idiots In Golf Carts), and I complain about them to EAA every year. This year, rather than improving, they seemed to MULTIPLY, and now include gators and obese people riding around on motorized carts. We're not talking about a small problem here -- there were HUNDREDS of them.

Early in the week we just laughed and moved over when they ran up on our heels. By mid-week, we were openly hostile to them, but begrudgingly gave ground. By the end of the week, we simply refused to move -- period. I had one guy in a golf cart follow me all the way from Warbirds (on the North End) to Aeroshell Square -- but I wouldn't move, and neither would any of the dozens of "war weary" foot veterans around me. We'd all had enough, and that guy -- comfy on his padded seat -- simply had to wait for the rest of the unwashed masses.

Airventure is a pedestrian affair, and as such I am not allowed to bring my bike onto the grounds. These carts, gators, and motorized scooters have become a clear and present danger to all foot traffic, and SOMETHING is going to have to change. After nearly having my family run over half a dozen times, I became passively hostile to their presence, and remain unapologetic about this unfortunate situation.

Luckily, there IS hope. I glimpsed the "future AirVenture" plans, and the new layout for the grounds will include dedicated "cart paths", in an effort to separate people and vehicles. Now, if they include a bike path that runs parallel to Rwy 36, running from the North 40 to the South 40 (set back a block or two from the show line), they will REALLY have it licked.

- "Credit Cards" -- We used ours everywhere, but didn't want to use them at the food lines, which were already crazy-long at peak hours. Your best bet is to eat a big breakfast off the grounds (I recommend the Hilton buffet, or LeSeur's), have maybe a snack mid-day, and then eat dinner off the grounds. Friar Tucks and Charcoal Pit are highly recommended! (If you have access to a vehicle, Kodiak Jacks is very good, too.)

- Airshow Moderator -- Remember, these guys are there to educate the newbies in the crowd. Anyone who's been around aviation probably doesn't need one, but the rest of the folks who can't tell an Osprey from a Raptor probably do. I just ignore them. In fact, I don't even watch the daily airshow anymore, finding this to be the best time to cruise the exhibit hangars.

Oshkosh was outstanding this year, IMHO -- probably the best EVER. We experienced the best weather, the best arrival procedures, the best departure procedures, two great campsites, and some of the coolest aviation products ever displayed. Best of all, in a year when we all thought attendance would plummet, it may have actually gone UP -- so it's all good!

 

[John J]

- "Service Vehicles". We call them "IGOCs" (Idiots In Golf Carts), and I complain about them to EAA every year. This year, rather than improving, they seemed to MULTIPLY, and now include gators and obese people riding around on motorized carts. We're not talking about a small problem here -- there were HUNDREDS of them.


Jay;

My bride and I found that it was really hard to walk on the paths with all the "Scooters" running around. We found that we were being pushed off the walk with folks in a hurry so we took many side paths or just walked on the grass. We had to carry in quiete a bit of stuff for our book signings and with these numbers of carts and scooters it was safer to be on the trams as much as possible. They even would drive these things into the Wear House buidling. Interesting is that many of the people who were on these things were much younger than us. One scooter drove into the Skyshop and got stuck in a book case. Yup he wasn't looking. YIKES.

The last time I went to the show was 8 years ago and I really do not remember all of these gators, carts and scooters. Like you said it Oshkosh is really a place for walkers and a good tram/bus system.

John J

 

[docmirror]

Jay, thanks for all the, uh - advice.

 

[Steve]

I'd have to concur with that. In 10 years of volunteering this was the first time the wx was not a problem (although I got word there was a storm Sunday evening after the show). Aircraft count in WB area was over 400, highest in recent memory.

I even had dinner with Greg & Sharon & Pete & Tony during the week! Can't get any better than that! (well, the ride with the AeroShell team was pretty good, too...)

Rumor has it the airport will be enclosing the area between the main exhibit buildings in the near future. That should cut down on the vehicular traffic in that area.

.
.
.
Oshkosh was outstanding this year, IMHO -- probably the best EVER. We experienced the best weather, the best arrival procedures, the best departure procedures, two great campsites, and some of the coolest aviation products ever displayed. Best of all, in a year when we all thought attendance would plummet, it may have actually gone UP -- so it's all good!

 

[TMetzinger]

My tenth year this year, and I thought it was one of the best. The only complaint listed earlier that I agree with is the IGOCs. In my opinion the only motorized vehicles on the show grounds should be those used by the staff/volunteers needed to keep the show running smoothly. Everyone else should either walk or be in a wheelchair, as you can see most of the stuff in a standard wheelchair. I'd even be ok with a powered wheelchair for folks, but the golf carts need to go. The only time I ever had a motor at OSH was when I drove a homebuilder's welcome wagon, and even then we tried (and mostly suceeded) to stay off pedestrian paths.

Thank goodness the food vendors are cash only. And there are ATM's available if you didn't bring enough cash.

I was there from Thursday-Sunday this year and I gotta say it was the best weather ever.

 

[gprellwitz]

Well, after seeing all the comments about "IGOCs", I have to respond. This year for the first time we had to make use of one. Leslie's still recuperating from abdominal surgery, and if it hadn't been for the availability of those mobility carts, she wouldn't have been able to attend at all. We were in a quandry about where to drive it. Should we use the road or the pedestrian path? In one case, we'd be in the way of the faster vehicles (her cart was REALLY slow), and in the other we'd be amongst the pedestrians, creating a hazard there. Plus, her being on the cart meant that I wasn't able to take advantage of the trams. So I like the solution that Jay's reporting, a separate cart path. As long as the mobility carts don't have the Gators roaring up on them. Those Gators can really move!

 

[mikea]

Well, after seeing all the comments about "IGOCs", I have to respond. This year for the first time we had to make use of one. Leslie's still recuperating from abdominal surgery, and if it hadn't been for the availability of those mobility carts, she wouldn't have been able to attend at all. ...

You got it wrong, Grant. You and Leslie should have taken the time to print up 250,000 copies of an informative note from her doctor saying she was recovering from surgery so you could hand that out to every person there who otherwise was making snap judgments about the sight of a young lady on a scooter.

Add that the cart cost $150 for the day so they knew how cheap it was for you.

I think the consensus here is that the things should be banned. Let those people on them just writhe in pain while attempting walking, or better yet just keep their old and fat lazy a*s out of sight entirely while others go running by with their assumptions about their superiority intact.

 

[n20junkie]

While I agree that there are some people that need carts, it wasn't the "larks" for lack of a better term that was the problem. Although I know of a few people that didn't need them that paid for the ease of travel, different story all together. The real issue was the big carts. The golf carts, gators, 4 wheelers, scooters, and various other things that made the paths seem more like roads. Me and the Fiancee were just totally fed up with having to move every 5 seconds for them. Your body hurts enough without having to dodge traffice and stress your knees and ankles with the quick changes in direction. This was the first year that I rode the tram all the time. It was too much of a pain to deal with the traffic. If every NTAC can get a cart, than dammit I will find a way to get one. And I think thats whats happening, they see how nice the carts are, so everyone trys to justify a way to get one. Next year we are deff bringing bikes.

 

[gprellwitz]

Now, if only they'd allow Segways!

 

[mikea]

Now, if only they'd allow Segways!

I was wondering about Segways. I was trying to think of a more fashionable way of getting around.

I'll hafta ask sometime. I have the feeling that Segways will be welcome as soon as the company a) signs up as an AirVenture sponsor and b) supplies 250 of them.

 

[John J]

AirVenture is a great place for Segways or some other get around system and the tram. The price has to be right for I saw that rentals were 60 a day for a scooter which is not good for range at OSH.
Yes my bride and I helped some poor sole who ran out of "juice" far from a plug in. Not a pretty picture. We got him close to an outlet so he could charge up and get him home. I was so happy to see him get to where he needed to be.

John J

 

[etsisk]

I reckon my problem with OSH this year - and I do have one - lies more in the change in focus of the thing. It used to be about the average joe building and flying affordable aircraft - and by affordable, I mean $10K - $20K... or less. The fly market had pieces and parts, LOTS of hardware, and was pretty much all about building, with the occasional non-aviation booth. That's flipped, now, with 6 vendors showing COOKING products, generator vendors, gator vendors, t-shirt vendors, and... the occasional aviation booth.

The kit mfgs are selling homebuilts that'll cost you an arm and a leg. There was an increased focus on g1000 level instruments. It was more and more about the NON-average joe buying a $100K airplane. The homebuilt parking didn't have the planes it used to have. I heard of a girl who wanted to see Jeff Dunham, and got herself a good seat and sat in it all day long to make sure she was up front. And 45 minutes before the show, they booted everyone out of the first 9 rows and "reserved" them for, I reckon, "special" people... Friends of EAA, I guess. By that time all the seats in back were also taken, so she didn't get much of a view of the show at all.

It's just not about the little guy anymore - when it ought to be mostly about the little guy.

 

[n20junkie]

I agree, the focus is no longer on the home builder, with the exception of the ultralights, which still tip the scales at over 10k. Really, how many average people will buy even a bottom of the barrel cessna 162 at over 110K when a 150 can be had for 15k. The new cessna still has a CARBURATOR, come on, thats just insane when every car on the road has EFI. I think the show is about the wealthy, cause I know that in my life time, I will never be able to afford anything but the cookware set in the fly market.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

The real issue was the big carts. The golf carts, gators, 4 wheelers, scooters, and various other things that made the paths seem more like roads.

Folks,

As an "IGOC" driver, I've gotta give you the other side of the story. We had to move a large amount of equipment (1 trip to Scholler, 1 trip to parking, 1 trip to the North 40) to provide some entertainment to a forum full of people and whoever was listening to EAA Radio for two hours on Friday. (End of airshow to beginning of Lt. Dan Band). For half of those legs, I didn't have anything aboard but myself and I'm sure you all were looking at me and hating me, but as much as my feet needed the break, that's not why I had the Gator.

It's actually quite difficult to get a Gator or golf cart, so I'm sure that most of them are necessary to accomplish one of the MANY productive and helpful forums, events, and exhibits that we all go to OSH for. And there shouldn't be much of a problem - Look before you cross the roads. The Gators and carts are NOT supposed to be using the pedestrian paths (and I never saw one doing so), so there shouldn't be so much of a conflict.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I reckon my problem with OSH this year - and I do have one - lies more in the change in focus of the thing. It used to be about the average joe building and flying affordable aircraft - and by affordable, I mean $10K - $20K... or less.

Uh, Tom... You must have missed the brand-new "Affordable Flying Center" on the grounds this year, that showcased ONLY aircraft in the 10K-30K range along with seminars on how to find such aircraft and make sure they aren't going to require a ton of maintenance and such.

You're right, OSH started for the little guy, but really, OSH is now about EVERYTHING. The only thing you DON'T see at OSH is the larger bizjets. (I still didn't see Gulfstreams or Learjets around). But if you ARE the little guy, there's plenty for you to see and do! The problem is just finding it all before the show is over!

 

[Diana]

You're right, OSH started for the little guy, but really, OSH is now about EVERYTHING.

At this point, for me OSH is about the people. I've done all the other stuff and I'm not looking for anything to buy. Well, except padding for my Hooker Harness and I couldn't find anything that would work. Oh, and a cool coffee mug...couldn't find one of those either...you'd think someone would be selling those.

I wonder if people are expecting too much from such a huge event where a gazillion people are living and eating together and trying to get around a large area. Sure it's inconvenient, but the way I see it, it's only several days out of the year when things aren't convenient. So, I try to plan ahead and do the best I can to get around and stay dry. Plus, it helps to have a friend with a car.

 

[docmirror]

Folks,

As an "IGOC" driver, I've gotta give you the other side of the story.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And there shouldn't be much of a problem - Look before you cross the roads. The Gators and carts are NOT supposed to be using the pedestrian paths (and I never saw one doing so), so there shouldn't be so much of a conflict.

Kent, I know you're a nice guy. I don't hate anyone. But I call BS on this. I was in row 63 just north of the Hanger cafe, and right on the end of the row so I had a great view of the traffic. The taxi-across to the vintage spots was right in front of me. 98% of the motorized traffic had ONLY people riding around in them. Discounting the fuel truck, and the supply and waste trucks all the other vehicles weren't carrying diddly. In fact, I had a bunch of them drive right up to the front of my plane and look it over. Some complimented me on it from the seat of the Gator or cart.

They drove on the ped paths, the grass in front of the paths, the taxiways, streets, into the square, and even in the big lettered hangers. The fact that John Deere was a huge vendor didn't help much. I'm sure they offered them for use for a very low fee, or discounted sale price. The golf carts were worse, they didn't make any semblance of carrying anything but fat, old, farts around the grounds.

 

[mikea]

At this point, for me OSH is about the people. I've done all the other stuff and I'm not looking for anything to buy...

Ditto. People watching is one the best things to do at Oshkosh.

I walked through the exhibit buildings and couldn't find anything I was interested in that I hadn't gotten already. So sad.

That is very different from immediately after I bought the plane when I had to have EVERYTHING.

... Well, except padding for my Hooker Harness and I couldn't find anything that would work. ...

This what you're looking for? I bought these to put on the straps of my too-heavy backpack.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CAINT8/tag=thepilotcast-20

 

[Diana]

This what you're looking for? I bought these to put on the straps of my too-heavy backpack.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CAINT8/tag=thepilotcast-20

Why yes, it is! Thanks Mike.

 

[Diana]

The golf carts were worse, they didn't make any semblance of carrying anything but fat, old, farts around the grounds.

I saw a lot of young slender women driving them too. I rode with one of them to fetch something out of the warehouse one day.

 

[mikea]

Kent, I know you're a nice guy. I don't hate anyone. But I call BS on this. I was in row 63 just north of the Hanger cafe, and right on the end of the row so I had a great view of the traffic. The taxi-across to the vintage spots was right in front of me. 98% of the motorized traffic had ONLY people riding around in them. Discounting the fuel truck, and the supply and waste trucks all the other vehicles weren't carrying diddly. In fact, I had a bunch of them drive right up to the front of my plane and look it over. Some complimented me on it from the seat of the Gator or cart.

They drove on the ped paths, the grass in front of the paths, the taxiways, streets, into the square, and even in the big lettered hangers. The fact that John Deere was a huge vendor didn't help much. I'm sure they offered them for use for a very low fee, or discounted sale price. The golf carts were worse, they didn't make any semblance of carrying anything but fat, old, farts around the grounds.

John Deere doesn't do anything other than supply the Gators. EAA owns the golf carts and the VWs. The various divisions of EAA/Airventure decide who can check out vehicles for how long.

Any fat old farts you saw on golf carts were exhibitors or V.I.Ps. The rest were the the nephew/niece patrol.

 

[docmirror]

I saw a lot of young slender women driving them too. I rode with one of them to fetch something out of the warehouse one day.

They were outnumbered by the old farts by 20:1. Which brings me to another rant. Ladies, or women if you prefer. You are CAMPING. Eye liner, mascara, blush, false lashes, nail polish, etc is a no-go. Ok, if you have a camper, motorhome with private bathroom, do what ever you like. I didn't need to see them putting on gobs of makeup at the outdoor wash stands.

Incoming!!!!

 

[docmirror]

John Deere doesn't do anything other than supply the Gators. EAA owns the golf carts and the VWs. The various divisions of EAA/Airventure decide who can check out vehicles for how long.

Any fat old farts you on golf carts saw were exhibitors or V.I.Ps. The rest were the the nephew/niece patrol.

So, is there something wrong with the exhibitors or VIPs feet?

 

[Diana]

Which brings me to another rant. Ladies, or women if you prefer. You are CAMPING. Eye liner, mascara, blush, false lashes, nail polish, etc is a no-go. Ok, if you have a camper, motorhome with private bathroom, do what ever you like. I didn't need to see them putting on gobs of makeup at the outdoor wash stands.

You sure do have a lot of rules and rants.